Forum - View topicAnime Character Guessing Game, Q1-2010 Round
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zawa113
 Posts: 7360 |
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spoiler[Kayo from Mononoke]
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Kimiko_0
 Posts: 1796 Location: Leiden, NL, EU |
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Just in case ClassicalZawa isn't entirely correct, spoiler[Kayo from Ayakashi: Samurai Horror Tales part III, Bakeneko]
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kaizen-dono
 Posts: 383 Location: NE England |
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It's the same character so if no one had posted after Classicalzawa I probably would've accepted but I think the more accurate answer takes priority over the first given in this case.
Kimiko_0 is correct. |
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zawa113
Posts: 7360 |
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According to Rule 3B
And spoiler[Mononke] is the series' popular name, I don't see why putting the series under a different name should count any more. |
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kaizen-dono
Posts: 383 Location: NE England |
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Ayakashi is a different show entirely not an alternative title to Mononoke.
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zawa113
Posts: 7360 |
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I get that Mononoke is a spin-off from Ayakashi, but does that girl or does she not show up in the Mononoke series as well? If it's a crossover character, shouldn't either series she or he has appeared in count as correct, not necessarily just the series you happened to take the picture from? For example, Kenji Murasame has the exact same character design in both Giant Robo and Tetsujin 28 Go [2004], assuming I took the picture from one and not the other but it's still the same character and you cannot tell from the picture if I took it from one series or the other (no obvious background hint for example), why should I not award that point to whoever got him correct in at least one series first? It's still the same character in a series he showed up in where he had that character design. And Giant Robo is somewhat of a spin-off of Tetusjin 28 too (the 2004 remake just happened to use his Giant Robo character design exactly the same). Different characters who look the same (like Goten and kid Goku) are different characters, but not if it's the same character in two different but related series. VV Yeah, I really think we need to add a rules amend for this. In the manga character guessing game, I've purposely posted a pic of the main from Historie because he looks exactly like the main from Parasyte (it was still guessed correctly right away), but yeah, they were still two different characters from unrelated series (same author). But for example, Osamu Tezuka does tons of crossover stuff, it can be really tough to say where that exact picture of Shunsaku Ban might be from because he's in tons of series (to name a few, Metropolis, Astro Boy, Jungle Emperor Leo, and Black Jack) and in many cases he looks absolutely identical to his other counterparts to the point where a simple headshot would not allow you to differentiate the series and sometimes his whole outfit will only let you eliminate a few. If I were to say "nope, that was him from Astro Boy, not Metropolis" despite being the same character in the same outfit in a different series, that wouldn't be fair. I could say "he looks the same in both and even though it was Metropolis, A guessed a correct appearance first" Last edited by zawa113 on Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:15 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@
 Posts: 3498 Location: IN your nightmares |
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Leiji Matsumoto also does lots of crossover characters. He considers almost every show he's created to be all in the same general universe. It can be nightmare if you use Harlock as a character in this game because you might have people answering Harlock but each listing 4 different movies or shows he's been in, all with rather unrelated story lines. In that case, first answer wins. So I think classicalzawa gets the win here.
Last edited by P€|\||§_|\/|ast@ on Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Justin Bailey
 Posts: 221 |
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There are plenty of examples where someone who posted the picture discriminated between answers based on two characters who look the same. [1] [2] [3] Whether the person is discriminating between two characters who look the same or the same character in different titles, a guesser would either have to take a 1/n chance or recognize secondary attributes such as the scene depicted in the picture. I think the easiest way to handle this issue is to defer to the one who posted the picture, rather than to make a rule that attempts to (and will almost certainly fail at) defining how much detail is needed before someone can discriminate between two answers.
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Dorcas_Aurelia
 Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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The thing is, Justin, it's not two characters who look the same, it's the same character from two different but related series. Of course, there's still precedent for this, as I recall one of the earliest pictures was a cameo of one of the Kanon girls appearing in Air.
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zawa113
Posts: 7360 |
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I certainly understand posting a pic of a character with a doppelganger elsewhere, but then they're not really the same character. But as D_A says, the same character in two different series is a different situation. And like Past said, Leji Matsumoto is certainly a master of doing this as is Osamu Tezuka due to the star system (same character, different role and anime is still pretty much the same character). In your examples, Justin Bailey, they really were a different character and once the answer was revealed, it was obvious why. If I were to take a picture of Kenji Murasame with Giant Robo or Tetsujin in the background (like part of his head or something, and unlike Kenji, these two giant robots look quite different), it would be obvious and easy to argue that it was one series and not the other, but against something like an ordinary sky? Bit difficult to argue you took it from Giant Robo and not Tetsujin 28 Go [2004].
Ugh, I think we could use a mod in here for a few moments |
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DerekTheRed
 Posts: 3544 Location: ::Points to hand:: |
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There are a couple of precedents. I don't have access to my spreadsheet right now, but Fujiko from Lupin III has been posted a couple of times, and all the poster ever wants is the franchise. (I know Zenigata has been payed, and I think Goemon and Jigen too.) I posted Kei Yuuki from the Matsumoto universe. It was a shot from Endless Oddessey, but I would have accepted anything for the series as long as the name was right. I think I also posted Sexaroid Yuki who looks identical to Kei, except they have different eye colors. |
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kaizen-dono
Posts: 383 Location: NE England |
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You make a good argument but I’m not going to change my initial decision.
As far as I’m concerned it’s still kimiko_0’s turn. If you get a mod to interject or have the rules changed in your favour fair enough. I’m going to bed. |
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Justin Bailey
Posts: 221 |
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The major flaw with Dorcas and classicalzawa's arguments is as follows:
It tells us what the difference is between kaizen-dono's decision and the three examples I linked, but it doesn't point out why this difference should matter. To elaborate on what I wrote earlier on why the difference doesn't matter, consider the process a guesser has to go through. The guesser is confronted with a picture. Based on the character design, there will be n possibilities, whether it's a twin, imposter, clone, or the same character in different series, assuming we allow each distinction. The guesser has to rely on contextual clues to determine which is the correct one. In Key's case, the menacing expression and shadows suggest that it was the doppleganger. In my case, the funny face suggests that it's not the quiet scientist. The process would be exactly the same for the same character in different titles. In this instance, the picture was from Dolores. Although I accepted Idolo because it was quite close, the context strongly suggests Dolores, because the blurred rim is typical of flashback sequences, and the scene would be a flashback only in Dolores. Whether it's the same character in two series or two characters in one series, the guesser uses the same process of noting the contextual clues and making a selection based on those. Given that this is a game where people are expected to guess based primarily on the image they are shown, I see no useful difference between two characters from the same series who look the same and the same character in two difference series. |
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Kimiko_0
Posts: 1796 Location: Leiden, NL, EU |
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Hmm. I feel kinda bad about stealing ClassicalZawa's turn now
The third Ayakashi: Samurai Horror Tales episode was apparently the start of Mononoke, and that story (Bakeneko) appears as part of both anime. So yeah, the only reason to pick one answer over the other is which instance Kaizen-dono took the screenshot from. Otherwise they're identical. Not just a reused character, but a whole reused episode. So, uhm, do you mind if I give my turn to ClassicalZawa, Kaizen-dono? They did post four minutes earlier (I only saw their answer after I researched mine, but I can't prove that). |
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zawa113
Posts: 7360 |
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Thank you, Kimiko_0 (this is one of the few times I actually have a pic ready too). I'll admit that I've only seen Mononoke, did they really re-use an entire episode arc? If you've passed the turn back to me, I'll just post a pic for now and see if this mess goes anywhere later, but I really think a rule about this sort of thing needs to be amended. And I think the only way to prove you might've started research before someone else is usually along the lines of "dammit! too slow!" in the post
I just loved the brief flaming eyebrows. And sorry I got back late to post a pic, I needed to get Peeps. |
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