Forum - View topicPoll: Subtitle Technology
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Tempest
 I Run this place.ANN Publisher  Posts: 10441 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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I'm sorry if it appears "loaded" to you, but the intent of the poll was to differentiate three different style of subtitling. 1)Simple 1 or 2 color subtitles with unchanging colors, fonts and sizes. These are found on DVDs, HD-DVDs and many fansubs. 2)Slightly more advanced subtitles that use minimalistic effects in order to make certain things more clear. Such different colors for different speakers, different colors depending on the background, etc... These are occasionally found on DVDs (what can be done is very limited), sometimes done by fansubbers, and a definite possibility on HD-DVD although they haven't been used very frequently yet). 3)Or subtitles that have kara-ok effects, change colors to match the color of the hair of the person who is speaking, use-non typical fonts (ie: comic fonts) change colors and/or sizes and/or fonts if the character is yelling or doing a special attack, change fonts, blink, flash, change shapes, etc.... These have only been used in fansubs. Now, those are the three choices, but I wanted to write a short sentence for each one, not a paragraph, so I summarised "kara-ok effects, change colors to match the color of the hair of the person who is speaking, use-non typical fonts (ie: comic fonts) change colors and/or sizes and/or fonts if the character is yelling or doing a special attack, change fonts, blink, flash, change shapes, etc...." as "gimmicky." This was done entirely for the purpose of simplifying the English, not to be biased. Furthermore, I feel that "gimmick" is an appropriate word here. Adding these effects to the subtitles may improve a viewer's enjoyment of the subtitles, but it won't improve the viewer's comprehension of the subtitles. They don't serve any utilitarian purpose... they're gimmicks... Some people like gimmicks, some people don't... Personally, I actually like a few of the gimmicky effects used by some fansubers. This most definitely wasn't a "What do you prefer, commercial (DVD) subtitles or fansub subtitles?" question, because many fansubbers don't use any gimmicks in their subtitles. Furthermore, the "in-between" option, which is way ahead in the polling, is something we see a lot on fansubs. Fansubbers that are using effects to make their subtitles easier to understand are way ahead of the DVD industry. Any vote for that category is a vote in favor of those fansubbers. So if the "gimmicky" option comes last, and the "advanced" option comes first, all it shows is that some fansubbers are doing things right, and others aren't. Don't turn this into another "us against fansubs" debate when it isn't. -t Last edited by Tempest on Sun Jan 21, 2007 3:15 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Tempest
I Run this place. ANN Publisher Posts: 10441 Location: Do not message me for support. |
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Actually, 2 spaces after a period was the way to type properly until the late 20th Century. Some schools still teach it, and many mainstream magazines and newspapers still put two spaces after periods, although for the majority it has fallen into disuse. The Internet is largely responsible for the death of the 2-spaces rule and the indentation of new paragraphs. For some reason, when html was first created, it was decided that multiple spaces would be turned into one and no simple tag for an indentation was created. Most people were either too lazy, or didn't know that the non-breaking-space tag could be used to make tabs & multi-spaces (but even non-breaking spaces were collapsed into one space in some browsers). -t Last edited by Tempest on Sun Jan 21, 2007 8:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Zalis116
Moderator
 Posts: 6883 Location: Kazune City |
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Well, since "gimmicky" was in "quotes" in the question, I can come to terms with its use. |
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doc-watson42
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 1709 |
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(Caveat: I have not seen this show.) While I find your second example (the SSA Softsubs) seems to convey the apparent context of the illustrated cut better, the split subtitles would potentially make for difficult reading, depending up their timing, both in relative starting display and in length. Also, while I am not satisfied with the first example's (the DVD subtitles) aliased (jagged) typeface, the colors are brighter, and to me, easier to read. (Yes, that is a lot of qualifications. ^_^; ) |
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Raja
 Posts: 68 Location: Tottori |
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hikaru004
 Posts: 2306 |
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Maybe it's a series thing because I watch certain titles also in "raw" form and there's no Japanese lyrics displayed in those. |
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chicogrande
 Posts: 190 Location: Huntsville, Alabama |
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I've seen some of these "gimmicky" subs and, I have to admit, I think they would be fun when used in fun, comedy animes. They would not work for dramatic or serious titles. Dramatic work should keep the standard subs. For example, Dokkoida would be a show ripe for fun subtitles. On the other hand, Ghost in the Shell SAC would not.
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Sven Viking
Posts: 1039 |
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Chicogrande is correct, and most quality fansub groups take this into account. Generally what I want is for the subtitles to fit, rather than clash, with the on-screen images so that I can more easily forget that they're there and concentrate on the visuals and story. In other words, subs that aren't distracting. I personally find standard DVD subtitles far more difficult to ignore than those in most high-quality fansub releases (excluding karaoke). Obviously it depends on the group and the series.
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bluepita
 Posts: 465 |
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I voted for the plain jane subs used on most DVDs. I don't like any fancier for the most part. I don't want different colors for my font, unless it's an extreme circumstance (lines and lines of overlapping text that cannot easily be told apart.) I've rarely found that. For the most part, it is very easy to tell who is speaking which line. And as for having them coded to hair color, that's a bit ridiculous, like subtitling-by-numbers. Oddly enough, I feel if there is a cutesy factor, it should be provided by the anime. I don't want my font size or type changing at any point in time. It's a distraction, and if the anime doesn't create that same impression on its own, it has failed.
In addition, I like the fact that it is often yellow with a dark outline. It's not a "pretty" color, but the reason they use this color is for your eyes. It's considered to be easier on the eyes, less straining. When I have to watch white (god forbid) subs, I usually end up with a headache. On a DVD, white subs will force me to watch the dub regardless. I guess I just feel the anime should stand alone so any tricks to enhance it are an insult. I want to sit down and enjoy the anime itself, to have the subtitles be seen as little as possible. I tend to read them quickly and spend most of my time looking as the pictures. Anything other than subtle subs take away from that. |
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Sven Viking
Posts: 1039 |
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Hmm, the weird thing is, bluepita and I ultimately want the same thing (non-distracting subtitles that aren't an eyesore, so we can concentrate on enjoying the anime itself) -- but the things that provide this for each of us are opposites. Well, opposites isn't the best word, but you see what I mean.
The comment on white subtitles makes me think that maybe it's even something more than personal preference, like a physiological difference? I prefer white subtitles (with dark outlines) to yellow, and they've never given me a headache. Whatever the case, the obvious solution would seem to be to include 'basic' and 'fancy' subtitles on separate tracks -- hopefully pleasing everybody. |
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DKong
 Posts: 152 |
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I said I like the gimmicky ones. I like how Toriyama's world put L in a fancy font, and Ryuk's dialog in an odd font. It added style.
I also hate the piss yellow subs of certain official DVDs. |
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omar235
 Posts: 1572 Location: Florida, Jacksonvile |
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I haven't voted yet but I will go with the gimmicky subs but I am pretty indifferent, I wouldn't mind the gimmicky subs if they were used correctly and didn't make it difficult to read. Like the subs were on Death Note, they got me into the dark feel of the show.
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scottjam65
Posts: 20 Location: San Diego, CA |
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I have been watching fansubs since the VHS days, and I do prefer the fansub effects over the horrific green/yellow/blue subs you get in licensed anime. I feel it shows little to no respect for the artistic value of the shows. In particular, I like the opening fansubs for Jigoku Shoujo and the fansubbing of Mai-Hime. The contrast is especially apparent when you look at the fansub and the licensed verison of Shakugan No Shana. I would like it if the licensing companies realized that we watch fansubs because we want a product as close to the original as possible, without having it marred by grotesque, garishly colored words at the bottom that obscure up to 1/8th the screen. True, I have not seen the HD-DVD or Blu-Ray subs yet, but I think this is definitely an area in which there is room for improvement.
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Raja
Posts: 68 Location: Tottori |
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Oh, and the default color for DVD subs in Japan is white... |
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Mylene
 Posts: 2792 Location: Indiana |
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Very well put, bluepita. I think that's in part a lot of reason I have issues with some fansubs. Of course, I have issues with some DVD subs as well (I can't recall which series it was [and I guess it could have been a French movie], but it had tiny subtitles, and the ones for Voices of a Distant Star were hard to keep up with, but for good reason I suppose...) I don't need gimmicks, because I'm interested in the show itself. Plus, I have a moderate knowledge of the language (4 years of university, but I have little to no opportunity to use what I've learned, so it's fading) so often times I only need a few quick glimpses to make sure I was correct, and would prefer the subtitles be subtle.
Actually, when I watch a fansub, it's because it's unavailable commercially in my country and usually is likely never to see the light of day. Don't use "we", use "I". You can only speak for yourself. Moreover, I've seen just as many fansubs cover the screen with garishly colored words as DVD subs. I really dislike having the culture points flashed at the top of the screen, particularly when I have to stop and go back just to see what it said because they didn't put it up long enough. I like booklets or DVD extras that include such information. I'd rather see the actual image of the show than that much text. But in the end, as others have said, it's all just personal preference. Kind of like some people like loud colored clothing, while others like more subtle colors. |
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