Forum - View topicI smell Hollywood.
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Animan
Posts: 65 |
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"The 1998 film Lost in Space was inspired primarily by the TV series Lost in Space, which first aired in 1965 and predates both the Black Hole and the original Yamato series."
Heh! You tell 'em, Tenchi! No need for me to reply now (you beat me to it), so now I think all that's left for me to do is just go and take a nap (and don't anybody wake me). |
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Tenchi
Posts: 4510 Location: Ottawa... now I'm an ex-Anglo Montrealer. |
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Not that I was denying the possibility that the 1998 film version could have been influenced in some small way by Star Blazers or the Black Hole, however, I thought the Black Hole ripped-off a lot more from the Lost in Space TV series than the Lost in Space movie ripped off the Black Hole, a very insignificant movie in the grand scheme of things compared to Star Wars, or the TV series Battlestar Galatica or even Space 1999. The Black Hole is about the most non-influential American sci-fi film I can think of, except for maybe Heartbeeps. |
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anime uncut
Posts: 111 Location: United States |
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The original "Hole In Space" was a film based on a short story in the 30s.
Competing with Jules Vern's "20.000 Leagues Under The Sea" and "Rocket Man", it never had a chance. In the 40s, the "short" was remade with the name "Vacuum In Space", but it still stunk. In the 50's, it became a cult classic as "The Black Hole", which inspired the name of the compressed sun. Color was later added to the hole when Disney took over in the '60s. Disney reshot some scenes in the '70s with a more photographic look to the scratchy pictures from space, and enhaced the color and music. New actors were brought in for the added scenes that were lost the first time around. "T.R.O.N." was filmed in 1998 and premered in limited releace in 1981, and public releace in 1982. IMDB is only concered with when it was publicly releaced. "The Last Starfighter" was filmed in 1980 and premiered in 1982. It was restored to its original color with an enhanced soundtrack and had thanks audio in 1984. The "Lost In Space" movie, first debuted as a "short" in the '40s under another name. It was remade as "Lost In Space" in the '50s. That movie was rereleaced (unedited in "tecnocolor") in the '60s. It later became the pilot for a new TV series. The series debuted in the 60s with "Bewitched" and "Batman" as chief competitors. |
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Tenchi
Posts: 4510 Location: Ottawa... now I'm an ex-Anglo Montrealer. |
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Okay, I'll do this movie-by-movie because otherwise I'd time out.
According to this page, solely concerned with TRON, TRON was conceived as a traditionally animated film by Steve Lisburger in the mid-70s. In 1978, he set up a studio in Venice, California in hopes of producing TRON as an independent film. However, his other animated film project, Animalympics, bombed in 1980, mostly because the Americans boycotted the Moscow Olympics, so there was little public interest in seeing an Olympic spoof. He was forced to go to Disney in 1981 to see if they'd finance him. So, while the idea for TRON was conceived in the mid-70s, I was quite accurate in saying production didn't begin in earnest until 1981. Also, as primitive as the computer graphics in TRON might seem today, they would have been impossible to do (at least for a non-military computer) in 1978. |
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Tenchi
Posts: 4510 Location: Ottawa... now I'm an ex-Anglo Montrealer. |
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I can find absolutely nothing on the Internet anywhere (including FAQsdedicated to the Last Starfighter) to support the idea that the Last Starfighter was released anywhere at anytime before 1984. Again, it's entirely possible that the idea for the movie predated production by many years, but production did not begin in earnest until 1982 or 83. At the time of its release, the computer graphics were unlike anything American audiences had ever seen, and were relatively better than TRON. |
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Tenchi
Posts: 4510 Location: Ottawa... now I'm an ex-Anglo Montrealer. |
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Browsing the various Lost in Space fan sites listed on Yahoo, I can't find any evidence of any productions under the title Lost in Space prior to the TV pilot. Since I'm feeling lazier, I'll just cut and paste this paragraph about the history of Lost in Space from the FAQof this page.
By the way this sentence is erroneous: "Irwin's next project was to convert the Johann David Wyss novel Space Family Robinson to an outer space motif, the Space Family Robinson." The title of the Wyss novel was Swiss Family Robinson. |
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Tenchi
Posts: 4510 Location: Ottawa... now I'm an ex-Anglo Montrealer. |
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While undoubtably the filmmakers responsible for the Black Hole were influenced by earlier works, I can't find any evidence anywhere that they reused footage from earlier movies. In fact, I can't find any mention of any films named "Hole in Space" or "Vacuum in Space" anywhere on the Web. Here's the total production chronology from this Black Hole FAQ: Walt Disney Production INTER-OFFICE COMMUNICATION August 3, 1979 Feb. 25, 1974 From writers Bob Barbash and Richard Landau we purchased an original unpublished story idea entitled Space Station-One. They were contracted to develop into a full story outline under our supervision. A black hole was not mentioned at the time. We had a further option on their services for them to write a treatment and a screenplay. Sept. 19, 1974 Barbash and Landau delivered final outline which contained the threatening menace of a black hole. The black hole had been added prior to this date during the time they were developing the outline. May 1975 Barbash and Landau delivered a first draft screenplay. This still contained the black hole. The script was retitled Probe-One. June 16, 1975 Writer William Wood was hired to rewrite the Barbash-Landau script. Sept. 5, 1975 William Wood delivered his final version of a rewrite still containing the black hole. Script was still titled Probe-One. We were also still referring to the project as Space Station-One. July 21, 1975 Director John Hough was hired to begin preproduction on the motion picture. We did not as yet have a budget or start date for principle photography. July 28, 1975 Writer Sumner Arthur Long was hired to rewrite the previous version of the screenplay, writing under the supervision of John Hough and producer Ron Miller. Oct. 1976 Writer Sumner Arthur Long completed his rewrite. Script still contained the black hole and was titled Space Station-One. Nov. 1976 Director John Hough's contract to direct picture was amended to postpone production of Space Station-One and to employ him to direct another feature motion picture in the meantime. He was to continue supervising further rewrites of the script while preparing for the other film. Oct. 1976 [Their chronology - I assume this is an error, and that they meant December? -dw] Writer Ed Coffey was hired to rewrite screenplay. Jan 7, 1977 Ed Coffey delivered his final version of screenplay. Feb 7, 1977 Writer Jeb Rosebrook was hired to rewrite screenplay. July 7, 1977 Writer Jeb Rosebrook delivered a new story outline after several false starts on revising existing screenplay. This new story outline became the basis for the final version of the screenplay still containing the black hole. Rosebook continued on project writing and rewriting various versions of a screenplay based on his new outline. The black hole was a permanent element in all versions. Jan. 16, 1978 Director Gary Nelson was hired to begin preproduction and supervise Rosebrook script with Producer Ron Miller. Director John Hough had bowed out to direct a film for another company. March 23, 1978 Jeb Rosebook delivered his final version of screenplay which was titled Space Probe-One. The black hole was an important element. April 3, 1978 Writer Gerry Day was hired to rewrite the last version of the script and to make changes as necessary to incorporate all new special effects that had been created by our production designers. Oct. 4, 1978 Writer Gerry Day delivered her final version of the screenplay which was now officially titled The Black Hole. Oct. 11, 1978 Principal photography started under the direction of Gary Nelson. To this date a total of $3,620,310 had been charged against the production reflecting the cost from first story purchase written by Barbash and Landau in 1974. April 20, 1979 Principal photography completed. August 3, 1979 We are still in post-production, filming the second-unit miniatures and special effects. We expect a completed film by November 23, 1979, which is scheduled for release date to theatres December 20, 1979. To this date, we have spent almost $18,000,000 and the final cost will probably be close to $20,000,000. |
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anime uncut
Posts: 111 Location: United States |
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Maybe you should be looking at PBS for Carl Segan's "Cosmos" or even his book by the same name. I meant collapsed sun, not compressed sun. According to Segan, when a sun (AKA star) collapses in on itself, it is turned into a compressed white ball of light and energy called a "dwarfed star". This has a strong field of static electricty surounding the entile white sphere. Dust particles and other debris are caught in this wake, and keeps forming a funnel which inverts the white star to it's black counterpart. It was "recently" discoved that there is no real vacuum which sucks star crafts in. This is pilot error. When getting too close to the edge of the field, the probe or craft will be caught in its field like everything else. The G-Force of the churning mass inside the field, will be too great to stay on the surface, unless an undertow is found. |
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anime uncut
Posts: 111 Location: United States |
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The "Starbright" trailer park and old fashon arcade (exterior) were shot in 1980. The General Store (exterior and interior), parked hovercraft, old fashon arcade (interior), and last pinball machine shot, were done in 1981. Clone shots in park and home, flying car (Preston added later), mid pinball machine shot, and all aliens were done in 1982. Between 1980 and '82, computer graphics were being sketched, created, and animated inside a Super-Computer. You might of heard of it. The son of the original itelf, Univac II. (IBM musam piece) The program was even split between computers, and shipped to M.I.T. to be put in their baby (I forgot what it's called). Intresting fact: Robert Preston was in a stage production of "The Music Man" until 1984. A Preston impersonator was used for a few scenes while a Preston miniture was used for the rest of the movie. In '84, they used the real Robert Preston overlapping the impersonator like they did with the stunt driver. |
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Tempest
I Run this place.
ANN Publisher Posts: 10448 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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That is a very creative mixture of scientific belief and fiction. For starters, you can't blame something on "pilot error" when no human pilot has been anywhere near a black hole / singularity / collapsed star. Gravitational forces do not produce undertow, undertow is only created when there are opposing forces excerted on liquid, gas, plasma or granular solids (Ie: sand). Kerr Black Holes (rotating ones) are thought to have a plane where it is believed that particles that would normally be trapped in a black hole (ie: photon particles) could escape even if they were within the event horizon. I could go on this subject for a long time... |
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Tenchi
Posts: 4510 Location: Ottawa... now I'm an ex-Anglo Montrealer. |
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Yeah, I know what a black hole is, and we have the Cosmos book and the Vangelis soundtrack album LP. What I was wondering about was your source for your assertion that the 1979 Disney movie the Black Hole reused clips from previous productions, when I can find absolutely no evidence of this anywhere, including Black Hole fan sites (I'm surprised how many of these there are, actually). I don't think you're making up information to spite me or anything, but I'm thinking you may be half-remembering information from a commentary track or "making of" documentary where the filmmakers were discussing their influences and confusing "being influenced by" with "using footage from". |
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anime uncut
Posts: 111 Location: United States |
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Thanks for saying that if I did get mixed up. everyone assumes I lie my ass off all the time, however I don't think I am confused this time. You are almost correct. First, "T.R.O.N." (as well as the MIT computer show) was shown as an example on a PBS 3 day discussion on how computer graphics effects our society. "Computer Graphics In The 20th Century" can be seen in repeats and in the archives of their Website (look for a man in a top-hat juggling 3D shapes). Segan and Discovery Channel both used "The Black Hole" as examples in their programing. Disney only took footage from their own movie to make the restored version (the hole was bigger in the second film). "The Last Starfighter" was briefly discussed (short clip) in a PBS mini-series about the history of computers, aptly named "The History Of Computers". "Lost In Space" was disscused in HBO's "Making Of" series and in broadcast TV specials. The alternate name was "The Robinson Family" with planned sequel "The Robinson Family On Mars", but that name was taken already (a young Adam West in a "Flash Gorden" meets "Rocketman" take off"). Last edited by anime uncut on Sat Mar 16, 2002 9:00 pm; edited 5 times in total |
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anime uncut
Posts: 111 Location: United States |
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I'll come back to the post in a minute.
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Tenchi
Posts: 4510 Location: Ottawa... now I'm an ex-Anglo Montrealer. |
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Yeah, I know what you mean; I've been getting that message a lot here too. This board's been pretty glitchy lately. |
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Tenchi
Posts: 4510 Location: Ottawa... now I'm an ex-Anglo Montrealer. |
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Ah, so it was in production a fair bit longer than the standard year (give or take a few months) than most medium-budget sci-fi films of that era took to make. I was thinking that it couldn't have been in production before 1982, because I thought Galaxian, the arcade game that was the obvious inspiration for the arcade game in the movie, came out in 1982. I was wrong; Galaxian came out in 1979; I got it confused with Zaxxon. Anyhow, since the Last Starfighter was a Universal production, it in no way could have affected Disney's decision not to make a Starblazers film. Starblazers wasn't even on American TV until 1979, so I'm a little skeptical that any of the films you mentioned would have contributed to Disney's decision not to make the Starblazers movie. I thought the live-action Starblazers movie was proposed in the 90s anyway. |
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