Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Dragon Ball Super
|
Goto page Previous Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
gedata
 Posts: 615 |
|
|||||||
spoiler[Ehhhhh. Asides from being a bit more proactive (actually wishing for immortality) his God-complex just got progressively flanderized to the point where the only difference between him and other megalomaniacs like Freeza is that he keeps spouting "justice" over and over again. This could've been mitigated maybe if he had some sort of plan to create a better world in place but nothing of the sort ever materialized. The series never made even attempted to make an argument for how Zamasu kinda sorta might be right in the long run, so the idea of his actions being for some "greater good" just went to waste since his entire plan seemed to be 1. Get unstoppable, Godly power 2. Exterminate the filthy ningens 3. ????? 4. Profit He got progressively less interesting is what I'm trying to say. Credit where it's due, the seiyuu work for both Zamasus was pretty stellar. Neat how Nozawa just channeled Zamasu's smarmy doucheyness into her Goku and all.] Despite my hangups, I actually almost agree that this was the best arc since the Cell Games. I'd still give the edge to the Majin Buu arc slightly. I don't know. Going to have to sit on this one until the last episode of the arc comes out. Here's hopin' the manga doesn't disappoint me at least. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
Black Turtle
 Posts: 110 |
|
|||||||
|
You pretty much said it in your title. The thing with DBS is that it lacks stakes. In DBZ, their loss meant the end, the world is destroyed. In super, the only time it was like this was the first arc. The resurection of freezer arc didn't feel like thread, but mainly because it was badly writted, with krillin freaking out about trash mobs when even Roshi could beat them, Piccolo and Gohan loosing to freaking Ginue, that just exchanged body. Because of all those stupid things, it never felt like a serious arc. The tournament arc was a tournament, and, even if it was good, had no stakes.
Now, Blamasu arc don't really give the feeling there are stakes. Because most of the heroes just chill down in their reality, with no problem. Even if they lost, that would not change anything for all the others. Plus the fact that Goku and Vegeta are beaten twice and just go back in security add to that. If they ever lost, they could just have taken Trunks with them and live an happily, because their reality was safe, since Zamasu was already dead, and if he ever wanted to come back in time, he would have had to face Bills. In the end they were only in the danger they put themselves in. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
ARC-1300
 Posts: 361 |
|
|||||||
|
I honestly am fine with the way things turned out. It's nice to see some of the main cast lose some every now and than. Refreshing even. It was his (future trunks) problem to begin with,it only seems fitting that he would be the one to fix it this time.Many people complain (in this very comments section even) that the stakes are low,and it's very hard to disagree. The least they can do is just surprise us with the outcome,and they have.
I'm honestly curious about the reviewers take on the battle of the gods movie,and if he found it lame that goku had lost ,as I found that too enjoyable as well. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
Encore22
Posts: 63 |
|
|||||||
|
Hate how they treated Vegito, you can't just bring out Vegito and have him appear weak. He is supposed to be the very manifestation of power, He should absolytely destroy Zamasu, he should appear so powerful that the community would debate wether he is stronger than Whiz and Beerus.
Then it could be fine if Vegito let Zamasu live for a bit too long out of excessive pride and they ended up splitting up before defeating him and Trunks got the finishing blow on a weakened Zamasu. But no, LET'S MAKE VEGITO LOOK LIKE A PUSSY INSTEAD They just brought him out, there was nothing special about it... They were like, hey here's that guy who we have ever only seen once in the story and is supposed to be the very symbol of ultimate power. Anyways, here he is... No cool music, no cool powerup, no cool attack, no asskicking, nothing, they even showed him in the [expletive] episode preview... Like, with the fight this way, it made absolutely no sense at all for [expletive] Trunks to defeat him. If Zamasu had been absolutely destroyed by Vegito beforehand, and then had a final clash with a desperate Trunks where he realizes JOJO-style that Vegito has weakened him more than he thought which leads to Trumps cutting him in half. AT LEAST THAT WOULD HAVE MADE SENSE AND BEEN [expletive] COOL. But no, we get nonsensical kill, [expletive] PUSSY Vegito and nakama power instead. 
|
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
ARC-1300
Posts: 361 |
|
|||||||
|
Content above me
Except vegeto was kicking his ass, unfortunately he just ran out of time/energy. The while issue with power levels isn't exactly special to super, it pretty much fluctuates at wild rates all the time throughout the entire series. Calm the heck down |
||||||||
|
||||||||
AkaRed
 Posts: 411 |
|
|||||||
|
This isn't nakama power for damn sakes !
This is Genki-dama Spirit Bomb (元気玉, Genki Dama; lit. "Energy Sphere") is a powerful attack in Dragon Ball, widely considered to be the strongest attack in the series, but depends on the number of organisms supporting its use. In the manga, it is used only a total of four times. Users of the Spirit Bomb gather huge amounts of energy from all chosen surrounding life forms and inanimate objects to conduct that energy into a massive sphere of astounding destructive power. Energy takes the visual form of sparkling, glittering wisps when adding to the mass that are usually blue and/or white in color. The creation of the attack promotes a calm breeze away from the bomb, which turns into a strong continuous gale and expels colorful bands or radiation of Northern Lights-esque aurora. The Spirit Bomb is quite swift when used and, if the user is not careful, it can absolutely obliterate a planet. spoiler[At one point during the combat between Trunks and Merged Zamasu, Trunks by cheer concentration and focus on Killing only Zamasu was able to trigger what is needed to gather energy ki from life form, that's why we saw palmtree, Flower and even cat having a halo of light surrounding them. With this he was able to kill Zamasu. So explain to me the nakama power with goddamn plant like Flower and palmtree ?] So please stop with this nakama nonsense that'd be great ! |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
Encore22
Posts: 63 |
|
|||||||
I disagree, Boo vs Vegito, that was an asskicking. This was more, I'm 5% stronger than you, so ill win slowly, lame. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
Valhern
 Posts: 916 |
|
|||||||
|
This minute alone by Naotoshi Shida was better than almost everything in the Vegetto's original DBZ arc which consisted mostly of still shots, a lot off-model, and extreme overstretching of a fight that lasted two chapters in the manga.
At its worse, Vegetto was mostly fanservice because any other method was as valid to "weaken" Zamasu so Trunks would defeat him. At its best, it was the perfect portrayal of the cockiest Saiyajin possible. My only takeaway is (besides that I really don't like the Blue SSJ colour) that the Final Kamehameha felt pretty lackluster, I expected a Big Bang Kamehameha as a shoutout to Gogeta which had a cooler pose and form, but yeah, there was no time to hire a "beams" expert to make it more awesome. And at its worse of this episode, like many others in Super, it fails to convey a real sense of cool sometimes. Father-Son Galick Gun? Awesome. Trunks magically popping out a Genkidama to make his sword a laser sword? Eh... At least the imagery was not as cool as it could have been, so it ended up looking a little dumb because it's literally a straight broad sword with blue borders, very unndynamic looking and yeah, that. That's mainly my biggest problem with Super, it has a wild range between cool (like thhe Kaio Ken) and kinda cringeworthy stuff like Black Goku making a scyte out of injuring himself. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
BadNewsBlues
Posts: 6069 |
|
|||||||
Which is why the manga version of that fight was so awful.
.......You act as if they still couldn't do that.
Aside from the fact Black has been causing immense amounts of trouble for Trunks....that and few people wanted to see Goku or any version of him deliver the coup de grace.
Cherrytapping isn't cool......nor would it had made sense in this instance. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
Valhern
Posts: 916 |
|
|||||||
I'm okay with it considering Vegetto's whole purpose was hold its own for long enough to get trapped by Buu and save everyone, not defeat Buu (which we don't know if he could do that since Universal Genkidama just outrules everything else in terms of destroy power). Vegetto was likeable in the manga just for taking the really charismatic cockiness of Saiyajins but also being smart. While the anime added some good stuff, most of it was not really that much worth it. I think Super had the best representation of Vegetto's lackadasicalness against Zamasu's...edginess? I won't lie that maybe I'd have preferred for the Buu arc to end with a final super fight with Vegetto vs Kid Buu since they could've have been defused after that but given his role, I think that what the manga showed was correct. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
BadNewsBlues
Posts: 6069 |
|
|||||||
Vegetto was moping the floor with Buu, so it's incredibly likely he could've outright killed Buu, doing so would've killed Gohan, Piccolo, & Gotenks in the process which was the whole reason he let himself get absorbed in the first place......and was ultimately rendered moot by Buu destroying the earth and killing those four anyway, but still. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
Valhern
Posts: 916 |
|
|||||||
I meant Kid Buu, not Super Buu, but at worst they would've been in equal footing like with Zamasu now. But in any case, that last part is basically what happens every time in the Buu arc: nothing works, every transformation, fusion and power-up is basically fodder for making Buu transform...except Hercule/Satan, his part was the best, and Majin Vegeta's role was great because the character moment was great too. That was my biggest takeaway in enjoyment from the arc, despite having some cool ideas such as Vegetto, it always goes back eventually to just use whatever worked before and rendering most efforts and time useless. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
BadNewsBlues
Posts: 6069 |
|
|||||||
Toriyama is capricious like that. That's how you get Goku learning the Genki Dama as his ultimate attack during the saiyan arc but then have Vegeta get beaten by having an enlarged Gohan fall on him. And then there's of course what went down with Goku & Frieza in the Namek arc etc. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
Marimo0
Posts: 186 |
|
|||||||
Unless you have an actual source on that Sam, I think your assuming wrong. The point of how the Cell saga ended was for Gohan to inherit the hero position from his dad (before he took it back in the Buu arc). That was why he was the one who ended it and not Trunks, not because Toriyama thought it would've been too neat and tidy to have Trunks do it (though the very end was him taking out the androids and Cell of the future timeline) unless you have some interview where Toriyama said he decided against having Trunks be the one to save the day. And it's fitting that Trunks would beat Zamasu. His character arc for the story was laid out earlier with Vegeta telling him that he needed to be able to take care of things in his own timeline, and how Zamasu blamed Trunks for the sin of messing with time for why this tragedy was happening to his time. So Trunks needed to make up for his mistakes while doing something to assure that he can handle protecting earth on his own without needing to rely on the prime timeline in the future. While Vegeta and Goku still helped, Trunks got to be the hero in the end. Heck, it's even titled the "Future" Trunks saga.
Except Zamasu fused the same way Vegito did. And Black and Zamasu were roughly on the same level as Vegeta and Goku, with some fluctuations like Black sometimes getting a power boost and Zamasu being weaker but making up for it with his immortality. So it makes sense that a potara fusion of Black and Zamasu would be around the same level as a potara fusion of Goku and Vegeta, if maybe a bit weaker but making up for it with his partial immortality. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
TranceLimit174
 Posts: 959 |
|
|||||||
|
To those who complain about the series lacking states, I believe you all fail to understand that Dragon Ball Super’s very existence is a joke. It purposefully parodies itself. Toriyama himself said that he took the characters as far as he could at the end of Z, but constant fan demand and the horrid Dragon Ball Evolution film compelled him to come back. As a result, he very intentionally has made all of the power-scaling that much more absurd (SSR Scythe anyone?). When you’re at a god level where un-calibrated punches and random sneezes are enough to obliterate planets, most threats are actually pretty trivial. Like the gods of classic myth, their concerns become downright childish. The central conceit of the show is that at the end of the day, Goku and Vegeta can’t really be challenged like they used to because they are on a completely different tier.
This is what made Resurrection F brilliant. Not one Dragon Ball fan thought for a moment that Frieza was going to be able to just come back and mop the floor with Goku and Vegeta, and with this being baked into the plot it made for a much more interesting and humorous film as opposed to having to take Frieza seriously. The joy of competition and “who’s gonna win the bet?” were plenty “stakes” enough for people to by and large be entertained and invested. As for this Future Trunks arc? He’s the one with all the stakes. Goku and Vegeta were always gonna be fine, but the arc was always about Trunks and his plight against Goku Black / Zamasu. Personally, I was very happy to have our Saiyan pair play the role of assists in this arc. I am also positively baffled by all the Vegito complaints. Sure he had only 7 minutes of screen time, but my God WHAT A 7 MINUTES! I’ll take that sweet sakuga over 5 episodes of off-model stills any day. He was cocky, funny, and completely curb-stomped Zamasu. His power up to SSB was the ultimate “LET’S ******* GOOO!!!” moment, we got to see his signature technique used in a cool way, and Final Kamehameha made a gorgeous anime debut. Seriously, what else did you people want? If people wanted 3+ episodes of Vegito then they should have thought twice before spending years complaining about “Drag On Ball Z.” I understand people complaining about the Potara retcon, especially because the time limit makes it to similar to the Fusion Dance/Gogeta. That being said, I thought it was awesome that Vegito Blue is so powerful that not even the Potara’s magic can hold him together for the full time limit. And if anyone thought Vegito was gonna be running around for a series of episodes or even an arc you were kidding yourselves. In the long run it wouldn’t work for a whole host of reasons and if you think there’s a “lack of stakes” now it’d be only worse with Vegito being a constant presence. In regards to Trunks, both his power-up and final attack on Zamasu were far from ass-pulls and work very well within the rules of Dragon Ball. Just as Goku did in Battle of Gods, Trunks was able to absorb a good portion of the god ki pouring out of Goku and Vegeta. People keep asking “What is this form?! Why doesn’t it have a name/explanation?!” It’s not a new form. Trunks is using the ki around him for a power boost. And unlike what some seem to believe, it just got him up to a level where he could compete. He wasn’t suddenly equal to Goku and Vegeta. Also, people seem to misunderstand how the Spirit Bomb works. Everyone left was focusing their will into a single cause, that being Trunks’ finally putting an end to Zamasu, which is EXACTLY how it works. Like a vote, Goku always had to make “the ask” because not every living thing was so invested in or even immediately aware of his battle. With this in mind, it’s actually not a major leap in logic at all that a subconscious Spirit Bomb was formed or that Trunks could channel that into his sword. I don’t recall complaints when Piccolo used his ki to give Gohan new clothes and it was no thing. Only thing I was hoping for was a Spirit Bomb Burning Slash, but I respect the symbolism of the final blow. Dragon Ball Super is actually a lot smarter than people give it credit for. It’s only improved with each successive arc and while I can respect some people not getting what they wanted out of the climax, I don’t think anyone can deny that this arc gave fans an enthralling ride week after week resulting in a series best. As for me, I’m thankful not just for living in a day and age where we get NEW Dragon Ball every week, but that it is as good as it is. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group