Forum - View topicNEWS: I'm in Love with the Villainess Yuri Isekai Novels Get TV Anime in 2023
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Ruhrpottpatriot
Posts: 65 |
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People who complain about "politics" being present in art are just salty that said art is not following their political views; just ignore those people, they are like internet trolls -- better not feed them.
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Wyvern
 Posts: 1571 |
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First off, all creative work is political, no exceptions. Just because you don't notice it doesn't mean it ain't there. Even if you choose not to "inject politics" into something, that in itself is a political choice. Second, in this particular case, the mere act of making a show with a lesbian main character is unabashedly political. Having her take a well-known isekai setup and turn it gay? Even more political. This show is political as hell. Every anime you've ever seen is political, too. Gurren Lagann, the show you take your avatar from? spoiler[A show about the struggle between security (represented by the Anti-Spirals) and personal liberty (represented by Team Dai-Gurren?)] Yeah, that's political. And political isn't bad! It just means you made something with a point of view. |
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randalthor
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For Gurren Lagan, I would say that's more philosophy than politics. But I may be splitting hairs. So touche. I would disagree that politics is everywhere. Most slice of life anime have zero politics. I don't mind politics in anime, if it's done organicly with the story. I object when it's done in a sloppy and forced way. Why does the presence of a gay character have to make it political? The author could make gayness a complete non issue in their world. And this sidestep the issue entirely. Although, I'm sure you would then argue that it being a non issue is itself a political statement. Maybe you're right. If we look deeply enough, there is politics everywhere. But I would argue that some politics are at a surface level. And others are much more subtle. Sometimes people want heavy subject matter in their entertainment. Other times, they want lighter fare. Although, it's really a moot point. Since others have pointed out they discuss politics in the light novel anyway. I was unaware that GL and BL manga regularly discuss politics. I guess politics, at the surface level, is not something I see often in most other genres of anime.
My problem with politics in entertainment, isn't that it's from an opposing viewpoint. It's that it's usually sloppily done. The goal of presenting a political point of view, should be to try and win people over. To get them to think I'm new ways. Or to encourage a political debate or conversation. In many Hollywood shows and movies, this is not the goal. The goal is to instead condemn any of the viewers that hold a different viewpoint. This won't help to win anyone over. Nor does it encourage a healthy debate. It s counterproductive. And it detracts from the narrative. Let's contrast that with the way anime does it. Look at Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind. Or Princess Mononoke. Both contain strong environmental messages. But they are presented organically and in since with the plot and characters. Even if I don't agree with all of their messages, neither anime insults me. Instead, they plant seeds of new ideas and ways of looking at things. You'll catch more flies with honey, than vinegar. It's easy to write people off as trolls. Once you apply the label, you can just ignore everything they say. It takes effort to actually have a conversation with someone you disagree with. |
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Florete
Posts: 365 |
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I'm not sure if you completely missed the point of my post or if you're just simply unaware that I'm in Love with the Villainess is chock full of what people call "politics," way more than your average American series. Probably both. And yeah, everything is political. If you think something isn't political, it's just reinforcing what you already see as the status quo. |
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randalthor
Posts: 12 |
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I'm unfamiliar with the source material. And from what you and others have said, it is indeed chock full of politics. I stand corrected. I really like the concept of this anime, and I enjoyed the trailer for it. I'll give it a try when it comes out. Maybe it'll Dona good job of incorporating it's political message with it's story and characters. |
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tsukumiyomi
Posts: 22 |
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It needs to end where the current manga chapter ended for it to be a satisfactory ending and it's impossible it'll get there in one cour.
Maybe the animation is bad because they already have planned 2 cours but only the budget for one? |
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a_Bear_in_Bearcave
Posts: 520 Location: Poland |
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I don't remember it being it's chock full of politics, it does have few scenes where MC clearly notes or compares some aspect of being LGBT in Japan, and I found her musings interesting, but it's not much different from someone noticing class and wealth differences exist in negative way in the world they were isekaied to. It's like those Japanese series about police, Police in a Pod, which were branded by some on the USA left as some kind of police propaganda. I don't think being political is necessarily bad, in fact there are many respected anime that get really political, I don't think you can say "Legend of Galactic Heroes" isn't political for one example, but USA productions does have a tendency to be political in shallow and preachy way, compared to ambitious anime (I'm ignoring isekai genre here for obvious reasons). Compare original Cowboy Bebop to Netflix LA adaptation - original CB did have plenty of subtle political implications, both regarding class and gender, but the way LA tried to change it was mostly tone-deaf and forced. And when anime gets unsubtly political, like, say, Utena and gender, it usually does so with badass theme music while walking a stairway to heaven to have crazy chest-pulled-sword duels with misogynists. Last edited by a_Bear_in_Bearcave on Tue Dec 13, 2022 8:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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harminia
 Posts: 2015 Location: australia |
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Doesn't matter if it's a non issue in the fictional world, it's an issue in THIS world, as evidenced by comments in this thread. It's impossible to just have a gay character be a non issue because there will always be people chucking fits over it. This stuff is inherently political, unfortunately and it's outside of the authors control.
This made me chuckle. ___ I was interested in this series but I heard some people say it was homophobic, thought it may have been how the discussion on gay identity was interpreted by them? I'm not sure but it made me wary... But if people are saying it's statements made in good faith, if perhaps worded a little clumsily, I may give it a shot. |
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Cardcaptor Takato
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Shay Guy
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You know, I've seen the "I don't object to queerness in fiction, I just hate the way AMERICA does it; Japan does it right" bit before. I never have any clear idea what they're criticizing in American works. There never seems to actually be a coherent argument built out of examples.
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Nev999
Posts: 138 |
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The author's a queer woman for the record, which doesn't mean it's impossible for her to write poorly of course, but I do believe her musings are in good faith and likely based on her own experience. It's kind of cool to get her perspective in between all the silly fantasy hi jinks because anime fandom likes to act like that perspective doesn't exist, which I believe is what the earlier comments were trying to get at before people who hadn't even read the series derailed everything. I thought it was pretty interesting. She also mentions in the afterwords how she wants there to be more yuri stories where they get to have fantasy adventures and engage in epic battles, which was one of her reasons for writing this series. It's definitely not a series for everyone, there are parts of it that made me roll my eyes spoiler[(the fixation on incest for example, though at least it's pretty minor background and removed from the main relationship)] but I found it a fun time overall after rolling with its silliness. You should definitely see what your own opinion is! Last edited by Nev999 on Tue Dec 13, 2022 11:36 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Cardcaptor Takato
Posts: 4947 |
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It's always interesting to me how anime fans who get mad at people suggesting all art is political then turn around and argue the mere existence of LGBTQIA+ people is political. This is also downplaying the struggles that queer people have faced in just being visible in American works while ignoring the corporate politics and censorship that still goes on today. It also strikes me as a weird orientalism and infantilizing of Japanese people to stereotype them that works made by white people with queer characters in them is inherently political but any works made by Asian people with queer characters are not political. I can't imagine what the real difference is here in how anime weebs are treating queer Asian works.
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Villain-chan
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Looking over this thread, just going to ask and unless u have read the source material don't answer please, thanks. Is this anime homophobic/transphobic? Plenty have made claims in here and the answer isn't clear.
Still, besides these two examples, I found nothing wrong with what I saw animation wise both moving and drawn and so on... so am just sitting here, like i always do every single time people on this site or else where have the gall to say the animation is bad "Did we even see the same thing? Tell me, where is the BAD animation folks? I ain't seeing it. It's at this point, esp with how this thread DERAILED massively that i have come to the conclusion that, fans don't know what they're talking about when it comes to art (Most anyway, not all), not every anime is going to have MOVIE LVS of animation and just becus an anime doesn't have movie lvs of animation, does NOT MEAN the art is BAD or TRASH and so on. If anyone wants to point out whats wrong with the art/animation that makes it bad, be my guest but I find it very telling that only 1 person even pointed out whats wrong with the animation, which wasn't even the art style I'll add. Also, not to be rude here but, there seems to be a trend of just calling art that isn't movie lvs or is just alright as bad or trash when it isn't. Continuing to call that bad and trash isn't ok becus u'r basically calling the hard working artists' art bad and trash when it isn't. Further more if u've ever tried to draw, u know how HARD it is to draw good art, most likely can't even draw as good as what we saw here... just saying, please remember there are both artists AND fans who hear and see someone spewing lies about the art and animation being bad when it isn't and that may not only hurt them, but turn them away from the series too which in turn hurts both the artists, creator and all involved as well the fans of the series too. Last edited by Villain-chan on Wed Dec 14, 2022 8:15 am; edited 1 time in total |
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killjoy_the
 Posts: 2463 |
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spoiler[Not at all (this is however coming from a straight person's POV). The character recognizes why she acts the way she does (stereotypically and often in a comedic fashion) and is pensive about it as it's been ingrained in her to be the only way to act gay that is acceptable. The society they live in is homophobic, but the characters take steps to change that as much as they can. I'd say very often the treatment of the trans characters is too simplistic because of the world's setting, but the flashbacks to Ray's previous life exploring that are thoughtful and treat it with extreme respect] |
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kotomikun
Posts: 1205 |
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Wow, how did a thread about a mediocre-looking adaptation of a novel series that's a niche within a niche within a niche get this long already? Could it be... another vicious political argument between two sides that don't understand each other in the slightest, only tangentially related to the intended subject of the thread? It certainly could!
The overarching question here is how we've ended up in a situation where both the left and the right think media is biased towards the other group. It could be just a perspective thing, since that example is seen by one side as wimpy minimalized representation, and by the other as sneaky indoctrination of children or whatever. But this also sorta feeds back on itself, since art is made by people within our polarized culture, and it's getting increasingly difficult to make anything "centrist" that doesn't offend either side. So any gay stuff that does get produced in that environment does have a good chance of being "preachy," since only people quite far to the left are bold enough to make it in spite of backlash, and Americans just like in-your-face messages in general. Counterpart hyper-conservative media surely exists, though I can't say I pay much attention to it. Despite how it might seem these days, Japan is much more conservative than the US. Gay marriage, last time I checked, is still illegal over there. Anime can give a different impression because it's a counterculture. (One which goes in quite a few mutually-contradictory directions... but still.) Yuri and yaoi may have a different feel than the Western equivalents because what Japan considers left is more towards the center for us, and because their don't-rock-the-boat mentality means that those media are more likely to just create a fantasy world where same-sex relationships are acceptable, rather than making overt statements about how our world needs to change or packing in other left-leaning messages along with it. Though there are certainly exceptions ("Sexiled," for example). |
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