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REVIEW: Shuffle! DVD 2


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shadow_Hiei



Joined: 11 Jun 2006
Posts: 68
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 8:42 pm Reply with quote
Shuffle has a couple of funny parts (Primula brandishing the knife), but overall, yeah, its pretty much mediocre garbage until Kaede's arc. (episode 18-ish, IIRC)
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HellKorn



Joined: 03 Oct 2006
Posts: 1669
Location: Columbus, OH
PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2008 10:00 pm Reply with quote
Xanas, read these two posts, and consider for a moment that sub-only discs are only a detriment to those that wholesale reject the notion of enjoying anything that doesn't have their native language as an audio option.

Really, to tell people, "Hey, support fansubs and also buy the ridiculously priced R2 DVDs because that's more direct support, but screw the domestic licensees because I can't stand the idea of anime not having audio in my native language!" is inane.

I want to legally own anime, period. I want more anime titles that I want to be available, period. If some of those titles that I want can only be available through sub-only sets (for me, Mononoke, Kaiba, Moyashimon, etc.) then I'll gladly accept that fact.

One last thing: something I've found odd is that some of those boycotting or generally staying away from sub-only releases also watch fansubs. Obviously the lack of English audio isn't an obstacle for enjoyment. So why avoid sub-only releases, then?

... Anyway, as for Shuffle, you couldn't force me to watch it even if you paid me. Pandering comedy that makes a radical change into forced and overblown melodrama in its second half is one type of anime that I try to stay away from.
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 3:42 am Reply with quote
HellKorn wrote:
One last thing: something I've found odd is that some of those boycotting or generally staying away from sub-only releases also watch fansubs. Obviously the lack of English audio isn't an obstacle for enjoyment. So why avoid sub-only releases, then?
In those cases, that is just them using an easy reason for not buying anything. And I doubt that Geneon bailed just because they dubbed everything, considering that they continued the cost of finishing the remaining series they started to dub for continuity sake, which means a lot to me. I don't suppose getting many "decent" titles, and poor marketing decisions for the few that they did have had any affect there, did they? Let me make it clear I'm not againt a company trying to beat the rouge wave of fansubs by trying to ride that wave ahead of the crest with an early sub only release. But to then not invest in a hybrid afterwords is short sighted and could be just has detrimental to long term success. Personnally I think Dentsu pulling out of the US was just them having a childish strop and taking their toys out of the sand box because nobody wanted to play their way, instead of restructuring and getting the business back on track.
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Xanas



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 2058
PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 6:45 am Reply with quote
HellKorn wrote:
Xanas, read these two posts, and consider for a moment that sub-only discs are only a detriment to those that wholesale reject the notion of enjoying anything that doesn't have their native language as an audio option.

Really, to tell people, "Hey, support fansubs and also buy the ridiculously priced R2 DVDs because that's more direct support, but screw the domestic licensees because I can't stand the idea of anime not having audio in my native language!" is inane.


This is your opinion, it is not mine. I'm well aware of the reasons they are doing it, but it doesn't provide significant value for me.

The R1 companies aren't providing much value if they a releasing sub-only anime. That's my opinion. If you think it's "inane" you are welcome to it, but I think it's reasonable to expect a dub on an R1 release if I am going to purchase it. I will not support sub-only R1 releases, and that's all there is to it. I'm not "screwing" domestic licensees, anymore than I'm "screwing" any vendor I don't buy from for not providing what I want. Expecting me to spend money on someone who releases something that's less than my expectations is silly.
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HellKorn



Joined: 03 Oct 2006
Posts: 1669
Location: Columbus, OH
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 5:49 pm Reply with quote
Xanas wrote:
The R1 companies aren't providing much value if they a releasing sub-only anime. That's my opinion. If you think it's "inane" you are welcome to it, but I think it's reasonable to expect a dub on an R1 release if I am going to purchase it.


That's not what I typed. I don't care if you're buying sub-only releases or not (that is, assuming that you haven't watched the series fansubbed prior to that). That's not what I have an issue with.

What I do take issue with is you pushing your view to try to make it as though buying the high-priced R2 DVDs that have -- excepting a few movies -- don't have any subtitles and using fansubs as a means to "cover" the English recquirement. That's beyond selfish, and it is inane to think that people would forego the domestic, cheaper option. Hell, I've used the process that you've mentioned BUT ONLY for anime titles that are extremely unlikely to be unlicensed.

@Mohawk52: Not supporting the creators may be one reason, but a sense of entitlement may be a larger factor.

The deal with Geneon is sketchy, anyhow, but I'd suspecting commissioning dubs for a lot of their moe and other niche shows didn't help them. (I can only imagine how much they lost on Fighting Spirit. The first volume apparently only sold HALF of what it needed to break even, and sales just got worse throughout the rest of the 16 releases.)

I can't see how it's good economic sense to give a title a second release with an English dub. (Gurren Lagann is an oddity and likely to be the lone exception for a long time.) Those that don't have any problems with sub-only releases will have bought the first round of DVDs, and if there aren't many buyers left that would buy the series then there's little point in creating a dub after the fact.

Licensing and putting out sure-fire hits (for Geneon, Hellsing Ultimate, Black Lagoon, etc.) would certainly be enough to carry the company as long as you don't spread yourself too thin (i.e. giving the same treatment to niche titles as the aforementioned series).
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Xanas



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
Posts: 2058
PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 6:56 pm Reply with quote
What are you talking about this "pushing my view" thing? I said that it doesn't provide significant value "to me." So I don't know where you are getting that I'm telling other people not to buy anything. I said I didn't agree with it, and I wouldn't buy it. I didn't say you shouldn't/can't/or anything like that...

To quote myself...

Quote:

I am not saying everyone has to agree with me, but from where I sit sub-only R1 releases provide very little value "to me."


Now in my original post I didn't say anything but I am only stating my own opinion, and in my opinion it's not something I want so I don't want to support it. I don't believe I ever called for anyone else to purchase or not purchase sub-only releases.
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 5:34 pm Reply with quote
HellKorn wrote:
I can't see how it's good economic sense to give a title a second release with an English dub. (Gurren Lagann is an oddity and likely to be the lone exception for a long time.) Those that don't have any problems with sub-only releases will have bought the first round of DVDs, and if there aren't many buyers left that would buy the series then there's little point in creating a dub after the fact.

Licensing and putting out sure-fire hits (for Geneon, Hellsing Ultimate, Black Lagoon, etc.) would certainly be enough to carry the company as long as you don't spread yourself too thin (i.e. giving the same treatment to niche titles as the aforementioned series).
IF is only two letters, but such a BIG word. Good job they didn't feel that way about Haibane Renmei, or Le Portait De Petit Cossette, else they would have been deemed too niche for a dub and people like me would be left out and the box set and DVD would not be on my shelf.
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ManSlayer07



Joined: 09 Apr 2006
Posts: 214
PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 10:34 pm Reply with quote
Mohawk52 wrote:
HellKorn wrote:
I can't see how it's good economic sense to give a title a second release with an English dub. (Gurren Lagann is an oddity and likely to be the lone exception for a long time.) Those that don't have any problems with sub-only releases will have bought the first round of DVDs, and if there aren't many buyers left that would buy the series then there's little point in creating a dub after the fact.

Licensing and putting out sure-fire hits (for Geneon, Hellsing Ultimate, Black Lagoon, etc.) would certainly be enough to carry the company as long as you don't spread yourself too thin (i.e. giving the same treatment to niche titles as the aforementioned series).
IF is only two letters, but such a BIG word. Good job they didn't feel that way about Haibane Renmei, or Le Portait De Petit Cossette, else they would have been deemed too niche for a dub and people like me would be left out and the box set and DVD would not be on my shelf.


Why hadn't I thought of that? Comparing a 2003 TV series release with a 2005 OVA series release with a 2008 TV series, pure brilliance. The American economy and R1 licensing/release trends are exactly same too, how did I miss that? Rolling Eyes Your "entitlement" as HellKorn puts it continues to produce some very interesting posts...
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Keonyn
Subscriber



Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 5567
Location: Coon Rapids, MN
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 12:14 am Reply with quote
Dear god, if people want dubs then so be it, why should that matter to you? It's amazing how little some people know about the economy apparently. Dubs increase sales by opening a product to a larger market, this allows them to actually lower the cost of the release as more sales means they can make a profit from the licensing fees with less markup per disc. Dear god, this is like 8th grade economics. Even niche titles can benefit as it may be the only way they will sell enough copies to recover from the expense. The majority of what you're paying for is the license, not the dub.

Now here's the bottom line. This is a review of a DVD, not a discussion of dubs and subs and whether some people deserve a dub or whether some people are under the impression they are entitled to demand the industry cater only to them and leave the rest behind. It's frankly irrelevant and it's done as of now.
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