Forum - View topicNEWS: The Anime Network in Trouble?
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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MANY people saw it. I've got anecdotal evidence linking people who got into anime because of Sailor Moon, but even without that you can easily see the impact the show had. The networks even flirted with the (bad) idea of a live action Sailor Moon show. I GUARANTEE more people SAW (and probably LIKED) Sailor Moon than Fushigi Yuugi. I will definitely claim that as fact and am willing to lay statistics against one another on it if you have anything showing your opinion.
I did forget X, my apologies (altho X in generally considered a "cross-over" appeal title). Rayearth STARTED in Mixxzine, so at BEST coincided with Sailor Moon. It's UNDENIABLE that Sailor Moon was the flagship, as they tried to launch a new magazine by pulling to Moon fans to a "girl" magazine (Smile). (Also, prior to the current boom, "X" did not enjoy a "wide" release, I liked X, I own the LD movie box set for X, but the manga was a relative unknown before Animerica Extra, which was after Mixxzine)
The toys proved that business types respected the title enough to try to sell products to GIRLS based on it. Whether or not that WORKED is irrelevant. No other title BEFORE then would cause the companies to take such a risk. The fact that titles LATER brought sales showed that it didn't do so bad as to chase them off of it. But I will AGAIN point to another fairly undeniable statistic. Anime cons pre-Sailor Moon, had somewhere in the area of 80-90% MALE attendees. They are now closer to 50-50, and one of the most "overdone" female anime costumes (besides Final Fantasy girls) is any of the Sailor senshi. We're getting some distance so new fans will not be based on it as much, but the boom in female anime fans DEFINITELY comes from Sailor Moon. Fushigi Yuugi was only hitting the fansub areas in something like '96, when you could already buy Sailor Moon backpacks and suitcases. |
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littlegreenwolf
 Posts: 4796 Location: Seattle, WA |
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Sailor Moon started airing in 1995. It's possible it was licensed in 1994, but 1995 was the year it aired. CN aired the second sailor moon season before 2001. The second season was "Sailor Moon R", which consisted of the episodes with 'Rini' and the Doom Tree. Geneon picked up the S series AFTER outstanding subtitle sales of the Sailor Moon movies which they had out for quite a number of years beforehand. Sailor Moon wasn't even really out on dvd until shortly before the S release. I'm bored, so heres a sort of timeline 1995/1996 - Sailor Moon begins syndication 1997 Fall - Final 18 episodes of the 2nd season are dubbed and aired on YTV. 1999 - Pioneer releases the movies subtitled on VHS. The preorder of the Sailor Moon R movie hit spot #21 on Amazon's best selling list. Later, when the VHS was released, they were selling out everywhere, it made it to the #10 spot on Amazon's best selling list. This made it known to Pioneer there is indeed a very lively market for Sailor Moon uncut. 2001 January - Pioneer releases the features on DVD and VHS, along with a new dub, which made it's way to spot #7 on Amazon's best selling list. 2000 - ADV releases original dub of the first two seasons on VHS 2001 - Toonami airs the Sailor Moon R movie dubbed. 2001 - Guardians of order produce a Sailor Moon fanguide 2001 - Sailor Moon hits spot #72 on Lyco's top 100 searches. Gundam didn't even place. 2002 - Pioneer/Geneon begins releasing the 2rd and 4th seasons of Sailor Moon. 2002 April - ADV begins releasing the original dub on dvd 2002 April - CN brings back Sailor Moon to try and bring back ratings after loosing a large amount when they replaced Sailor Moon with Hamtaro 2002 July - CN permanetly removes Sailor Moon 2003 June - Toei announces a live action series for Japan. 2004 Jan - after 8 years of airing the show, YTV drops Sailor Moon. 2004 May - Program Exchange's airing/distro rights lost 2004 March - DIC's rights to the first 2 seasons expire, halting further production of ADV's dvd release of the first two seasons uncut, which were only out for not even a year. 2004 Dec - Geneon looses rights to the features 2005 Jan-June - Geneon looses rights to the 3rd and 4th seasons Present - Toei refuses any rights to sailor moon to be renewed. Cardcaptors didn't get ANYWHERE on network tv. Sailor Moon was the only shoujo anime that had the most sucess on North American television. Also, I'm not sure completely on this, but I believe Mixxzine/Tokyopop had the Sailor Moon manga BEFORE Magic Knight Rayearth. Last edited by littlegreenwolf on Fri Dec 10, 2004 7:36 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Isaaru
 Posts: 375 Location: the oppressed colonies in outer space |
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The sailormoon history is awesome.
But seriously. The issue I see here is far more grave. Its not just about TAN, or ADV's morality. Its about the biggest fear I've had about anime since I Disney bought the rights to Mizakayi's films. Very slowly, the large companies are realizing the heart of anime doesnt revolve around card game tie-ins, and Spirited Away. Its around us. Many of us spend the money and time to smaller companies like ADV, Geneon, Bandai, and Funi that they could have easily made if they caught on earlier. Take a good look at Comcast here.. http://www.cjr.org/tools/owners/comcast.asp and check out thier other venture earlier this year http://money.cnn.com/2004/02/11/news/companies/comcast_disney/ i can see why ADV is scared. especially if there making deals with SONY (who has NARUTO overseas). And if with Comcast and Sony cooperating with each other successfully within, the BIG TEN are sure to pay close attention... http://www.thenation.com/special/bigten.html and when it comes to licensing your favorite titles, they will easily edge out the likes of ADV, and others for those titles. and do you think these big guys are going to care about con panels, anime clubs, and what ANN opinions? For big comglomerates anime is a cheap whore they can use and abuse, and it will show to those who care (us) and eventually throw it out in the cold so they can go on to more younger candy. |
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GATSU
Posts: 15672 |
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Heero:
If that were the case, then Save Our Sailors would've stopped the show from being cancelled.
Why is it "bad" when Saban comes up with the idea, but when Toei actually goes for it, most likely for the same reasons, it's considered a success? And I remember one of the ANN columns which said Sailor Moon was on its way out around the time Toei made their own live-action version of the series.
The fansub circuit for both stated the opposite. FY was usually more likely to be traded/sold illegally on more sites which I visited than Sailor Moon.
Sailor Moon might've been the "flagship", but Mixxzine still folded in spite of the series. Tokyopop didn't really start making headway in the industry until they got the manga rights to CCS.
Viz had been doing manga anthologies long before Tokyopop. It's just that Animerica Extra was the one that actually proved lucrative for them.
Of course whether their toys sold is relevant! It supports your argument about whether the series was successful or not. And for the record, they always intended to sell toys off the franchise. One of the earliest commercials I saw for Sailor Moon wasn't for the anime, but for the toys; and that was before it even aired on tv.
Actually, I notice more girls cosplaying as characters from Utena than Sailor Moon.
You could, but whether anyone did is a different story. greenwolf:
I'll take your word for it.
Sorry, I meant S. R was long owned by DIC.
Geneon only picked up the Sailor Moon movies around the same time they picked up the rights to the first season of DBZ.
Well given that you cite vhs sales, for all you know, the dub versions of the film sold more than the subs, thus defeating your argument about a demand for the uncut version of the show. Also, you don't state for how long the movie stayed in those spots. In addition, Geneon still released FY and CCS on dvd before they went for more Sailor Moon, which obviously indicates a stronger fanbase for the former series than the latter one.
You mean North American cable television. North American network television is another story.
Perhaps, but CLAMP has also had more success here than Sailor Moon. Anyway, I'm shutting up now, unless it's related to the thread. |
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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The show was cancelled because they went through 2 seasons and just repeated them over and over. Just because a show went off the air eventually doesn't mean it wasn't successful, especially if there's no NEW material being made.
It was BAD because it was an attempt to cash in on the success of the franchise without thought to the franchise. Did you SEE the teaser? Think "politically correct team composition" (including a "physically challenged" girl) who had magical space "wind surfing" crafts. This was NOT Live Action Sailor Moon in the "direct translation" sense. It was bad in execution, not in "concept".
Sailor Moon was on BROADCAST tv. Let me repeat that. Sailor Moon was on BROADCAST TV! Adult Swim often wins the #1 slot on CABLE with something like 450k people watching, that's the number when they are the TOP, when they WIN the timeslot. For contrast, UPN (the station Sailor Moon ran on in my region IIRC) AVERAGED 3.6 MILLION viewers. More people may have DOWNLOADED Fushigi Yuugi, but I guarantee you more people WATCHED Sailor Moon. (and I have seen every single episode of Fushigi Yuugi including the gawdawful Eikoden)
Mixxzine folded SPECIFICALLY after they separated Sailor Moon from the magazine. Mixxzine was: Parasite, Ice Blade, Sailor Moon and Rayearth. Mixx (later TokyoPop) was not stupid, they KNEW Sailor Moon was their title, so they tried to launch a new mag with that as its core. The resulting PR mess led to the end of Mixxzine, and the new magazine (Smile) eventually folded more due to a combination of release problems, bad content (they added articles on "hip girl culture") and the realization that tankouban sold better.
None of them were shoujo tho, before Sailor Moon paved that road. Viz is the house that Takahashi built.
Maybe NOW, go look back 3-5 years ago, when Sailor Moon was in its heyday and showing companies that there was a market FOR Utena.
I know people who STILL own them. Sailor Moon also sold THREE domestic CDs. Name me ANY other shoujo anime, heck name me any anime at ALL (pre-2000, which is when Sailor Moon did it) that did that. Project A-Ko sold 1, and I think Akira had a soundtrack. Can any other title boast a CD soundtrack release (let alone _3_) in the US prior to 2000?
Look, I LIKE Fushigi Yuugi. I've cosplayed Fushigi Yuugi, I have friends who moderated Fushigi Yuugi fan circles, I kept up with the series when it was still running on Japanese TV and met Yuu Watase. FY is a good show, but it did NOT have the impact that Sailor Moon did. If you honestly believe it did, then you are SO insulated in the "fandom" world. Sailor Moon introduced a whole GENERATION of girls to anime, like Robotech introduced a whole GENERATION of fans to anime. Does that mean Robotech is a BETTER show than say Gundam? No, it is to say that in the _US_ it was a more IMPORTANT show. And because the manga was EQUALLY important (Sailor Moon was to TokyoPop what Yohko & Evangelion COMBINED were to ADV) shows the impact it had on the anime market/industry. I can find articles that mention Sailor Moon in local podunk town newspapers, I can meet facility managers who no nothing about anime whose daughters like it who won't know Evangelion from Digi Charat, but will know exactly what I mean if I say "Sailor Moon", I can show you a towel made in Mexico that has Sailor Moon on it. But more importantly, if I look, I COULD probably find you 20 people who have heard of Sailor Moon who have never heard of Fushigi Yuugi, do you think you can find any who have heard of Fushigi Yuugi but not Sailor Moon? Sailor Moon hasn't been the "Flavor of the Month" for at least 3-5 years, but the fact that these other shows are getting exposure IS due to Sailor Moon Levy said Sailor Moon is still a strong title for Mixx, so strong that one of the industry leaders asked him to speed up the release schedule. Diamond, the leading (and only major) comics distributor, asked Mixx to make Sailor Moon a monthly title, and Levy went along with the request, he said. (Fansview, Otakon, 1999) http://www.fansview.com/1999/070399d.htm Originally, the company was started in early 96 under the guise of localizing [bringing] comic books or manga from Japan and selling them as comic books within the comic book trade in the United States. We were fortunate to get Sailor Moon, which [was] one of our premier properties at that time. (John Parker, President & COO of TokyoPop) http://www.dvdvisionjapan.com/tokyopop.html |
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Kagemusha
 Posts: 2783 Location: Boston |
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I doubt that it could have had much success anyway. Things like Jiraishin and Rayearth don't mix very well. Sailor Moon probobly drew some girls in, but it's kind of pointless trying to appeal to the older male market with Parasite and Jiraishin (Ice Blade) when Viz had the vastly supirior PULP out which, since it ran for over six years I would call fairly successful, though obviously not as popular as Animerica Extra. It could have probobly continued, but around that time Viz changed its marketing plan and scrapped it. Too bad, considering its articles and features were far better than any in all other American manga magazine. I don't claim to be an expert on the subject, but considering Sailor Moon was fairly well known outside the anime community it's pretty difficult to deny its impact. |
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Haiseikoh 1973
 Posts: 1590 Location: Waiting for the Japanese 1000 Gunieas. |
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[quote="HeeroTX"]
Overdone? No offense, but some of those FF girls would make me turn gay in a millisecond (Lulu from FFX seems to have the worst offenders. There is a reason why Lulu wears a Corset ladies. Yuna (FFX or FFX-2) has to be second.). Ditto for the Sailor Moon cosplayers (Sailor Bubba excluded of course...we can forgive parody in this here United States (God Bless the First Amendment and Larry Flynt...). Some of them really don't fit, even with wigs on. |
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sailormoon
Posts: 1 |
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Found the following website with recent stories on TAN + Comcast/Select On Demand philosophy: check 'em out!
http://www.cableworld.com/cgi/cw/show_mag.cgi?pub=cw&mon=120604&file=programmingpreview.htm http://www.cableworld.com/cgi/cw/show_mag.cgi?pub=cw&mon=112204&file=qa1.htm |
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