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technomike
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 26
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Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 9:58 am
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Sage Shinigami wrote: |
Almost to a person, pro translators are longtime fans. Many, like Dave Fleming and Anna Exter, were once fansubbers themselves. They are not motivated purely by greed, nor do they disregard the nuances of the shows they work on. They are simply people who are good enough at their craft to make a career of it. The big lie of "Commercial translators do not care about the work they do" is one that offends me greatly, because I know a lot of these people and have observed firsthand the care they put into their work.
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Actually, Anna Exter started as a fansub translator. As well as Ben Ettinger and of course Sue Shambaugh. They were indeed some of the best fansub translators around back in golden days of fansubbing.
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Mohawk52
Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
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Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 11:30 am
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MissLeedz wrote: |
Quote: | Let me get this right. You pay organised crime for your dose of porn. but you won't pay the anime creator for his anime? Don't you look at yourself in the mirror then? ( Goes off to get a bag of stones.) |
If you read all the listings..I do pay for anime just not all of it. Organized crime? LMAO Why don't you look at yourself in the mirror and be honest with you, you are not perfect nor am I so get off your high horse. |
I never said I was a saint. But I was raised on Christian principles. I have no interest in porn so I don't buy it. Mostly all of it these days is run by organised crime so I wouldn't anyway on principle. And I don't download anything I haven't purchased first from the legitamate owner. I can look at myself straight in the eyes and say "Yep! My conscience is clear." and "What have you done today to make you feel proud?".
BTW I get a nice view on my shire. I can look over the hedges.
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Dragoness
Joined: 16 Oct 2005
Posts: 2
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Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2005 2:39 pm
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I have found yet another layer of hell as far as being an anime fan goes: Fansubbed vs. Dubbed part 2 - with the ProDubbed people doing the bitching!
Instead of listening to endless complaining about this DUB SUCKS, the actors arn't good enough, wah wah wah!!!!; these fansubbing-bashing equally annoying people go out of their way to bash the groups themselves, how they translate, how they tend to overuse swear words (DUH) and etc. I swear to GOD ALMIGHTY there is not one thing that these people dont complain about. Its always SOMETHING. Whatever happened to just being happy, and having NiCE conversations, without the horrible leaned-one-way entirely, opinionated beyond REASON, B-I-T-C-H-E-S that can't leave others alone.
Ug. Another ranson why fandoms suck. Another tussle over how Naruto was handled on Cartoon Network. I swear. It's a prime example of "Narutards"...who was just so damn pissed that CN edited this "Mature show." Naruto is NOT a mature ADULT SHOW!!!! Nor, though, is it a child's show. (In my beliefs editing IS evil no matter what and censorship to 'broaden appeal' is dumb, however, and CN does have a habit of butchering many an anime with over-editing...) Then the fandom turns ugly, and desides to whine and moan about fansubs, their groups, and all this other CRAP.
Organised crime? Excuse me? I'm with the fansub torrent users on this one. Turing anime into a battlefield is one of the crappiest online experienses one can have. I've seen many an anime via torrents (both after and before licensing), and to bash all these companies is unfair, they have fun with what they do, and provide a wonderful (albeit illegal) service to the anime community. I don't think that the fansub groups honestly are announcing any anime as "theirs," and 'presented by' is who is doing the subbing... And since there are many many possible ways to translate Japanese, it is possible that both the US DVD release subtitals and fansubs are correct.
OMG really?!?! It could be a mix of BOTH?!?! We're all opinionated?????? ZOMG!!!!! This entire disscussion is so pointless and stupid, it makes them sound even more asenine.
......*cough*.....Whoa. I Don't mean to anger anyone. This is why I don't like dabbling in fandoms at all...people are too touchy and opinionated, its more relaxing on one's nervous system to be a fandom of one, unheard unseen.... It doesn't have to be one or the other, peeps. I'm certain that I've REALLY pissed off at least a dozen of yas...so flame me. Email me your rants. Go ahead. Contradict me. Just...please, think about what you say before you say it. If its more of this opinionate, one-way I AM GOD shit, keep it. There's already enough out there.
~Dragoness, Opinionated Biatch #347012
Last edited by Dragoness on Mon Oct 17, 2005 4:53 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Hika Yagami
Joined: 14 Oct 2005
Posts: 52
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Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 3:02 am
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Chun-Li wrote: |
Japanese Seiyuus should never be compared to American voice actors and actresses. Japanese Seiyuus are professionals ...they had to go to Voice Acting school, work tremendously hard and take their career very seriously... |
Mike Toole wrote: | These days, lots of of Japanese seiyuu go to special schools for voice acting. Most of these schools are not accredited in any way, and in fact, they're kind of the equivalent of those "Can you draw Pepe the dog? FREE ART SCHOLARSHIP FOR YOU!" charnel house art schools. The rest are gormless, talentless idiots with pretty faces who won talent shows or magazine contests. By way of example, let's go with, say, Haruko Momoi. Now I like "Halko," she's funny and subversive. But she got her start in performing by making songs for pornographic video games and appearing on TV shows about mobile phones. She has practically no range-- her entire schtick is about cartoonishly imitating the speech and pitch of a young girl. Yet, she's quite popular.
Compare an established star like her with Crispin Freeman. Freeman didn't go to Seiyuu University. Nope. Instead, he has a Masters of Fine Arts from Columbia University, and cut his teeth performing on Broadway and at the American Repertory Theatre. He's a hard-working screen and stage actor who's appeared all over North America, and has worked as a voice actor in both New York and Los Angeles. Yet, for all of his work, he's still a youngster, a pup, compared to established voice acting giants like Billy West, Maurice Lemarche, and Tress MacNeille.
Compared to an actor like him, the experience and techniques that seiyuu get from their little schools in this day and age are laughable. Laughable. And Freeman is by no means an anomaly, either-- most North American voice actors, regardless of location, have some considerable training and/or education in theatre, a background to draw upon for their recorded performances. Not so in Japan, at least not today.
The quality of performance in Japanese voice acting has, in my opinion, degraded considerably in the last twenty years. Once upon a time, it WAS a demanding career run through with talented, versatile actors-- people like Mika Doi, Akira Kamiya, and Kaneto Shiozawa. These days, who do we have? Ayako Kawasumi, maybe? George Nakata? Anyone else? Anyone?
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Sage Shinigami wrote: | I'll agree with this. I'll also say that I love how people can find faults in the way English VAs pronounce Japanese names and words, but no "fan" cringes when they're watching fansubs and a Japanese VA absolutely murders an English word. Happens a lot, but no one says anything. Amazing... |
I agree with this too. New Japanese voice actors aren't as talented as the older ones especially not as talented as Mika Doi, Megumi Ogata, and Hikaru Midorikawa(who is my personal favorite). Whenever I find a character that I like, it's always voiced by one of the older seiyuu.
I also agree with the mispronounciation of words with different languages. Like how people complain about how they get the names on Naruto wrong. Who cares? At least they kept the names and that's good enough for me! I don't mind as long as they get their point across. I've seen English dubs not do Japanese words exactly right and vice-versa. I don't cringe at either or. I think it's kinda cute actually.
Hika Yagami
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Mugen1style
Joined: 26 Aug 2005
Posts: 281
Location: North of the wall
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Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 6:03 am
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I have been reading all these reply's to the Answer man column. I see a mix of well crafted rants and not so well written rants that are up in arms over this weeks installment of the the Answerman column. So this is my question to the one's who did have the well written rants. How come people who seem to be well versed in spelling , grammar and sentence structure, English in general can not seem to grasp the use of context. I am no expert but it did not seem that difficult to understand what The Answerman was telling the person who asked the question how to respond to contemptuous purist punks online. That is what he asked . I am tired of the PC police trying to quash debate even if it dose hurts peoples feelings how else are you going to be able to truly understand one another. I think people should tell it like it is even if it may hurt people around you with in reason of course and there is no way you can tell me Zac crossed that line. So to Zac turn the spit slowly and let us hear the crackle in next weeks column
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Lady Multi
Joined: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 675
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Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:03 am
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When the hell did we care about HOW everything was "Gramatically written"...
Answerman generally misreads the question and bashes fansubs whenever the word "fansub" comes up--even when it DOESN'T come up... and still doesn't answer the question... I have read them, too.
It's one thing if he voices his opinion...it's another when he blanantly does it and doesn't answer or avoids the direct question. He tries to act innocent while bashing other people's ideals while he is in direct violation of my ideals.
and most of all he has a responsiblity to actually ANSWER the question...not go off on another rant about how fansubs are evil. Just because he doesn't like them doesn't give him reason to generally give off the aura that he believes eveyone who downloads fansubs are lying, cheating theives.
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Sage Shinigami
Joined: 16 Oct 2005
Posts: 3
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Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 2:06 pm
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Mohawk52 wrote: |
MissLeedz wrote: |
Quote: | Let me get this right. You pay organised crime for your dose of porn. but you won't pay the anime creator for his anime? Don't you look at yourself in the mirror then? ( Goes off to get a bag of stones.) |
If you read all the listings..I do pay for anime just not all of it. Organized crime? LMAO Why don't you look at yourself in the mirror and be honest with you, you are not perfect nor am I so get off your high horse. |
I never said I was a saint. But I was raised on Christian principles. I have no interest in porn so I don't buy it. Mostly all of it these days is run by organised crime so I wouldn't anyway on principle. And I don't download anything I haven't purchased first from the legitamate owner. I can look at myself straight in the eyes and say "Yep! My conscience is clear." and "What have you done today to make you feel proud?".
BTW I get a nice view on my shire. I can look over the hedges. |
I have to say this: If you were raised on "Christian principles" you should know that pride is one of the seven deadly sins.
[quote=Dragoness]
......*cough*.....Whoa. I Don't mean to anger anyone. This is why I don't like dabbling in fandoms at all...people are too touchy and opinionated, its more relaxing on one's nervous system to be a fandom of one, unheard unseen.... It doesn't have to be one or the other, peeps. I'm certain that I've REALLY pissed off at least a dozen of yas...so flame me. Email me your rants. Go ahead. Contradict me. Just...please, think about what you say before you say it. If its more of this opinionate, one-way I AM GOD shit, keep it. There's already enough out there.
[/quote]
....Yeah. If you could've kept this last paragraph out, the entire rant wouldn't have been so hypocritical, and thus disregarded because you didn't think when you made your post. Sad too, because you know--you had some good points. Of course, we should already know that leaning too far one way or the other is dangerous, but...different people feel strongly about different things. I prefer to leave people alone unless they're physically hurting or verbally assualting me. (And occasionally, I can ignore the verbal assualts.)
Oh, about Naruto....Answerman SAID Naruto was a kid's show because: "...it's a show about spunky kid ninjas who have amazing adventures learning important life lessons like being true to yourself and the value of teamwork..." But the thing about that is--a hell of a lot of ADULTS would do well learning the value of teamwork and being true to themselves, rather than selling out for money or to be popular (which can sometimes lead to you getting money) or whatever. But overall, yes--it IS a kid's show. But that won't make me stop liking it. I'm just a big kid anyways.
(One more thing? Its "asinine". And if you spelled it wrong on purpose--that joke is not now, nor was it ever funny.)
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Dragoness
Joined: 16 Oct 2005
Posts: 2
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Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 4:51 pm
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Sage Shinigami wrote: | (One more thing? Its "asinine". And if you spelled it wrong on purpose--that joke is not now, nor was it ever funny.) |
Opps, seriously on the spelling. Never been good at that. ...Funny, I put in the last paragraph to kind of summarise my blabbing and NOT be hypocritical....ah...! All too confusing. I have been told.
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darkhunter
Joined: 13 May 2004
Posts: 2992
Location: Los Angelas
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Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2005 11:31 pm
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Lady Multi wrote: | When the hell did we care about HOW everything was "Gramatically written"...
Answerman generally misreads the question and bashes fansubs whenever the word "fansub" comes up--even when it DOESN'T come up... and still doesn't answer the question... I have read them, too.
It's one thing if he voices his opinion...it's another when he blanantly does it and doesn't answer or avoids the direct question. He tries to act innocent while bashing other people's ideals while he is in direct violation of my ideals.
and most of all he has a responsiblity to actually ANSWER the question...not go off on another rant about how fansubs are evil. Just because he doesn't like them doesn't give him reason to generally give off the aura that he believes eveyone who downloads fansubs are lying, cheating theives. |
Oh shut up please. If you were more active on this forum, you would know why Zac reply the way he did. To me, the question was answer because I see a lot of these people who always put blames on dub studio and they tend to like sub, so I know where he's coming from.
Even though I seen fansub from time to time, I wasn't offended by his comment. I think the people that are really offended are the people that misread the post or just the people who actually don't pay shit for anime and really really love their free fansub.
And take a dose of your own medicine and stop critizing people like ZAC if you can't critism yourself.
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Old School
Joined: 24 Sep 2005
Posts: 20
Location: Oregon
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Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:03 am
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O.K. I think DarkHunter is in the right here. Do you want anime for free? If you can answer yes to this question then I think the U.S. prison system can make room for you because a bootleg is just that. Screwing over the original makers of a show for your own gain is not cool. These people put in years of their life into what they do.
Just so some bootlegger can come and screw it all up in a matter of seconds.
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Lady Multi
Joined: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 675
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Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:58 am
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darkhunter wrote: |
Lady Multi wrote: | When the hell did we care about HOW everything was "Gramatically written"...
Answerman generally misreads the question and bashes fansubs whenever the word "fansub" comes up--even when it DOESN'T come up... and still doesn't answer the question... I have read them, too.
It's one thing if he voices his opinion...it's another when he blanantly does it and doesn't answer or avoids the direct question. He tries to act innocent while bashing other people's ideals while he is in direct violation of my ideals.
and most of all he has a responsiblity to actually ANSWER the question...not go off on another rant about how fansubs are evil. Just because he doesn't like them doesn't give him reason to generally give off the aura that he believes eveyone who downloads fansubs are lying, cheating theives. |
Oh shut up please. If you were more active on this forum, you would know why Zac reply the way he did. To me, the question was answer because I see a lot of these people who always put blames on dub studio and they tend to like sub, so I know where he's coming from.
Even though I seen fansub from time to time, I wasn't offended by his comment. I think the people that are really offended are the people that misread the post or just the people who actually don't pay shit for anime and really really love their free fansub.
And take a dose of your own medicine and stop critizing people like ZAC if you can't critism yourself. |
Ah, excuse me, I have over 10-thousand dollars worth of anime, video games, manga, import goods (including a $60 vhs tape), collectable goods that I have amassed since 1997 thus starting with Sailor Moon and Slayers... I STARTED FANSUBS because of DiC's crappy dub of Sailor Moon...INCLUDING THE SEASON (Stars) THAT HAS NEVER BEEN RELASED IN THE US
AND to this day, the Fansubs I keep are of shows that are/have been overly edited (Tokyo Mew Mew; Sailor Moon) oh and I have the Japanese version of an Anime that didn't have the Japanese track (Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust) since it had an original English track and I was curious on the Japanese voices. [I do on ADV's Sailor Moon box-set releases now of the heavily edited sections...]
Oh, and I currently have on order the "Avenger" collection (which I had downloaded as fansubs and would never have bought otherwise).
I, personally, only buy NEW items and I buy LIMITED EDITIONS of N.A. releases, so I'm sure I've done my fair amount of purchases. (I bought .hack when it was brand-new and all of them in their Limited Edition sets, the games and everything. That's about...hmm...$800 on one series I would never have bought if not for fansubs).
Translation: I don't buy many anime I haven't seen as Fansubs nowdays (CLAMP-series anime is diffrent). Most of my money goes into Manga (oh, but guess what I also download scanlations of the series I am buying).
I currently download a whole whopping ONE episode per week but as of Saturday, Oct. 14, 2005: the 1st Season of Tsubasa Chronicles ended so that means I'll be downloading sparatic things that have never been translating in their 15 years or so after being created.
Oh, and guess what, when Tsubasa Chronicles is released in the US, I'll buy it and any special editions they have of it~! but seeing that it isn't liscenced yet, I can't.
The only fansubed anime episodes I'm sure to keep forever is Pokemon (especially the Porigon episode) because a Japanese-Language verison shall never be released...even though I own nearly the entire series in ENGLISH~!
Now~if some of the companies that are horribly edited anime would do like PioneerAnimation (now Geneon) did with "Cardcaptor Sakura" there wouldn't be as much arguing, I feel. But, in my case, I'll just keep "Tokyo Mew Mew" and let them have "Mew Mew Power".
So, please, don't flatter yourself with your mild-mannered since of justice...
Well, that's all I have time for, I have to go to school... I would love to list every anime series that I'd never would have bought if not for fansubs, but I haven't the time.
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 7912
Location: Anime News Network Technodrome
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Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 1:17 pm
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This has been a very interesting discussion and both sides of the argument have been very well represented here, but as it stands there are two threads about this and both of them are starting to go in circles.
I'm gonna go ahead and lock this one up. If you'd like to continue discussing, please use the thread regarding the Editorial.
Again, thanks to everyone for reading, responding and discussing.
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