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EP. REVIEW: Maria the Virgin Witch

However, I also don't see the feminist significance.

Lastly, I would ask if one still considered Maria's personal victory to be a feminist victory, would they still think that when this show's merchandise starts to come out featuring Maria on bodypillows and whatnot? (I think we all know that is coming.) Would such an act of "selling out" change one's perspective about the author's intent for her?

I wanted to see exactly what Bernard was planning. What was he writing about? What was his new plan?

@Random 21

There's no indication that God will extend that beyond Maria and in fact the indication is that the exact opposite is true, so again I can't really say that such a narrow form of protection only for Maria is "feminist" in any kind of larger sense. Perhaps you could say she is a very minor inspirational figure for achieving her own happiness, but the show makes clear that she is an exception so I don't think there is a broad message there that would make this show compelling in that feminist respect.

I am not an expert on feminism, but Gabriella's reviews and others have made a strong case over the course of these twelve weeks indicating that such an interpretation is absolutely valid. I believe several of your arguments have also been debated before, even in this review thread, and those replies still apply. I look forward to reading an articulation of them that fully addresses your points.

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Lastly, I would ask if one still considered Maria's personal victory to be a feminist victory, would they still think that when this show's merchandise starts to come out featuring Maria on bodypillows and whatnot? (I think we all know that is coming.) Would such an act of "selling out" change one's perspective about the author's intent for her?

That is quite the loaded question here. How about this: if that merchandise never materializes, or merely takes a different form from what you are presuming, will you come here and admit to automatically jumping the gun?

But more importantly, at least I do not believe that merchandising trumps content. Evangelion does not become meaningless just because Gainax has licensed all manner of shallow merchandise. You could probably look up pieces of Revolutionary Girl Utena merchandise that sexualizes Utena and Anthy, without such a fact intellectually contradicting or discrediting the actual show at all.

All this talk of "feminist this" and "feminist that" about the show is all well and good, but I personally think that it uses the term a little too broadly.

So, it's a feminist series because it portrays a strong woman in the face of adversity who defeats a male villain/adversary? If that is all that it takes to be a feminist series, then is there really much of a need for the term anymore? Really any series with a female lead would be considered a feminist series then. Cross Ange would count, as it has a strong female lead who defeats a male villain, and is subjugated by a harsh system which she overcomes.

I just described both series with one description, but judging by the reactions on this site, it appears most would disagree and say that Maria is a feminist (excuse the pun) godsend, while Ange is it's antithesis.

I guess my big question is what differentiates these type of shows and makes one more "feminist" than the other, aside from superficial differences?

So, it's a feminist series because it portrays a strong woman in the face of adversity who defeats a male villain/adversary? If that is all that it takes to be a feminist series, then is there really much of a need for the term anymore? Really any series with a female lead would be considered a feminist series then. Cross Ange would count, as it has a strong female lead who defeats a male villain, and is subjugated by a harsh system which she overcomes.

I guess my big question is what differentiates these type of shows and makes one more "feminist" than the other, aside from superficial differences?

"Selling out" for merchandise is not some huge sin that makes the show meaningless. That's not my point. My point is that selling out a specific character to an industry catering to male sexual fantasies would definitely contradict the idea of the author having feminist goals with such a character.

ChibiKangaroo wrote:

"Selling out" for merchandise is not some huge sin that makes the show meaningless. That's not my point. My point is that selling out a specific character to an industry catering to male sexual fantasies would definitely contradict the idea of the author having feminist goals with such a character.

"If there are hug pillows, that means the author didn't intend for the character to be seen as feminist". I understand your interpretation of the show is different from Gabriella's but this is pretty ridiculous "evidence". For the record, there already is a Maria dakimakura, but it's a doujin item. Unlicensed.

Maria isn't selling well in Japan at all, so there likely won't be very much merchandise to begin with, but if there are suddenly official hug pillows, it would make more sense to attribute it to low sales leading to the production committee approving anything they think might help recoup the production cost of the show rather than a declarative statement about the intent of the content from the creator.

If you disagree on the context and what the show was trying to do, and are looking for "evidence" that you're somehow objectively correct about this and Gabriella's reading of the show is wrong, the only thing that would support your argument to that end would be a direct quote from the mangaka. Not merchandise, not fan reaction, not the amount of doujin, just a quote.

But this isn't about being objectively right, it's just two different interpretations of a TV show. It's fun to debate them, but there is no one objectively right answer.

It's really great that you brought up the case of Cross Ange, because I have been thinking about comparisons between those two shows for a while, but I haven't been watching Cross Ange so I didn't feel qualified to talk about it. Specifically, I was wondering if Ange demonstrates more growth as a person in Cross Ange than Maria does in this show, and whether that has any bearing on how the two shows should be compared since there are similarities in themes.

The only exception is the female protagonist who gets married, is forcefully implanted with a child (against her will) and is strongly indicated that she will have all of her powers stripped away by the male patriarchal leader in due time.

It would have been interesting to see the show discuss them in more detail, I agree, but it is not like we lack any real indication of what they are. I believe that his statements to Gilbert in this episode, as well as the conclusion of his final conversation with Maria, outlined the basics of the new teachings Bernard was working on.

It's really great that you brought up the case of Cross Ange, because I have been thinking about comparisons between those two shows for a while, but I haven't been watching Cross Ange so I didn't feel qualified to talk about it. Specifically, I was wondering if Ange demonstrates more growth as a person in Cross Ange than Maria does in this show, and whether that has any bearing on how the two shows should be compared since there are similarities in themes.

All this talk of "feminist this" and "feminist that" about the show is all well and good, but I personally think that it uses the term a little too broadly.

So, it's a feminist series because it portrays a strong woman in the face of adversity who defeats a male villain/adversary? If that is all that it takes to be a feminist series, then is there really much of a need for the term anymore? Really any series with a female lead would be considered a feminist series then. Cross Ange would count, as it has a strong female lead who defeats a male villain, and is subjugated by a harsh system which she overcomes.

I just described both series with one description, but judging by the reactions on this site, it appears most would disagree and say that Maria is a feminist (excuse the pun) godsend, while Ange is it's antithesis.

I guess my big question is what differentiates these type of shows and makes one more "feminist" than the other, aside from superficial differences?

Come on Zac, you know what those pillows are for just as much as I do. They're not merely "hug pillows." Most of them show the characters in sexually revealing clothes or positions. I'm not saying they are blow-up dolls or anything, but these things tend to be about otaku fetishization of the female characters. Let's not be naive about it. And yea, I figured there might be unofficial ones, but that's why I only limited my point to official. If no official ones come out, I will withdraw this particular point, apologize, and credit the authors of this series with maintaining their integrity on that.

However, saying that the only way one can prove whether a character is feminist or not is if you have a direct quote from the mangaka is not realistic at all. Very few people are going to be giving such direct quotes, and even if you could get one, the mangaka could say whatever he wants whether it is supported by the material or not.