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Yttrbio
Joined: 09 Jun 2011
Posts: 3666
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Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 2:30 pm
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I didn't get the feeling their rapport was building, so much as it was just being turned on/off. One second he's hiding to avoid being seen together, then he's laying out the design like a pro (which he brought with him, despite deciding to try to avoid her in school), then he's blushing in the underwear shop, then he's loudly talking about eroge in public, then he's freaking out about an indirect kiss. The second episode similarly had the on/off switch. Manga readers may be bringing in their knowledge from the see the progression, but I can see very little of it in the anime. And similarly, Marin has been going full-speed ahead since the moment he agreed to help her, and aside from a nod towards not getting much traction with other people, I don't see any actual evolution.
I'm also not clear on her relationship with her friends. She's clearly not keeping her interests a secret, did she never ask them for help on anything (e.g. with measurements)? She doesn't listen to them when they point out Wakana's discomfort, either. Are we supposed to be seeing their friendship as shallow or limited, or is it just convenient writing (which is how it seems to me, and why it seems very Manic Pixie Dream Girl)?
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NeverConvex
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Joined: 08 Jun 2013
Posts: 2484
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Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:15 pm
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He's clearly still not comfortable with their relationship, and yeah, I agree there was still kind of a wild bit-flipping he's-totally-freaking-out/oh-they're-friends-and-he's-cool-with-it sort've oscillation to episode 3. If episode 2 was 90% his head on the ground and him apologizing for nothing, though, episode 3 felt like maybe 40% of that to me, I suppose. Or, to put it another way: aside from eroge-cosplay and flirting, the largest part of their relationship so far seems to consist of him repeatedly thinking he should be set on fire over social minutiae he's completely unacquainted with, and Marin repeatedly throwing a bucket of water on him. In episode 2, I got the sense that no matter how much water she hit him with, he was still at least running at a low burn and waiting to flare up again, while in episode 3, it seemed to me she was actually beginning to get through to him on some level.
I also liked that there was a lot of genuine banter in episode 3, as well as a great deal more variety to their socializing/costuming. In episode 2, I pretty much zoned out for large parts of the episode because they were zoomed in so closely on minor details of the same basic component of costume-making, but episode 3 had enough diversity to keep my attention easily throughout.
EDIT:
Yttrbio wrote: | Are we supposed to be seeing their friendship as shallow or limited, or is it just convenient writing (which is how it seems to me, and why it seems very Manic Pixie Dream Girl)? |
My impression was that we're meant to see her current friendships as mostly pretty shallow, yeah -- at least, in the sense that they're too put off by her eroge stuff to show genuine interest in it, and mostly just humor her politely when she brings it up, or recommends a game, or whatever (which makes her relationship with Gojo feel more organic and a little less MPDG to me, per the bridge scene). I assume/hope the series'll explore this a bit more as it moves forward.
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Piglet the Grate
Joined: 25 May 2021
Posts: 738
Location: North America
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Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 4:38 pm
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Yttrbio wrote: |
I'm also not clear on her relationship with her friends. She's clearly not keeping her interests a secret, did she never ask them for help on anything (e.g. with measurements)? She doesn't listen to them when they point out Wakana's discomfort, either. Are we supposed to be seeing their friendship as shallow or limited, or is it just convenient writing (which is how it seems to me, and why it seems very Manic Pixie Dream Girl)? |
Does Marin have friends, or just hangers on hoping some of her popularity will rub off on them if they are seen regularly with her?
Marin could be HFA (high functional autistic - takes one to know one) in that she appears very bad at reading the people around her. Particularly since NTs (neurologically typical) often say A and mean B, and also expect others to know that they mean B when they say A.
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dm
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Joined: 24 Sep 2010
Posts: 1454
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Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 10:48 pm
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Yttrbio wrote: | (which he brought with him, despite deciding to try to avoid her in school), |
I'm not sure he decided to avoid her at school until he overheard those girls saying "Is she going out with that guy? No way!"
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Yttrbio
Joined: 09 Jun 2011
Posts: 3666
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Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 11:22 pm
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Piglet the Grate wrote: | Does Marin have friends, or just hangers on hoping some of her popularity will rub off on them if they are seen regularly with her?
Marin could be HFA (high functional autistic - takes one to know one) in that she appears very bad at reading the people around her. Particularly since NTs (neurologically typical) often say A and mean B, and also expect others to know that they mean B when they say A. |
I guess it's just a matter of faith in the author at this point. Are they being portrayed that way because we're meant to be asking these questions (not that autism is required for failing to read people), or are they just being portrayed in this way for convenience in plotting? Maybe manga readers have seen enough to have this faith, but that doesn't do anime viewers any good.
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lossthief
ANN Reviewer
Joined: 14 Dec 2012
Posts: 1440
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Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 12:11 am
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I dunno, it ironically seems kind of quick to judge Marin's friend group based on what little we've seen of them, or to immediately declare that their relationships are "shallow" or whatever. While they don't seem to share her interest in anime/eroge, it doesn't mean they have nothing in common or are judgmental towards her for it. If nothing else they've yet to show any kind of Mean Girl style cattiness you sometimes seem from Gal characters in anime. They lightly teased Gojo over looking so intimidated by them, but otherwise were perfectly friendly with him, considering they'd never spoken to him before.
As for Gojo's actions, everything he does this episode makes sense considering both what we know about his personality and the context of each given scene. He's initially timid around Marin and her friends, but only starts avoiding her when he realizes people are gossiping about them. Gojo's got a lot of internalized shame and anxiety about people he doesn't know paying attention to him and possibly judging him, so he overreacts and tries to distance himself so as not to draw attention - while rationalizing it as him trying to protect Marin from rumors.
When it's just him and Marin, away from anyone they might know at school, he relaxes and starts getting into the task at hand, since he's most comfortable with topics he knows a lot about and already trusts Marin. Then he's shaken out of that comfort zone at the underwear shop because he's totally unused to any of that, and is self-conscious about seeming "creepy" as the only guy there and drawing attention to himself. This feels especially true to life considering how many full grown men I've seen quick step past the tampon aisles at a store, or the Intimates section of a clothing shop.
And the reason he's not self-conscious when they're talking about eroge is that he's caught up in the conversation with Marin, and not paying attention to the people around them. It's still consistent with everything else we've seen about Gojo's personality - he's awkward and clumsy when he's worrying about how people are analyzing him, but once he stops focusing on that he's more comfortable, casual even. If anything I think this is all a great way to organically demonstrate his personality in different settings, giving is a more rounded idea of who he is and how he thinks rather than just being an anxious mess 24/7.
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09jcg
Joined: 19 Sep 2006
Posts: 533
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Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 4:09 am
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Some interesting art choices in this episode. Some scenes looked like they were photos with a filter placed on top of them, sort of like how some visual novels make their backgrounds. Seems like an efficent way to deal with whats probabbly a hectic schedule over at cloverworks
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helln00
Joined: 01 Apr 2016
Posts: 106
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Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 6:14 am
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So after watching 3 eps I also found that ep 2 felt strangely repetitive and I agreed with what was said by Key a few pages back that its more the repetitiveness of Gojo's reaction that felt drawn out (and also something else, mainly a lack of communicative back and forth between them, the drama of the ep was kinda all seen in Gojo's head).
I decided to reread the chapters in the manga and they didn't felt the same. The events are the same so the only reason I can come up with is that the way a manga is structured, as sort of self contained skits and events makes my brain interpret it differently. Like the events of ep 2 is split across 2-3 chapters and like all the times that Gojo was being embarrassed happen only about 1-2 times per chapter so in I guess my brain doesn't register that Gojo is being embarrassed like 4 times in a single sitting but only 1-2 times. I guess this is just a case of changing the adaptation format having some weird interactions.
Ep 3 was also a mash of a few chapters but the events of the chapters were distinct enough that they didn't feel repetitive, so I guess ep 2 just had unique circumstances.
The show however still has that annoying romcom thing of like the relationship between the two mains being sort of only be shown to the audience and not the the mains themselves, its very much a case of them crushing on each other and finding new things that they love about each other while not communicating (or being a one way communication) and I just find that annoying.
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Key
Moderator
Joined: 03 Nov 2003
Posts: 18394
Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)
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Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:03 pm
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NeverConvex wrote: | Happy to say I enjoyed the third episode a lot more than the second. There was some sexy Marin-to-Gojo teasing, but it always seemed very well-integrated into building their rapport, and the episode was littered with charming banter and small, meaningful moments building their relationship (like her comment to Gojo on the bridge). |
This was almost exactly my reaction to episode 3 as well. It moved along much more smoothly, and a lot less repetitively, than episode 2, and the level of back-and-forth communication seemed distinctly better. I like the direction their relationship is going even if it does end up being strictly platonic.
lossthief wrote: | It's still consistent with everything else we've seen about Gojo's personality - he's awkward and clumsy when he's worrying about how people are analyzing him, but once he stops focusing on that he's more comfortable, casual even. If anything I think this is all a great way to organically demonstrate his personality in different settings, giving is a more rounded idea of who he is and how he thinks rather than just being an anxious mess 24/7. |
Yeah, I noticed that, too, and give the show credit for pulling that off.
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moroboshi-kun
Joined: 17 Feb 2007
Posts: 65
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Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2022 5:40 pm
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I am enjoying this show waaaaay more than I thought I would. While I can enjoy some fan-service, I am long past the point in my life when that alone will get me to spend any meaningful amount of time on a show. And this has become one where I finish the episode and immediately want the next one to come out.
I feel like it's taken elements that could be trite or shallow in a lesser work and made them actually work for the narrative. I laughed my butt off during the second episode, but I also appreciated that everything seemed to lean into character development.
Marin in particular is on her way to being a favorite character. I actually knew several like her in high school, who were pretty, trendy (it's not a bad word), and popular, but also friendly to everyone and likeable. Maybe I'm sort of layering my memories of them on top of her, but I appreciate seeing Marin's insecurities and I'm looking forward to seeing her more fleshed out (no pun intended).
I also have to confess I've had an interest in cosplay myself for a while, and this may motivate me to learn to use the sewing machine sitting we have. Thank goodness for youtube "how to" videos...
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FilthyCasual
Joined: 01 Jun 2015
Posts: 2343
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Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:04 pm
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Lots of great comedic moments, whether it's Marin lamenting to the heavens in the gym or Gojo's disapproving hina doll. My favorite parts were Marin tugging him into the light and the light shining on both of them as they opened up on the bridge; great use of classic light symbolism. The shopping was entertaining; it's always nice seeing the amount of thought that people put into their hobby.
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KitKat1721
Joined: 03 Feb 2015
Posts: 969
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Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:37 pm
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Totally agree with AJ regarding the details shown in Ep 3! Brings me back to pre-COVID days of going through the fabric store looking for the exact right matte leather for my cosplay jacket because I specifically didn't want anything super shiny/too "latex-looking." A wig shop like that would have especially been really nice!
Also RIP Gojo that outfit seems a bit too involved to just work on after school and finish in just two-weeks.
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Florete
Joined: 21 Jan 2018
Posts: 377
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Posted: Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:14 pm
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Probably a minor thing that most people won't even think of, but I'm really happy Gojo didn't pay for anything. He's basically going to be working for free as it is, it'd be totally wrong for him to also pay for the materials.
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AnimeFlyz
Joined: 31 Aug 2015
Posts: 375
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Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:23 am
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lossthief wrote: | I dunno, it ironically seems kind of quick to judge Marin's friend group based on what little we've seen of them, or to immediately declare that their relationships are "shallow" or whatever. While they don't seem to share her interest in anime/eroge, it doesn't mean they have nothing in common or are judgmental towards her for it. If nothing else they've yet to show any kind of Mean Girl style cattiness you sometimes seem from Gal characters in anime. They lightly teased Gojo over looking so intimidated by them, but otherwise were perfectly friendly with him, considering they'd never spoken to him before.
As for Gojo's actions, everything he does this episode makes sense considering both what we know about his personality and the context of each given scene. He's initially timid around Marin and her friends, but only starts avoiding her when he realizes people are gossiping about them. Gojo's got a lot of internalized shame and anxiety about people he doesn't know paying attention to him and possibly judging him, so he overreacts and tries to distance himself so as not to draw attention - while rationalizing it as him trying to protect Marin from rumors.
When it's just him and Marin, away from anyone they might know at school, he relaxes and starts getting into the task at hand, since he's most comfortable with topics he knows a lot about and already trusts Marin. Then he's shaken out of that comfort zone at the underwear shop because he's totally unused to any of that, and is self-conscious about seeming "creepy" as the only guy there and drawing attention to himself. This feels especially true to life considering how many full grown men I've seen quick step past the tampon aisles at a store, or the Intimates section of a clothing shop.
And the reason he's not self-conscious when they're talking about eroge is that he's caught up in the conversation with Marin, and not paying attention to the people around them. It's still consistent with everything else we've seen about Gojo's personality - he's awkward and clumsy when he's worrying about how people are analyzing him, but once he stops focusing on that he's more comfortable, casual even. If anything I think this is all a great way to organically demonstrate his personality in different settings, giving is a more rounded idea of who he is and how he thinks rather than just being an anxious mess 24/7. |
100% I couldn't have said it any better.
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Gina Szanboti
Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 11555
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Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:54 am
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meiam wrote: | ...if you passed by a Victoria Secret store there shouldn't be any mannequin with underwear and guy looking at them would be a big taboo. |
Heh, little known fact - Victoria's Secret was originally created by a married couple, explicitly so that men could shop for women's sexy lingerie without feeling like unwelcome perverts.
Now that we've gotten a good look at the outfit they're making, it doesn't look all that risqué to me. She'll barely have any skin showing at all - just her face, hands and the pseudo boob window created by the tie covering her cleavage.
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