Forum - View topicThe Summer 2017 Anime Preview Guide
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Xavon
Posts: 374 Location: Minnesota |
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I was worried about K&M going in, and the first episode has done almost nothing to assuage those fears. Slamming through 75% of the first book in one episode, and changing a bunch of things for no good reason.
Plus I hate, hate, HATE that the stupid subtitles chose to render 'Eru' as 'Ernie'. It 2017 and proper names are proper names. Stop changing them because you think that the viewers are idiots that need English names. |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18268 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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It's much more the latter than the former.
Eru is a nickname, not the proper name, for the character based on the way Ernesti is pronounced in Japanese. However, that would make no sense with the way the name is pronounced in English. Ernie accomplishes the same thing (i.e., shortening the name based on initial sound), as well as being the traditional way to shorten that name in English. Hence it's an entirely appropriate transliteration and not some evil attempt to Americanize the name. |
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Jonny Mendes
 Posts: 997 Location: Europe |
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Surprise!! I will not spoil you about the content in the story but gay people are part of the plot of Love & Lies, at least in the manga. I hope they don't change it in the anime. Last edited by Jonny Mendes on Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:09 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18268 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Okay, now I'm a lot more curious about where the story is going, since there's zero indication of that in the first episode. |
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23909 |
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Key already stated briefly that Tanya was more of a serious exploration of the concept as opposed to an otaku service show and I'm just following up with a little more detail (since I agree with him). The MC in Tanya is not an otaku or otaku stand-in character. He is an spoiler[adult salaryman who has decided the path to the easy life is not to rock any corporate waves. When he is reincarnated (as punishment for not believing in "God") he carries his cynical, bureaucratic attitude with him] which is a source of wry humour. Even though Tanya is clearly a lolita character, the show doesn't actually exploit the device in a cheap way like other, lesser shows probably would. For one thing, the seiyuu makes no attempt to sound "cute" except on the rare occasion where she needs to play act. The battle scenes are spectacular and the overall visual look very cool. The ongoing battle between Tanya and spoiler["God"] is highly amusing. None of which is to say that you would necessarily like the show. But I feel reasonably confident that if you didn't, it wouldn't be because it's the kind of otaku pandering crapfest you seem to think it might be. |
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TarsTarkas
 Posts: 5891 Location: Virginia, United States |
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The world of Love & Lies has to be more nightmarish than what the show will actually show. Selection based on genetics, caste, position in society fails to account for other more important features of marriage.
Would you want to be forced into a marriage with a hidden sociopath? What about your arranged spouse who is sadist, who can't wait to get you in bedroom behind a locked door. Not to mention the fact, that there will be plenty of men, who will see the government sanctioned arranged marriage as a license to treat their arranged partners (or rather prisoners) as property, whose only purpose is too make babies, serve their master's sexual and domestic needs. I find it quaint that some people think that this could never 'ever' happen, that people wouldn't choose such a society concept. They forget that there are plenty of men who fail to find love or even women to be with, that would love for the government to "DOLE" women to them. Which is what this boils down to really be, a dole service for men, who are issued women to "make babies". But it is the process of making those babies that will drive the men. And if you get tired of your government issued baby maker, you can always go out drinking all night and get in a bunch of one night stands for something new. Also, there would be plenty of women interested in arranged marriages, while significantly lower than the men, because of what was described above. The propaganda campaign for such legislation would be directed at both men and women. A lot of women would drink the cool-aid. (is the actual spelling of this drink product protected by ANN?) This concept for this show is nightmarish, which would be good if they were going to show that, but it doesn't sound or look like that. It is like that NBC apocalypse (light) TV show Revolution. The one that doesn't have any human cannibals in it, or groups farming humans for food. At least The Walking Dead got that right. |
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ChibiKangaroo
 Posts: 2941 |
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I do recall reading about the fact that the MC in Tanya is not technically an otaku, but just going on the reviews, it seemed like the character was somewhat of a loner or outsider and when he gets reincarnated in the new world, his antisocial nature benefits him. Also, he quickly becomes exceptional/superior to most if not all of his peers which seems to be a basic component of most of the current trend of "otaku transported to another realm" stories of late, whether the video game world or just an alternate reality of sorts. So when I am talking about service, I am almost purely speaking of it in the sense of otaku escapism, not the sexual kind. I do think the idea of a guy who was "part of the machine" breaking free and raging against all authority spoiler[(up to and including god him/herself)] and "winning" to some degree, or at least being superior to everyone around him, is definitely otaku service. Maybe at some point I'll go back and watch the show, but that is what the reviews and discussion about the show (particularly the ANNcast episodes where Zac and others talked about it) indicated to me, so that's why I was turned off to it. I am definitely getting a very different vibe from Knight's & Magic. It doesn't have a similar feeling of service to me. But I suppose you can take my thoughts on any perceived differences with a grain of salt, since my thoughts on Tanya are coming from someone who was turned off to the show by reviews/discussion. |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23909 |
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@ CK - we don't learn enough about the MC as a salaryman to know if he is a loner or outsider. I would not classify him as anti-social, either. It's true that in the new world, Tanya's magical abilities are stronger than most, but the other thing that makes her formidable is that she applies the lessons for getting ahead in the Japanese corporate world to her advancement in the military as well as on a tactical level, which is quite funny. Anyway, that's enough of my sales job. There is so much anime out there I can't really recommend that somebody take the time to check out something they are already biased against, even if I think there is a chance they might end up liking it.
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
 Posts: 3524 Location: Bellevue, WA |
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As has already been said, Tanya isn't an otaku. At all. In his original life, he was a very successful salaryman. We first see him sitting behind a large desk in his own office, firing someone, rather coldly. He is *not* against this system. Quite the opposite: he believes in *using* the system to get what he wants, just like pretty much every salaryman does, only he is better at it and more successful at it than most. He is absolutely not an "against the system" kind of guy. As for being anti-social... that's only true in a certain way. He certainly has no qualms using socializing and social norms to his advantage. He is a pretty cold, and mostly lacks empathy. But he is also very smart and capable, and the kind of person who will do most anything to get ahead. Once he gets reincarnated as Tanya, he remembers his past life *from the very start* of his life (now as a girl), and is basically the mind of a grown man stuck in that of a toddler, and later a little girl. He has an extreme compatibility with magic, and immediately tries to use that to get ahead (Tanya is an orphan). All of the big things that Tanya does while in the military are her attempts to get placed somewhere where she *doesn't have to fight* and can just skate up the ranks without facing any danger, make some money, and end up doing some cushy job. Tanya *does not* want to be a hero, and is basically disgusted by acts of heroism -- she acts out of self-interest at nearly all times. Seriously, nothing about Tanya is otaku-bait, heroic-chasing, or self-insertish. The show explicitly has her avoid those tropes. You *could* just drop 20 minutes of your life into watching the first episode (or, better, 40 minutes into watching the first two episodes), then you'd be able to form a pretty solid opinion of the show instead of getting long-winded replies like this one. That's what I'd recommend you do, but of course that's up to you to decide. I think it's a pretty novel show, and worth at least checking out. |
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ChibiKangaroo
Posts: 2941 |
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^ @Blood-
Well thanks for the information. I do give some weight to your opinions on shows, so if you liked it maybe I should give it another chance. Regarding Knight's & Magic, my thoughts on the first episode are that overall I enjoyed the look of it and the narrative is definitely more in line with traditional fantasy fare that I tend to gravitate toward, so the show is already starting in a place that is favorable for me. It is hard not to like Ernie. His cuteness is slightly over the top at times, but he is just grounded enough that I feel like he is a good lead. I also like that he is respectful and not one of these cocky kids you see in other shows. Whenever you have a young kid protagonist who is exceptionally gifted, they really need to inject a healthy dose of modesty and respectfulness to keep them from becoming annoying. So far, so good. However, I do think the questions relating to his awareness of his old life have been left open in kind of a sloppy way. It's not clear if he has been self aware of his reincarnation since he could first form thoughts, or if he just started to realize it recently. It would be nice to have that fleshed out one way or another. I think my biggest gripe with the first episode is Addy. The writer has already gone out of their way to make Ernie extremely cute. It is unnecessary to have a female friend who's primary purpose in most scenes is to dote after him, "squee" and cling to him because she thinks he's so adorable. I know that's a thing in anime, but in most instances it's a bad thing. Characters shouldn't exist primarily to fill in a particular trope. Hopefully she will be given more depth later. Anyway, I'm going to keep up with the show. it looks promising thus far. |
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Swissman
Posts: 772 Location: Switzerland |
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The designs are a bit strange, I agree. They're faithful to the source manga, though. On a positive note about the series, I quite like some of the background music during the quiet moments. Has anybody else picked up the BGM? |
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Agent355
 Posts: 5113 Location: Crackberry in hand, thumbs at the ready... |
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I watched a couple episodes of Tanya and basically agree with ChibiKangaroo. A character doesn't have to literally be an otaku to be wish fulfillment. Many naturally gifted characters that almost always win in the end could be defined as "wish fulfillment" characters, and there's nothing necessarily wrong with that. But there's something about Tanya that didn't sit well with me, and I think Tuor_of_Gondolin points it out here:
That's pretty much one of the definitions of a psychopath: Someone who lacks empathy, but is able to manipulate social relationships to their own advantage. That's not the kind of protagonist I can root for.
I don't think that makes Tanya less otaku-bait or wish fulfillment. Light from Death Note was similar--it became clear early on that he had no empathy towards others and used his intelligence to become very powerful while minimizing risk to himself. Light didn't mind killing others or putting others in danger to protect himself. He was also not an otaku--yet I would argue that many otaku saw Light as wish fulfillment and rooted for him, even when it became clear that he was the antagonist. That never sat right with me. My favorite part of Death Note was Light getting his comeuppance at the end. Love and Lies--I haven't seen the episode yet, but I tried to read the manga and found the premise underdeveloped. It's not exactly unrealistic, though--you don't have to look very far to find cultures that arrange marriages, even today. In fact, it's pretty recent that *non-arranged* marriages weren't the norm in most cultures. |
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ChibiKangaroo
Posts: 2941 |
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This was the primary reason that Death Note remains as one of my top anime of all time. The writing made him into a sort of appealing bastard who they knew some of the audience would identify with, and yet they still had the balls at the end to make him face final judgment without playing any games. It was pretty much the most perfect ending I think I have seen in any show. |
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meiam
Posts: 3442 |
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Just as a quick final point, if you weren't bothered by K&M main character you'll almost certainly won't have a problem with Tanya. K&M isn't very far off Kirito as far as otaku wish/power fulfilment goes. In both case character are very good right off the bat at magic but Tanya has far less "cheerleading squad" even her subordinate consider her off and pretty much accept that she's a psychopath, whereas Ernie already has a girl that hug him every occasion she gets, a best male friend and an older student council president all that within the first episode. |
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ChibiKangaroo
Posts: 2941 |
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It's possible I might be ok with it. The thing about otaku wish fulfillment, there's a certain kind that I can watch and be more or less satisfied with, and certain others that kind of kill a show for me. I watched both of the first two seasons of SAO and the gun season (I think that was season 3?). I criticized SAO a lot throughout, mainly for its pretty shallow female characters and the mostly terrible villains. However, it was still an enjoyable show for me and I can't deny that Kirito is an appealing character. He was clearly an overpowered wish fulfillment character, but he was also a very aspirational character which allows one to accept his ridiculous abilities to some degree. It's kind of like comic book heroes, Superman/Supergirl for example - indestructable god-like heroes who have every skill you could want and high intelligence, but due to their aspirational nature, you can accept that they are over powered. Kirito has some of that I think. In that context, maybe it is better that Kirito had a cheering squad so to speak. So, maybe Ernie will turn out like Kirito as you have indicated. The cheering squad keeps the protagonist grounded in that we see him or her interacting positively with more normal people who are like us, so perhaps keeps them more relatable? If Ernie had no friends (or like Light Yagami, had only acquaintances that he used and abused) it might put him into more of an un-relatable position where we don't necessarily aspire to become like that person, but instead simply gain some satisfaction by temporarily imagining ourselves as them as a more pure form of temporary escapism. Maybe that's the difference between a Kirito and a Tanya. |
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