Forum - View topicINTEREST: Mamoru Oshii: Today's Anime Is Driven by Otaku, Merchandise
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Discrepancy? Really? I would love to address this properly but I'm not sure what you actually mean by that, or what your issue is with what I said. You apparently seem to think I've contradicted myself, but I'm not sure why you think this. You need to write more clearly, 'cause I've read your post five times and I'm still not understanding you properly. What I think you are saying is that in the two sentences you quoted, you believe that I am using popular opinion as a reason to justify calling something objectively good. You think I am contradicting myself because I have previously stated that quality does not equal popularity. But this, if it is truly what you believe, is patently absurd. I never once used popular opinion (or even my own opinion) to justify facts, and therefore I haven't contradicted myself. So, would you please elaborate what you really meant in normal English? 'Kay thanks. |
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Anymouse
 Posts: 685 |
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I also had trouble understanding as well, but I think what happened is she interpreted your phrase "not just my opinions" to mean that they were other people's opinions rather than objective facts based on analysis.
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504NOSON2
 Subscriber Posts: 647 Location: Body:Santa Barbara, CA ~ Heart:New Orleans, LA |
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Oshii was just making an observation which stated the blatant obvious. However, I get the impression that he was placing the blame solely on creators of these works. The reason the Japanese anime industry is filling the airwaves, season after season, with homogeneous, fad-driven works is because revenue has fallen, dismally. So, in order to stay afloat, they cater to a niche audience that they are sure will purchase DVD, soundtracks, apparel, and other miscellaneous merchandise(no matter how many times they re-release them). Blame the fans--on both sides of the Pacific--for not buying like they used to, thereby, giving the creators enough funds to produce a diverse array of genres. (With the confidence that they'll actually turn a profit.)
As far as the issue of what constitutes a "good" anime: I think that the definition of what is of exceptional quality(for most fictional mediums) becomes objective beyond a certain threshold. Superior writing, intriguing story, a nice pace, engaging and diverse characters, fluid animation, quality art, and good music are all traits required to make an anime "good" and, objectively, "better" than an anime that lacks those elements. Now, who's to say that Pokémon or Bleach aren't more *entertaining* than, say, Haibane Renmei or Evangelion: 1.0 You Are (Not) Alone? However, the former two only satisfy one's most basic senses. So, I'd argue, popularity doesn't necessarily equal quality, to a certain extent. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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The link between a show's quality and its popularity is far more tenuous than is just. Take Wandering Son for example. Okay, it did have some problems, but it was a really mature (perhaps too mature) and considered story about gender and sexual identity in young people. I'm not certain but I think it sold something like three hundred copies per volume, which if true is pathetic. It deserved far better than that. I hear what you're saying, I guess I just wanted another chance to decry the injustice in the world.
Ah, that makes sense. It didn't even occur to me that someone might misinterpret that, but it looks to be the case. |
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Ingraman
Posts: 1082 |
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It definitely deserved better. I loved watching it on CR, and I imported the Blu-rays as a way of saying 'thanks' to the mangaka and anime production company, especially as it seems as though it's unlikely that I'll be able to buy the anime as a US HD release. I will admit, though, that I would not have made the purchase if the release had been DVD-only, as Aoi Hana had been. I wanted to own that one, too... <sniff> ;_; Now I'll admit that I also imported the Haruhi BD box, the K-On!! BDs, the Railgun BDs, the Macross Frontier BDs, etc., etc., in order to put this back on the otaku/merchandise topic. I semi-regularly buy anime Blu-rays, the occasional CD and artbook, but it's been a long time since I bought a figure or other sort of merchandise. Hmm... I'm also still importing the Hanasaku Iroha BDs, Tiger & Bunny BDs, and considering the Chihayafuru BDs. My importing days only go back to Patlabor, Gundam 0083, and Giant Robo on laserdisc, and a number of Sailor Moon LDs (first three series). I don't quite remember which title was my first LD import, but those are probably some of the early ones. I really only found out how interesting anime was back in 1991. My Amazon and CDJapan order histories only go back to 2002, so they're not much help. That's probably more than enough rambling for the night. |
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Actar
 Posts: 1074 Location: Singapore |
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While I don't often buy BDs/DVDs, I buy a TON (the word being an understatement) of Anime merchandise like figures, dolls, artbooks, posters, wallscrolls, cels, straps and the like. This makes me wonder... how much money from the sale of merchandise goes to the original Anime production companies, writers, artists, etc... |
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jl07045
 Posts: 1527 Location: Riga, Latvia |
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How does the fact that we can determine the meaning and thus interpret the work (you should know there are a lot of conflicting opinions about this in academia) enable us to determine quality? Some kind of understanding of course is necessary for evaluation, that is too obvious to mention, but it is far from enough. My question was - how does the part "We can know the meaning of signs" being true make the statement "there are objective measures of quality" true. And I guess you're not talking about the more technical things like acting or editing that have more to do with craftsmanship than art. |
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Anymouse
Posts: 685 |
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That is a much harder question to answer, and I suppose I was taking the rather simplistic assumption that it was self evident.
I will take my standards as based on a universal humanity or consciousness. If we can find a work discussing or glorifying the higher parts of our humanity or consciousness, then it is raised in the rankings. If it glorifies or overemphasizes things that are baser, then it is lowered. I admit this isn't a thorough explanation. It definitely isn't a Thoreau explanation. But it is the best I can come up with right now. |
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Touma
 Posts: 2651 Location: Colorado, USA |
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Do you seriously think that "complete fluff," "it sucks," "laughably bad," "horrifying bad," "very good drama," "moronic Harem show," "not good at all," "always ridiculous," and "pretty good but emotionally fake" are not just your opinions? |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Yep. I do.
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jl07045
Posts: 1527 Location: Riga, Latvia |
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It is not. Actually the problem you're facing is this. |
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Crisha
Moderator
 Posts: 4290 |
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Arthur Games: Binky's Facts and Opinions That's not to say I disagree with your opinions (I hold such woes as yourself), but still... That's a pretty shitty argument if you're going for objective fact. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Willag, you seem to be committing a very fundamental mistake.
Your assumption is this: My opinions -> facts whereas it is actually this: Facts -> my opinions. In plain English, I do not assert that things are true because I believe them to be true, but rather I believe things are true because they are true. Why do you believe the world is round? Because it is, and you know this to be so. It isn't your opinion that makes the world round, it is your knowledge that the world is round that has influenced your opinion. And if you are going to counter that Anime and Manga are different and there are no objective truths in entertainment, then I dare you to tell me straight up that Violence Jack is just as good as Black Lagoon, or that the dub of Garzey's Wing is no worse than the dub of Cowboy Bebop. There are objective truths in Anime and Manga, whether you believe it to be the case or not. Hopefully that satisfies you. Oh, I know it won't, because that's the way these things work. But I can be optimistic, right? Right? |
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TitanXL
 Posts: 4036 |
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I honestly can't tell if he's being serious or not...
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Touma
Posts: 2651 Location: Colorado, USA |
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Assuming that you are talking about dtm42, he seems to be literate enough to know what "objective" means and understand the difference between facts and opinions, so I think that he is probably just playing with us. If he actually is serious then it would not be possible to have a meaningful discussion with him. In either case there is not much point in continuing the debate. |
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