Forum - View topicRurouni Kenshin (TV 2023) (w/ index).
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Tony K.
 SubscriberModerator  Posts: 11486 Location: Frisco, TX |
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I initially thought it would go a little further into the introduction of Kyoto, but they really are saving all of it for S2. Also, the Saitou fight is waaaay more underwhelming in this versus RK96. The choreography wasn't as vicious, there was hardly any mood because they ended up fighting outside instead of staying within the closed walls of the dojo, thus leading to less tension. There was also less blood, the animation was lazy, Saitou's stance wasn't well-drawn. I can go on and on. Everything about '23 is much more subdued: toned-down humor, quicker and less flashy fights, even the music. I was reading the manga along with this season and looking at some episodes of '96 for comparison. And while '23 does a great job accurately adapting the manga, I feel it's missing two nuances: Kenshin's eye design for Battousai mode and a great soundtrack. Watching the Saitou fight in this, then comparing it to the other iterations, the visual representation of Kenshin reverting from rurouni to Battousai is supposed to be a very important turning point. I like that the inflection of his voice changed accordingly, but I feel they didn't get the eyes right. He looked more serious, sure, but Liden Films has forced my hand to start nitpicking on some freaking eyes! I'll post comparisons at some point, now that the Fall season is winding down, plus I'll have a little more free time during the holidays. And the music. The music! The score for '23 isn't bad, but it's not particularly memorable either. Noriyuki Asakura's themes and melodies did wonders for RK96. He used a very eclectic mix of Spanish and acoustic/electric guitar, classical string and woodwind instruments, and even a little synthesizer that made everything about that series so much more sensational. The guy has a knack for wonderful compositions. Look up his stuff (not just for this, but also the Tenchuu games). I'm sorry my hype isn't panning out. '23 is fine, but it's also a bit lackluster at parts that could use some upticks in design and choreography. Now, I'm just hoping the Kyoto arc turns out okay. After one season, I feel '96 still has a clear advantage, campiness and all. Music make a difference! ---------------------------------- ep. 24 [pending] |
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Tony K.
Subscriber Moderator Posts: 11486 Location: Frisco, TX |
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Well, I did not get to do the followup comparison I wanted with the whole art/tonal differences between the '97 and '23 series. I still intend to, at some point, but maybe it's better I save the comparisons, at least through the Kyoto arc, since S2 has a new director. It could be a lot better than S1 (or not).
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smurky turkey
Posts: 2918 |
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I will keep an eye out to see what the consensus here is when season 2 ends. Fall is a real busy anime season and the first season of Kenshin rarely got better than decent for me.
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Harleyquin
Posts: 3014 |
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#25
The Kyoto arc does indeed air in 2024 contrary to my expectations. Depending on how the animators go about it, they might be able to salvage the remake's reception amongst its core audience and casual viewers alike but they'll have to pull off something special to do so. Improving the quality of the action scenes is definitely a must to get the viewers back on side. Unlike the climax battle between Kenshin and Saitou which was disappointing, the rematch between Saitou and Sanosuke actually felt like an improvement compared to its original episode and the preceding battle. It's not just the copious amount of bleeding Sanosuke does which makes the battle more visceral; viewers get a sense of the impact of each blow Saitou lands on Sanosuke when he attempts to teach him why defence was the main reason the survivors of the Bakumatsu were able to build their reputations rather than the durability Sanosuke prides himself on. To be fair to Sansuke, his offensive power IS sufficient for Bakumatsu veterans, the small scene with Saitou dropping his cigarette after his left forearm is numbed from Saitou's fist crush bears this out. Kaoru isn't well liked by many viewers because she's highly emotional, so Megumi has to kick her out of the funk she's in so that she can make the journey to Kyoto as well. Like Kenshin, they can't afford the steamship ferry from Yokohama so they'll be pursuing him on the same route Kenshin takes. It's actually scary how quickly he can do that route in five days, modern travellers who do the Tokaido route nowadays barely cover even half that even if they go all out with the best equipment and peak physical fitness. For a pilot episode, it's set the stage and done it slightly better than I originally expected. The animators need to up their game on the action set pieces, since the storyline is well known and has been covered with multiple adaptations. If they can get viewers to talk about it in the same breadth as the movie adaptation, then they'll have done more than enough to redeem their reputations after the first two quarters. |
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Harleyquin
Posts: 3014 |
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#26
Even if the adaptation like the previous airing keeps to convention and doesn't change the narrative, if it can keep viewers interested with its visuals and action set pieces the minimum standard required to maintain it as a going concern would be satisfied. This episode happily does just that, perhaps unsurprising as decades have passed since the original airing and visual quality getting an upgrade is taken for granted nowadays. There's a lot packed into the episode, with numerous small action set pieces interspersed throughout the airtime. Most of the focus is naturally on Kenshin's new acquaintance, who has a surprising connection with one of Kenshin's past adversaries. Although she can take care of herself, Kenshin has done the one thing he swore not to do: get himself involved with other people unnecessarily. Now that she knows he is familiar with Shinomori Aoshi, she will stick to him like a leech until she gets the information she needs. She knows she can't beat him in a straight fight or in an ambush, so playing the long game is her only choice and she's clearly patient as she's been chasing the Oniwaban remnants for years. Aoshi himself returns, and he has doubled up with his weapons. He's also increased his ruthlessness and bloodlust in his quest to find and defeat Kenshin as he was promised. Considering how much stronger he is with two weapons, Kenshin will be hard pressed to face him should they face off now. Shishio Makoto is given a brief introduction in this episode, but his grand entrance will have to wait. After all, he's already announced his intention to formally introduce himself to his predecessor as shadow assassin. Hopefully this trend of visual improvement is maintained as the adaptation progresses, the last thing it needs is another drop in quality to put off the few viewers who have stuck by it since the first episode. |
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Harleyquin
Posts: 3014 |
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#27
Completely forgotten Kaoru and Yahiko DID take the ferry from Yokohama to Kyoto, so they'll save time compared to Kenshin especially as he made the detour to the village this episode. Everything else is more or less as I remember it, including Misao's attempted cliff jumping scene. No obvious differences stand out between this episode and its original airing. The visuals naturally look better, while the various scenes with Kenshin putting on his "Oro" goofy face not cut from this episode compared to the notable comedy scene with the chasing policeman in the original airing which didn't make it into the previous episode. Assuming it completes its airing as scheduled, then I can see how the pacing will develop as it should mirror the original airing and there won't be any opportunity to add any original episodes like the first two quarters did with the excursion to Yokohama. I might well be wrong and the animators might spring a surprise, but it's a gamble as this is THE arc for the franchise and getting it wrong will almost assuredly turn off viewers who remember the original airing. |
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Harleyquin
Posts: 3014 |
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#28
There's a point to the village detour, since introducing Shishio Makoto formally gives Himura a glimpse into what his nemesis is and what he's fighting for beyond the prevention of further political assassinations. Realistically speaking, Shishio is over the top as a villain, so his mindset reflects his ambitions being as extensive as the burns on his body. As a throwback villain for the ages, it's still fun seeing him as an anachronistic contrast to the modern template for villains in different media. The other reason for the village detour will be revealed later. The main showpiece is the duel against Senkaku, the village's local tyrant and Shishio's puppet. Over the top in physical terms, he effectively lost the battle after his ambush failed to land a hit on either Himura or Saitou. Once Himura had the measure of what he could do, he simply chose a method to win without revealing his hand. In the end, he still used one of his moves despite Saitou expecting him not to, but that explanation will have to wait until next week. This mini-arc has its resolution next week (the episode title made that very clear), but there's more to come from a low-key arc. Those who've watched the movie or the original airing will know the fun's just beginning, some of the best parts of this arc come after this one. Animation-wise, the Senkaku battle is an improvement over its original (to be expected given the time which has passed) but mechanically there isn't much to it since the two contestants are effectively racing each other around the room in a game of lethal tag. The real test will come in some of the later battles, as there's one in particular that the remake can easily surpass its original provided it puts in the effort. |
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Harleyquin
Posts: 3014 |
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#29
The episode highlight being the first duel between Kenshin and Soujirou, there's not much to say apart from that short battle. There are a few details which changed from the original adaptation (Soujirou's stance, the additional scene before Soujirou departs the village, Saitou's revelation about his spouse) but everything more or less as I remembered it. Soujirou is a very effective counter to Kenshin (and to a lesser extent Saitou) as swordsman. If you can't read your opponent's next move and have to take the initiative, it opens up an opportunity for Soujirou as he can read his opponent in the same way Kenshin and Saitou can (albeit to a lesser extent). It isn't just a sword he requires; Kenshin needs something more to overcome this barrier standing between him and Shishio. The main target is himself very good at reading the strengths and weaknesses of a swordsman's style through one watch of their moveset, so Kenshin has lost the short encounter because he felt compelled to use one of the cards in his hand. That will hurt Kenshin later, although to what extent remains to be seen. Perhaps it's because Misao was very young when Aoshi and his companions left her, but it's notable that she does not react the entire time even though Saitou and everyone else referred to Kenshin by his Bakumatsu sobriquet rather than the name he goes by in the Meiji era. Her "gramps" who raised her clearly didn't tell her much about what happened during the civil war in the shadows, albeit with good reason. Kenshin on the other hand already knows she's raised by the Oniwabanshu, and will need their intelligence network as he has pressing tasks to complete before he faces Shishio again. The post-credits scene was expected, as the episode which comes after this is something else I'm looking forward as it's another opportunity for the animators to showcase their skills and to contrast with the original airing. Not sure how that will turn out, but something else to look forward to. |
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Harleyquin
Posts: 3014 |
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#30
Sanosuke can't remain lost in the woods of Central Japan indefinitely, so what better way to get him back on the correct path and at the same time increase his combat prowess than a chance meeting with a man who has the secrets of power which are a better fit to his combat style than the traditional defences of warriors like Saitou and Kenshin? The meeting with Yuukyuzan Anji is one of those episodes that sticks, and this episode is one of those I can remember better than others. One of the immediately obvious differences is Sanosuke is less of an idiot this time round; first adaptation he thought 破戒僧 meant 破壊僧 because of Anji's affinity for pulverising rocks. On top of that, the narrator even chimes in on what the term 破戒僧 means for the rest of the viewing audience which wasn't already aware of the term. Sanosuke still didn't know what the abolition act did to the centuries-old religious order in Japan which had enjoyed Shogunate patronage, but no need to change that as he was indeed still underage when the Act was passed and wouldn't have understood it anyway had someone told him then. The rest of the episode stays close to source, with especial emphasis on the state of Sanosuke's right hand as he destroys rocks of various sizes for six straight days in an attempt to master Anji's technique or die in the attempt. The fateful meeting with his captain's ghost is also as I remembered it, right down to the gag about Sanosuke realising he's a ghost because of the lack of visible feet. Sanosuke's realization of where he met with Anji is also done in roughly the same manner (with a bit more exaggeration on his facial expressions). For the first-time viewer, the meeting at the end shouldn't come as a surprise. The implications of the summons to Kyoto should be obvious, so those looking forward to it can start counting down the episodes. |
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Harleyquin
Posts: 3014 |
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#31
The highlight of the episode is Okina's introduction, one of the more unusual characters of this franchise with a background similar to Kenshin's. Unlike the former Battousai, he can walk around Kyoto without drawing undue attention as he kept to the shadows with his intelligence network. Without him, there's no way Kenshin can proceed with the two immediate tasks at hand so it's a neat way of resolving Misao's situation as well as his own. At first glance, a few differences from the original airing. The ex-shinobi Kuro has a very pronounced Kyoto accent, the scene where Yahiko learns first-hand one of the comic situations used nowadays for the Kansai dialect (just about everyone has heard this from Kansai natives), Okina's really exaggerated offer to help Kenshin, slightly expanded scene where Yahiko and Kaoru meet Tae's twin older sister and Sadoujima Houji's welcome to the returning Shishio which wasn't in the original airing. Okina's background is also slightly expanded in this episode. I think it was Aoshi who confirmed how skilled Okina really is, rather than through Misao's gossip this week. Also, more visuals for the background to the Oniwabanshu Aoitei hideout and what became of the Shogun's former shinobi network after it's employer was dissolved. Weaving in the Shirobeko restaurant before changing plans to visit Arai Seiku is also the episode's way of tying in the interconnecting stories with each other (I recall Seiku was visited straight away with no mention of touring Kyoto for hotpot lunch). Things progressing as they are, I'm looking forward to next week because next week's character is the direct inspiration for two of SNK's most iconic fighter characters; Haohmaru and Tokugawa Yoshitora. With the updated visuals, will he still make the same impact he did back then? |
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Harleyquin
Posts: 3014 |
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#32
The episode adds quite a bit of filler to make up for the content not actually having enough time on its own to fill the broadcast slot. Not that it's wasted, mind. Misao doing her best impression of a 狂言回し and Chou showing off some of his techniques before the showdown for Arai Shakku's final creation are the notable differences from the original airing and help keep the episode from being a total letdown. I suppose the characters inspired by Chou in SNK's roster have long since outlived their inspiration, but Chou's impact from his introduction isn't as dramatic as I thought it would be. He still has the same Kansai accent his original depiction had, and his colour scheme is closer to Tokugawa Yoshitora's than the original thanks to modern colouring and animator's choice for palette. Maybe it's the hair, the broom isn't as long as I remember it and the most recent depictions of Haohmaru and Yoshitora have theirs up to the waist at least. Chou's brief interaction with Iori before his parents show off doesn't strike me as familiar either. It's not pointless since it contrasts with what Chou can do with a sword compared to a toy when the principles behind each trick are similar. I do remember him showing off his draw and sheathe party trick to the parents with Iori in custody, but not the part before where he fails repeatedly to do the same with Iori's toy. With the cliffhanger and next week's episode title, time to see what Arai Shakku really dedicated to that nondescript mountaintop Shinto shrine. Shakku's voice is another one I'd like to hear, as it was a particularly distinctive one for its brief cameo in the original airing and I'm curious if the same VA will reprise the role or if someone else will do the honours. |
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Harleyquin
Posts: 3014 |
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#33
It's not surprising the episode drags on longer than it should. I don't think it's to the episode's benefit, but the final scene before the credits explains why the animators chose that course. Like the Tokyo arc, it is very likely next week is going to be something completely original to this adaptation, which has the advantage of buying time if the animators need it. The remaining battles still have enough airtime to be done properly, so going on a detour into Kenshin's past just after he left the battle of Toba-Fushimi is a chance to see what the animators can come up with as even the source material fans have nothing to rely on to judge the episode. Chou gets to show off more of his skills with his favourite weapon, something I don't remember was elaborated upon to this extent previously. He could have won easily against an injured Kenshin with no weapon, but arrogantly prolonging it for his amusement led to his downfall once Iori mustered the resolve to gift Kenshin his father's final legacy. The colour scheme for Kenshin's finishing strike is slightly darker than the previous adaptation (since this battle was set in a coming storm which later breaks) which aids the contrast with the later scene when everyone realises what the legacy blade truly is. Likewise, the flashback with Iori's father is also longer than I remembered. The main lines from the first adaptation are still there, but the conversation is slightly longer with more background info added. I'm also sure the VA has changed for Shakku, since the original person probably isn't around anymore to reprise the role. If I'm right and next week is an original episode, then that's a different surprise to look forward to with the main storyline taking a brief detour. The remake's original episode in Yokohama wasn't bad and very much in keeping with the tone of the series, so the animators don't have too high a bar to clear having chosen this approach. |
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Harleyquin
Posts: 3014 |
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#34
I guessed right: this episode is something original to this franchise and not part of the source material or first airing. Nonetheless it is an episode which wouldn't be out of place to the franchise as a whole, and the animators have given a nod to the OVA series which to this day is even better remembered than the animation which preceded it. Using one of the more obscure post-restoration battles as the setting, it is the animators' take on the first occasion Kenshin's unusual sword was first drawn in anger. From interviews with the creator it's known his chosen weapon was different from a wooden sword used in Dojos (like Kaoru's) because of how unrealistic that would be for what he had planned soon. Having the reverse-edged sword made it slightly less unbelievable, since the sharp edge of the sword if wielded correctly could still cut like a regular sword would. The animators' use of one entire episode to fill in some of the background behind its first draw is their intent to emphasise just how important the sword is to keeping Kenshin's mental state stable and away from his previous slayer past. Even if the episode's true intent is to buy time before the main action to come, it's a nice touch in the same vein as the Yokohama excursion from the previous Tokyo arc. Repeated shots of hydrangeas also hark back to his wife, who was associated with the flower as it bloomed best in the rain. The shot of the previous investigator with what should be a happy family also contrasts well with the Arai family Kenshin managed to save again using a reverse-edged sword. Back to the main story, and time to see who they're going to cast for the man named in the episode title. It has to be a good choice, as his role is also iconic. Last edited by Harleyquin on Thu Dec 12, 2024 7:18 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Gina Szanboti
Posts: 11681 |
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Cat hoarder alert!
What I liked most about the episode was the emphasis on how drawing the sakabatou means putting Kenshin at more risk than his opponent (unless of course he flips it). So not to be done lightly or in anger. It somehow reminded me of the world of the Darkover novels, where ranged weapons were outlawed by compact and only weapons that put the user at risk as well were permitted (not that that would be practically achievable). |
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Harleyquin
Posts: 3014 |
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#35
Back to the main story, which in retrospect doesn't have much because it's all about introducing Kenshin's master to his closest acquaintances. It's required though, because as it stands Kenshin will not be allowed to finish the training he abandoned midway through to join the revolutionary forces. Kaoru and the others have to play the not insignificant role of convincing Hiko Seijuro to change his mind. I don't actually remember how the original episode for this one played out, only that Kaoru and the others did have to travel to Hiko Seijuro's home. I don't think the signal flare was in the original though; from what I remember the spies found him faster and were able to tell Kenshin before he voluntarily departed. This adaptation probably emphasises Hiko Seijuro's reclusiveness more, and does a better job of explaining how Misao ended up at the hotpot restaurant. If anything, the visuals for the training arc pique my interest. I remember the waterfall from the first airing, and how two studios were in charge of the episodes even though it was better that only one (the better one was Madhouse) should have done the entire piece. This time round the colouring looks better, and the sparring session should be another opportunity for this adaptation's animators to showcase their skills. As for Hiko Seijuro himself, his facial design looks sharper compared to his first iteration. Narrower face and eyelids, although his muscular frame certainly hasn't changed from the first airing. As for the VA, they've chosen Nakamura Yuuichi who's done his best to reprise the previous VA's performance. The voices are definitely different; between the two I preferred the first VA's take but this one isn't bad by any means. At any rate there will be plenty of opportunities for the current Hiko Seijuro to show off his range. |
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