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NEWS: Lawsuit Filed Against Pokémon Go Developers


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FtKaru



Joined: 05 Jan 2016
Posts: 70
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 9:54 pm Reply with quote
Katamori wrote:
It's funny since most of the locations are based off Ingress portals which were placed for the most part by players.It was basically the same game as pokemon go and has been around since 2012 but you didn't see people complaining then.Btw they are working on making it so people can opt out afaik.

People probably didn't complain back then because not only did they not know what it was, but it's practically irrelevant in comparison. Pokemon GO has had a much larger reach and playerbase in general.

You probably wouldn't think anything of a couple people walking around looking at their phones when Ingress was around, but now you can almost be sure that they're playing Pokemon GO, especially in certain areas.
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Redbeard 101
Oscar the Grouch
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Joined: 14 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 10:25 pm Reply with quote
mgosdin wrote:
An interesting thought, is it trespass if you place a virtual object on someone's property without their permission?

For the pokemon themselves they are not "set" at a specific location. Like say a pokestop or gym. They are fluid, they move around. You might catch a pokemon in spot X and then come back 5 more times and never see one again in that spot. So in that aspect even if we agree a virtual object placed there is trespassing there is no "set spot" for the virtual pokemon. Now the whole gym and pokestop part is a different matter. I would love to know HOW the game determines what is or is not a pokestop. Example: one funeral home near my house IS a pokestop. Another a few miles up the road is NOT. So why is one a pokestop but not the other? That would indicate it doesn't automatically go "this sort of business is a pokestop all the time" and place one there.

Another example: in one area near my house there is a small shopping area. It only has 2 pokestops. Yet at another small shopping area just 3 miles or so away it has 5 around it. So again, why does one only have 2 and the other 5?

I agree that certain types of businesses, such as hospitals, police stations, funeral homes, etc., should obviously not be a pokestop or gym. It's easy to say simply stop that but again without knowing HOW the app designates what will or will not be a pokestop/gym it might not be as easy to fix. Which there in lies a problem, among many others.

As far as this specific case goes I think the guy is not going to win. As has been mentioned asking for permission is the opposite of trespassing. Assuming the kids didn't simply go into his yard anyways of course. The larger issue of privacy though and not being bothered will be the more difficult issue to muddle through. I mean if they say poke players asking for permission to go into the yard is an invasion of privacy does that mean I'm going to stop seeing Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses coming by? What about door to door salesman? I trust you get my point. If they say what the players are doing is an invasion of privacy what else will such a ruling impact?
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Katamori



Joined: 03 Aug 2016
Posts: 33
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 10:35 pm Reply with quote
Like I said people.Most if not all the gyms/pokestops are in the set locations not because the devs put them there but because PLAYERS put them there in the Ingress app.Pokemon go uses Ingress's locations.That's why you get odd things like a half dozen pokestops being in the same spot.
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AnimeLordLuis



Joined: 27 Jan 2015
Posts: 1626
Location: The Borderlands of Pandora
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 12:50 am Reply with quote
Lucky basterd I wish that I had a poké stop or better yet a gym at my house and since I basically live in the middle of nowhere I probably wouldn't get many trespassers anyway. Smile
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mdreura



Joined: 04 Nov 2010
Posts: 106
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 1:06 am Reply with quote
CandisWhite wrote:
This is a public activity which has impeded on a man's private property, a fact even more egregious because it is his home, his personal space.

He should not have to opt out of this: Nothing should have been put there in the first place! It is not the job of private people to police a public activity which they have no involvement with.

If I created a treasure hunt, to promote a business, and listed places that were neither public nor easily accessible on the map, I would deserve every lawsuit that came my way.


And if a couple of neighbor kids popped a baseball in your backyard? You sound like a fun person to live nextdoor to. Rolling Eyes
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Katamori



Joined: 03 Aug 2016
Posts: 33
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 1:15 am Reply with quote
Just think what the local kids would do if this somehow messes up the game for them.The odd person asking to enter his yard probably won't look so bad.
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cloud8100



Joined: 30 May 2010
Posts: 550
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 1:54 am Reply with quote
Joe Mello wrote:
As the game loads, it cautions you to be aware of your surroundings while playing. That alone should be enough of a defense to survive in court.

cloud8100 wrote:
That's why they should prohibit the private territory of others from having Pokemon in the first place.

Are you volunteering yourself to go throw the zoning records for every town and city in the world to determine where public property starts and stops? What about the private properties that embrace being featured in the game? If they want to put in an opt-out system, that's fine, but there's no way what you are suggesting is plausible.


Ya, doesn't make it any better. Even if they can't do that they should have thought about the consequences. They should have at least made an opt out system before the game was even released. If other people wanna stay in the game that's good for them.
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TrueZangetsu



Joined: 15 Apr 2016
Posts: 191
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 2:06 am Reply with quote
cloud8100 wrote:
Joe Mello wrote:
As the game loads, it cautions you to be aware of your surroundings while playing. That alone should be enough of a defense to survive in court.

cloud8100 wrote:
That's why they should prohibit the private territory of others from having Pokemon in the first place.

Are you volunteering yourself to go throw the zoning records for every town and city in the world to determine where public property starts and stops? What about the private properties that embrace being featured in the game? If they want to put in an opt-out system, that's fine, but there's no way what you are suggesting is plausible.


Ya, doesn't make it any better. Even if they can't do that they should have thought about the consequences. They should have at least made an opt out system before the game was even released. If other people wanna stay in the game that's good for them.


That's ridiculous. That's like saying the developers of half life should consider that a child might get traumatized by their work and not out any scary looking stuff in their game.

That's like saying a knife company had to consider that someone might want to cut his wrists and not make it sharp therfore.


Pokémon aren't set in special locations. They move around like animals, or a leaf in the wind. But I guess God needs to consider that the laws of physics could endanger someone's private property If let's say kids accidently drop a baseball in a guys garden and ask for permission to get it.
Totally unacceptable right.
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cloud8100



Joined: 30 May 2010
Posts: 550
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 2:24 am Reply with quote
TrueZangetsu wrote:


That's ridiculous. That's like saying the developers of half life should consider that a child might get traumatized by their work and not out any scary looking stuff in their game.

That's like saying a knife company had to consider that someone might want to cut his wrists and not make it sharp therfore.


Pokémon aren't set in special locations. They move around like animals, or a leaf in the wind. But I guess God needs to consider that the laws of physics could endanger someone's private property If let's say kids accidently drop a baseball in a guys garden and ask for permission to get it.
Totally unacceptable right.


Wouldn't say those situations are the same at all to be honest. The things you refer to don't encourage people to constantly bother people at work trying to get in their office, they don't bother people sitting at home. And kids always just pop in to the garden to get their toys with out asking where I am lol. That's a completely accidental situation. The comparisons you draw have no reflection on something that could have been made avoidable from the start. :-\. I have no problem with the game itself by the way. I just think people should be able to have a choice at the very least on if they want to remove themselves.
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TarsTarkas



Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 5887
Location: Virginia, United States
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:59 am Reply with quote
There is no way that the Pokemon Go developers could stop Pokemon from appearing on private property. The shear scale of what people are asking and expecting is impossible.

I don't know how Poke Stops work, so maybe that can be controlled, but Pokemon roaming the area cannot.

Hopefully, the case will be thrown out.
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Katamori



Joined: 03 Aug 2016
Posts: 33
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 10:39 am Reply with quote
People are also forgetting that there is apparently a 50-75 foot range at which you can catch pokemon.If that's true people don't even need to go into someone's yard to catch pokemon in it.
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ShaunHastings



Joined: 02 Nov 2013
Posts: 19
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 11:55 am Reply with quote
Katamori wrote:
People are also forgetting that there is apparently a 50-75 foot range at which you can catch pokemon.If that's true people don't even need to go into someone's yard to catch pokemon in it.


I was going to point this out as well, in which case I find his claims of people coming to his door to catch pokemon in his back garden a little hard to believe, unless he owns a huge patch of land.
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jsieczkar



Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 139
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 7:59 pm Reply with quote
The are creating an automated opt out system, so it is definitely possible. The fact that they didn't include one from the get go is rather puzzling. The fact that your property is opted in regardless of whether you are a player or not is going to make a big difference.

I'm guessing the people that are saying this is dumb are not property owners who have to pay for any damage to lawns, fences or possible lawsuits if someone gets injured. If someone drowns in my pool who hopped the fence will still cause months of paperwork nightmares for me.
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CandisWhite



Joined: 19 Apr 2015
Posts: 282
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 10:17 pm Reply with quote
mdreura wrote:
CandisWhite wrote:
This is a public activity which has impeded on a man's private property, a fact even more egregious because it is his home, his personal space.

He should not have to opt out of this: Nothing should have been put there in the first place! It is not the job of private people to police a public activity which they have no involvement with.

If I created a treasure hunt, to promote a business, and listed places that were neither public nor easily accessible on the map, I would deserve every lawsuit that came my way.

And if a couple of neighbor kids popped a baseball in your backyard? You sound like a fun person to live nextdoor to. Rolling Eyes

1) There is a difference between a business, which Niantec is, encouraging people to go to the private property of others, especially on the scale of Pokémon Go, to engage in the activity which the business provides and private people, especially kids, once in a while, losing a darn ball.

Kids play street hockey out front and I have a family with 3 kids next door, so yeah, I've had a lot of knocks on the door, "Can we please get X?" and they've gotten X: I would have a far different reaction to dozens of strangers, every day, tramping all over my lawn, going in my back yard, and knocking on the door at all hours.

2) There is, also, the flip side where people who are respectful of the privacy of others, will be cut out of the gameplay because they cannot access what is there.

I won't disagree that half the problems of the game stem from people without basic common sense or respect being set loose right alongside the regular people, and that that is not Niantec's fault, but not specifically designating stops to be only in public and appropriate areas is all on them.

You're rolling your eyes as if this is a joke; I don't think you understand just how serious this is; Niantec could be in a lot of trouble: They are not a private citizen who goofed up; They're a business who licensed a large and wildly popular brand, whose popularity is well-known even amongst people who don't buy it, for a product whose very raison d'être is to get people to move around to real world locations in large groups; They needed to design this game smartly, and to keep its maps tight and controlled, from the get-go.
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Posts: 7163
Location: Another Kingdom
PostPosted: Thu Aug 04, 2016 10:25 pm Reply with quote
Joe Mello wrote:
As the game loads, it cautions you to be aware of your surroundings while playing. That alone should be enough of a defense to survive in court.


Yeah, that's why you have those obvious statements on things you buy, such as the "contents are hot" warning on coffee cups: It's not to inform you that your coffee is hot, but as legal defense. (Though the Stella case was actually way more complicated than that, but having a "contents are hot" sign would have caused her to lose the case.)

DuchessBianca wrote:
Lawsuit is absolutely stupid but the real problem is the many, many people who seem to lack common sense or compassion. How pathetic and self absorbed do you really have to be to actually pester people in their homes to gain "access" to their properly so you can catch some worthless virtual pixels? Even worse the ones who don't ask permission and just trespass. Catch your virtual pixels in public places where you aren't disturbing people dealing with their REAL, private lives. The sooner this madness over this stupid fad dies the better.


People who are having too much fun can easily lose control of themselves. You can see that in riots after sports games (soccer seems to get this a lot), or after rock concerts, or during media conventions. Even without drugs (alcohol included), people can easily lose track of reality. Pokémon GO, I believe, is vulnerable to this because it is an augmented reality game and is meant to look like a blurring of reality and fantasy.

whiskeyii wrote:
It's also hard to tell how PG determines gyms and Pokestops. All the ones in my areas are actual pieces of decor (statues, fountains, that sort of thing) or public businesses. No Gym houses here!


Niantic has access to Google's monuments list. If there is something Google considers a monument, or at least reported to Google, then there will be either a PokéStop or a Gym there. I don't know how it distinguishes PokéStops from Gyms though. Most Gyms I see, however, are actual buildings or business locations, whereas PokéStops tend to be fountains, plaques, memorials, statues, etc. My guess is that monuments are always designated as PokéStops, and ALL monuments are unless put on a blacklist, whereas notable locations on Google Maps will have a chance of being a Gym. I have not found any sort of pattern about what could be Gyms though.

CandisWhite wrote:
This is a public activity which has impeded on a man's private property, a fact even more egregious because it is his home, his personal space.

He should not have to opt out of this: Nothing should have been put there in the first place! It is not the job of private people to police a public activity which they have no involvement with.

If I created a treasure hunt, to promote a business, and listed places that were neither public nor easily accessible on the map, I would deserve every lawsuit that came my way.

Niantic did not think this through; They needed to do what they are doing with McDonald's in Japan: They needed to have businesses on board with the project, use open public spaces, and have Pokémon stops be ONLY at those locations.


I can say that one of the rules of geocaching is that you are not allowed to place a geocache in a location without complete open access to everyone. For instance, you can stick one in the parking lot of a Wal-Mart, but you cannot put one in the Wal-Mart.

Having businesses on board and having PokéStops only there and in open areas will severely limit the scope of the game. Pokémon GO would not have been nearly as popular otherwise. To have this whitelist system, they would've had to spend a lot on advertising to business owners so that a good amount of them even knows this would exist, AND the game would've had to become viral within those limitations. But maybe it's me and being surrounded by businesses run by people who will not take in anything outside of their comfort zones.

Psycho 101 wrote:
I mean if they say poke players asking for permission to go into the yard is an invasion of privacy does that mean I'm going to stop seeing Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses coming by? What about door to door salesman? I trust you get my point. If they say what the players are doing is an invasion of privacy what else will such a ruling impact?


I kind of miss kids selling chocolate bar fundraisers. They're a lot more palatable than the magazine subscription fundraisers they're all doing nowadays. Even then, the few kids still selling chocolate bars, I could tell they're pretty restricted on where they could sell things. All of the ones I've seen in the past 6 or 7 years look like they're doing so in secret, in fear of getting in trouble for solicitation on someone else's space.

Katamori wrote:
Like I said people.Most if not all the gyms/pokestops are in the set locations not because the devs put them there but because PLAYERS put them there in the Ingress app.Pokemon go uses Ingress's locations.That's why you get odd things like a half dozen pokestops being in the same spot.


Does that mean that new locations will never become new PokéStops or Gyms?

ShaunHastings wrote:
I was going to point this out as well, in which case I find his claims of people coming to his door to catch pokemon in his back garden a little hard to believe, unless he owns a huge patch of land.


A lot of people don't know about the options for longer-range catching. They just pick up the game and learn as they go.

CandisWhite wrote:
Kids play street hockey out front and I have a family with 3 kids next door, so yeah, I've had a lot of knocks on the door, "Can we please get X?" and they've gotten X: I would have a far different reaction to dozens of strangers, every day, tramping all over my lawn, going in my back yard, and knocking on the door at all hours.


There is a house in my neighborhood with an oversized backyard, whose entire property points sideways meaning his backyard is directly adjacent to the street for about 20 meters or so. This means things thrown around the general area are more likely to land there than anyone else.

Of the 28 years I've lived in the neighborhood, not once has anybody succeeded in retrieving anything that's landed in there. The man who lives there has kept it all and does not respond to people knocking on the door or ringing. (You could even see him, through the wooden fence, pick up items that land in there and bringing them back into his house.)
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