Forum - View topicDoes The Original Pokémon Hold Up?
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Villain-chan
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B4 I respond to the stuff in the quote, let me also add to what Juno said. Even with BW series (the series where Ash was a baka, aka worst series in the anime saga), despite the change to Ash (Satoshi), tere were plenty of call backs to past events in the series. We got to see the usual old gang (Human and or Pokemon) Ash may've talked about a past mon, and we typically get to see his room which includes a brief glimpse of everything he'd won (badge, trophy, symbol etc. etc.), and just other thigns I can't recall that show u the continuity is there and not a reboot. The prob is, With BW the announcer straight up said Ash is a 10 year old... this conflicted with the Pikachu Xmas specials where Xmas came at least once if not twice, conflicted with an episode in the MAIN SERIES where Santa and team Rocket were involved (Though, I am not sure if it was Xmas in that ep... just as a disclaimer) and conflicted with Movie 3's Pikachu & Pichu short where at the end Pikachu and gang make it back to their trainers and the party their trainers were throwing for everyone. What was the party for? "Ash" Do you know what day today is? Pikachu: ? Ash: Its the 1st anniversary of when we met. We wanted to throw a party for everyone. Pikachu: Pika! :D" Naturally its been years since I watched it so thats not word for word likely, but, it was for sure at least the 1st ann of when Ash and Pikachu met. Now u add that into the fact that Ash, by the end of BD saga but b4 the start of BW, had matured a LOT, gone to a total of 5 regions (Becus the Orange Islands is a region too) and all that land and sea and sky/water etc. to traverse, simply cannot be traversed in less than a year. Much less on FOOT! So this here brings us to BW where the announcer said "10 year old Ash" and combine that with Ash being made into a baka, and maybe (I forget) many eps where not much if any continuity was shown and that explains the reboot. Lastly, 2 more points, even in the NEWEST SERIES airing right now, a camera lady in both the English Dub and Japanese Dub called Ash/Satoshi 10 years old... and at THIS POIT he has covered 8 regions, seen some of the 9th region being Galar, matured a lot (and in some ways with this season, regained some of his childish nature that he had in the OG series...), caught many mons, battled a bunch and so on and the CHERRY ON TOP? Someone got pregnant in Alola (The last series b4 the currently airing series) and in this series, despite a year STILL not having passed... the lady who was pregnant gave birth and Ash met that very baby and ady again... It doesn't help that while (At least in the English Dub, not sure about the Japanese Dub) Ash remains 10, other characters look like they might 2-3 years older and also have matured considerably too (PRIME example is Iris who was a child herself, less so now that she is the Unova Champion). But despite this, the continuity is still there and this series also features going back to meet people, Pokemon and places (Including the OG Mewtwo as Genesect movie gave us a 2nd Mewtwo) And the 2nd point is that, becus the show ALWAYS has Ash ditching his past mons (Who may get brought back to battle or just be seen once in a few blue moons by Ash when he visits them) to start a new journey in another region with that regions' new Pokemon, combiend with everything else already said, this is why people are quick to call em reboots but they are not reboots. So to conclude, at BEST u could say each Ash (Or at least since BW Saga) is from a dif multiverse which was a confirmed thing with Alola, but started in Kalos and ORAS (Game remake of gen 3's RS games) but even then they have continuity to em and besides Ash staying 10 and besides Ash's personality, maturity and actions being more or less mature/smarter/dumber, there isn't anything I can think of that says this is a reboot for sure. At best u could say its reboot like but even then thats not really accurate to whatever this is. Am sure the Japanese has a better term for it to better describe this for a genre that the Pokemon anime pulls with these "reboot like" stunts they pull each new series. As for the my response to the quote above, while thats true for a very small amount of Pokemon, almost every Pokemon isn't being forced to do something against their will. This was addressed numerous times throughout the medium as a whole. (I dunno about the manga, as I don't read the manga but wouldn't doubt it if it was addressed there too) Pokemon just want to make those who catch them happy so they willingly in almost all cases do whats asked of them, whether thats good or bad thats asked of them. Naturally, this including battling. Most Pokemon are built for battling and by that, I mean its what they do even b4 being caught. (E.g. Defending their territory or others from other Pokemon or humans even) I'd be a fool to not mention the BW1 video games when we've talked about the BW anime series. These video games straight up had a group called Team Plasma trying to free Pokemon from trainers. They resorted to peace talks and even at times STEALING the Pokemon. I will not say much more becus the games are really good for their story, perhaps the best there is in the main series games but i can say this much, the Pokemon don't need to be freed in most cases. (Barring if their trainer is not a good trainer, then yes they need to be freed) The only issue with BW1 games is, it has the worst Pokemon designs to date and did not help that thats ALL u could catch till the post game was Gen 5 Pokemon. It was a nice breath of fresh air, but really the designs of most of the mons held it back and not helping is that a LOT of the Pokemon... were based on the OG gen 1 Pokemon. So Swoobat is Zubat, Sawk and Throh are Hitmonchan/Lee, Klink line is Magnemite line etc. and thats an even bgger insult when the designs are worse than the OG... Edit: As for ur mention of Orang Islands video game... actually the Alola reion in SM/USUM is basically that. No Lapras involved, no gym badges to earn (Instead u get WORTHLESS AND LAME IMO Stamps of the 4 Island's Guardians) but the Alola region had 4 islands with 4 stamps like orange Islands did, instead of Pink pokemon we got regional varients. We got trials just like Ash had to do (albeit not the ones Ash had to do which is a shame as thsoe woulda beena lot more fun imo) b4 he could face the gym leader to earn a badge (Stamp here sadly though u had to pass many trials b4 u could face the true "Gym leaders" in the games to win those stamps) and just other thigns that Orannge Islands had that Alola did. So, if u really want a close exp. to that, play Sun or Moon if u care more about the story and conenctions to charcters, if u care more about the game play and challenge then get US or UM. (Sadly USUM RUINED the conenction to lillie that the OGs had... and also changed someone too cus its set in a dif universe than the SM games were but thats the case for every Pkmn game, vers inclouded as they're all dif universes, same deal with save files and such) Basically, SM/USUM are almost the same game but the story at around the 80ish% mark takes a VERY dif turn from how the OG SM did it, while also ruining ur moments with lilie and changing the ending completely from the OG.But has the better challenge and better gameplay. I like both, but can't go back to the OG SM cus of how much better (Imo) the challenge and gameplay is in the Ultra vers. (And that sucks cus i really enjoyed the story that the OG SM told, esp Lillie) At this point am just fan girling here lol, I've given up hope of ever getting a game with the Orange islands, but, thankfully SM/USUM gave us something close enough so am ok with not getting it but hopefully if they ever do this again, hopefully they give us badges instead of stamps and hopefully the trials are better. But, for SURE keep those boss battles, loved the Totem Pokemon and depending on what team u have, it'll make some Totems easier than others to beat. (I should know as i burnt myself out for over a year on Alola games cus I played through S, M, US AND UM... 4 playthroughs in total with 4 dif teams...) and I kid u not when i say, the totem Pokemon were legit boss battles, unlike the Gym leader, E4 and Champion battles where they don't feel like bosses. |
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Seiya0890
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I actually don't  , what was wrong with XY ? Except losing at the end.
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Villain-chan
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The only other thing I can think of that they could be referring to is Ash releasing his spoiler[Greninja... which WAS a poor decision esp when Ash-Greninja form can't be maintained unless Ash is nearby... which was the entire reason Zygard wanted it in the 1st palce so, poor writing right there. (It needed it to help the region recover)] |
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Seiya0890
Posts: 185 |
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Well I still don't understand what was the poor decision lmao since you seem ok with what happened. spoiler[Btw I am big Sato X Serena Shipper, I don't know if you hang out on Amourshipping reddit, but the kiss was on the lips and it was kinda officially confirmed. It was for me the best part ahah. I am sad about grenninja though. Serena made her first return on JN105, it was discussed a lot on reddit. ] |
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Rob19ny
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But you got it right. |
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PurpleWarrior13
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Honestly, I only care about the Pokémon anime until Misty left, and I never had much desire to watch anything after that point. Maybe if the show ever has a proper conclusion, I’ll check that out. It was never high art, but the original series was a lot of fun. I could just never commit to something as long as this.
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Dr. Wily
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I feel like they could stop the anime and retire Ash, but they probably won't. They'll obviously have some kind of anime forever since the games won't ever end and the anime's a great 30 minute ad, and since Pikachu's not gonna stop being the mascot, why not keep the most famous Pikachu trainer and Pikachu as the lead? I'd say the greatest counterargument would be that they should just get a new lead every season (which is to say every time a new series of games comes out) but I think people like the continuity. New fans don't mind not watching every episode (at least I don't think, I liken it to how I like reading Batman comics despite not having gone back and read all of them since the 30s), and old fans feel a sort of comfort at knowing good ol' Ash is keepin on keepin on.
What I'm saying is Ash will finally quit when Luffy gets One Piece or when Detective Conan finally gets aged back up, which is to say after we're all long dead 
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gcapeletti
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I always fail to see the point of a "does blabdiblah hold up?". It is a quarter-of-a-century-old show (jeez, i'm old too) that feels weird today, obviously. But let's add a pile of anachronistic assumptions to "prove" our point. Reminds me of a review of Crusher Joe, here on ann: oooh, it's bad because it's old.
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Juno016
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You might want to revise this statement soon. One Piece just passed a moment indicating it's going to be moving onto its final arc soon. Lol That said, the Pokemon anime has been struggling in general TV ratings thanks to streaming services growing in Japan, so while I have my doubts about them replacing him, I also wouldn't put it past them to end the series at this world tournament. They've done weirder things with the anime before. |
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Top Gun
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The thing to remember about Pokemon is that at the end of the day it's a show targeted at the 10-and-under crowd with the intention of getting them (read: their parents) to buy more games and card packs. It's a big step down even from your young-teen-targeted shonen properties, which while they're also ostensibly designed to help sell manga volumes and merch can still be paired with compelling stories and great character writing. Pokemon's just not built to do that by its nature, and that's okay. Now I'm not saying that older viewers can't still partake in it and enjoy it, but I do think there have to be certain expectations. Just looking back at this thread and seeing some people delve into these ridiculous minutiae of consistency and it's like, my dudes, this is not what this franchise is going for. You're still allowed to like it anyway though! You see the same thing pop up for the games, with older gamers decrying that the series is getting "too casual/kiddie" while ignoring the fact that it was always aimed at that audience instead of trying to target the hardcore tournament scene.
All of that being said, does the original portion of the Pokmeon anime "hold up" in any sort of critical sense? Probably not. But I also know that I'd gladly watch a bit of it today, because it'd be a massive nostalgia kick. I was on the older end of its intended audience when it exploded here, but even so I got into it just like everyone else, and it would take me back to a far simpler time. (Plus like a lot of other folks, Misty was probably my first Best Girl. >_>) |
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Juno016
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The point you made about consistency for a long-running, less-plot-driven kids' show works, but Pokemon in its most recent iterations is the most heartfelt and character-driven the show has ever been in its history. I was watching a few episodes today with a friend and we both cried in two separate episodes because of how deeply it made us care for some one-off side characters, on top of its main cast's consistent development across the series. Also, trauma and grief over death is starting to become a common theme that used to happen more rarely and more subtly, if at all, in past seasons. In the end, it is just a kid's show, but I'm really liking its writing as it matures. For the most part, people who have been complaining about the series lately have either been upset about the lack of a singular adventure (which would make investing in watching every episode more tangible), or the lack of thematic coherency (it will jump from a pure comedy parody, to a sad grief episode, to a basic "solve this problem" episode, all one after another with little hint of what it's doing next, and not every episode is exciting). The episodic nature just has less staying power than the old adventure style nature. |
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Cardcaptor Takato
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On the flip side you have brands like Digimon and Yugioh that have alternate universe canons but people still only care about the original Adventure and Duel Monsters and rarely bother to check out the other entries aside from maybe Tamers if you're lucky and Toei continues to keep milking Adventure for all it's worth. So while older fans might complain about the anime still keeping Ash the same, they're probably onto something to keep it going for this long.
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Thatguy3331
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The question of whether or not Ash will actually leave the anime because it is genuinely a 50/50 possibility. Like the video mentions Ash is currently trying to battle the "best battler in the world" literally how can anything else after that top it as a narrative premise regardless of it's execution? That said this is also the pokemon anime and it would be foolish to pretend that this show always cares 100% about what would make the most narrative sense. Besides Pikachu is like the most recognizable thing about any given anime season and getting rid of Ash means getting rid of Pikachu as well. Just how asinine would it be to get some new character only to shoe horn some pikachu in the cast somewhere every single time just because we kinda need a link for more casual people to know that this is, in fact, pokemon?
The anime, as a whole, is no masterpiece by any stretch, but as time has gone on it's gotten to the point where most people seem to treat it as the greatest blight to ever be created by man with Ash being the "worst character of all time™️" and I've been around long enough to watch the show casually as a kid, a bit as a pre teen, have my own disappointments with the show to buy into every criticism of the anime full sale no matter how justified it was or not, to now, where, I'm just kind of over it. That is, over acting like this show is the worst thing on earth with 0 redeeming qualities, because flawed as it is it really wasn't *that* bad. I definitely appreciate the first series being this way with Ash as it makes things like him winning the alola league and being in something like the PWC feel like these significant achievements rather than the inevitable win the MC was always destined to achieve. It certainly didn't handle it perfectly with the wonk ass rules, but when it comes to the human reactions and emotions of it all I think it lands pretty well. I do also appreciate just that slight bit of edge the kanto series had as the anime would get increasingly more sanitized as it went along over long stretches (though it would have it's own moments of darkness and edge to it as well, it just feels like a different sort of edge) anyway sun and moon is my favorite season and if it weren't for it I definitely wouldn't be having anything remotely close to an interest of watching the pokemon anime currently 
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Aster97
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Very nice article
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