Forum - View topicWhy ANN Is Against SOPA/PIPA
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Banden
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A bad economy, more entertainment options in general, and elements of a social fad? I don't attend enough conventions to account for all of the factors, I don't know that anyone can. The fact that the industry has been unable to stop the bleeding tells me that they don't have a handle on the whole equation either. What I can do for you, though, is flip your question around: How do you explain the fact that conventions were so small in the early- to mid- 2000's when the size of the industry and sales and marketing were at their height? The conclusion I draw is that there simply doesn't appear to be a strong correlation between convention attendance and anime & manga sales. I'd be interested to know myself exactly why that is, but I suspect it has something to do with a certain proportion of con-goers who attend for reasons other than the direct media-oriented consumerism aspect. In any case, the numbers just don't add up to the conclusion of mass boycotts. Funimation reported last year that their sales have fallen more than half since 2004, which would mean that more than half their customers have turned up their nose and become black-hearted thieving pirates since 2004, if people who refuse to buy anything are what's primarily responsible for the industry's decline. If that were true, one would expect piracy discussions on forums like this to be a lot more one-sided? It just doesn't make sense, nevermind the fact that to the best of my knowledge no one in a position to know has ever claimed this to be the explanation. A more typical and plausible explanation is simply that we are all a little bit to blame, much as it may hurt to consider it. One hundred anime fans spending $10 less per annum on manga & DVDs does just as much damage as a single fan who decides to pirate everything from now on. |
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Xanas
Posts: 2058 |
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To some degree this might be true, Charred Knight, but not necessarily a great deal moreso than you have to convince people to finance you to work for them in any typical employment scenario. Almost everyone has to face the "job interview" where they present the case to the employer on why they would be a productive employee.
But this isn't entirely the case because there are entrepreneurs who would partner with artists/authors just as they do now to create a marketplace or service. Wealthy patrons who had a lot of money used to play a bigger role in production of media and without copyright you would very likely see a lot more rich people looking to finance things. Before the government started getting involved with funding general science research there was a lot of donations to that kind of thing. It was also common in the arts before corporate financing and advertising came into play more strongly. Last edited by Xanas on Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:01 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Charred Knight
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in other words it would be exactly like it is now where artist are paid almost nothing, while the entrepreneurs make all the money, except instead of having a variety of anime, most anime would be produced for something like a toyline (since they can't make enough money streaming it) |
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Xanas
Posts: 2058 |
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Consider first that without entrepreneurs and venture capitalists new stuff doesn't get made or marketed to be sold. Artists may be paid "almost nothing" but they still prefer that job to the jobs in other industries, and if they could do their job and that of the entrepreneur they would do so. The division of labor may not result in equality of wage, but entrepreneurship is a rarer skill proven by it's higher price.
Also, to the extent you disagree with this policy, you and others can show that you don't like it by purchasing from companies that pay artists more. Part of entrepreneurship could even involve advising what artists are paid up front, and to the extent consumers care about the percentages those businesses that practice this will be successful. This is also how it would play out in regards to things being purchased for lines of toys. But the market is not one-size-fits-all. You will likely see multiple things be viable to some extent. You will see niche markets supported by wealthier patrons who want to give more money to artists and who don't want to buy things that are made to support some line of toys. |
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Charred Knight
Posts: 3085 |
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I can't wait for the "Koch Brothers Mystery show" where the Koch Brothers team up with a talking dog to stop ghost and monsters who all turn out to be evil liberals in disguise who want unions, and to prevent the Grand Canyon from being used to dump things.
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Banden
Posts: 140 |
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Just thought of one more relevant data-point to consider in reference to Charred Knight's earlier post: ANN's own forum statistics.
ANN's forum usage peaked 4 years ago and is currently being accessed by less than 1/10th of that traffic, so sales definitely aren't the only things that have suffered the past 4 years. Why conventions seem to be immune is beyond me. |
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Xanas
Posts: 2058 |
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I will say that not all libertarians like them, they tend to be considered very "beltway." They are socially liberal but economically they are very much crony capitalists.
Last edited by Xanas on Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:00 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Charred Knight
Posts: 3085 |
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Forums grow and shrink all the time, I was the member of several anime forums that disappeared before the bubble crashed. For example MAL has taken a lot of the people who would post here.
and would be the ones most likely to support the arts. Keep in mind that the families that supported the arts tended to be wealthy families that controlled cities like the Medici and Borgias. Here's an example in 2008 David Koch paid 100 million dollars to renovate New York State Theater, for that price the theater was renamed the David H Koch Theater, and they can't rename it for another 50 years, and the Koch family can still refuse the rename. |
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Banden
Posts: 140 |
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That's a great example. So basically what you're saying is, there are a lot of new exciting possibilities out there that have gradually drawn people's time and attention away from ANN over the years which don't necessarily demonstrate rampant mal intent or a lack of support for the well-being of the domestic anime & manga industry on the part of the fans? That is a really great point you just made, if you don't mind my saying so. 
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Charred Knight
Posts: 3085 |
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There's a huge difference from people going to one anime forum to another, and people simply downloading an episode without paying. |
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Banden
Posts: 140 |
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You've missed the point by a country mile. Which is odd, because I'm completely following your lead at the moment. Your question was:
The answer to which is that convention attendance seems not to be the best, and definitely isn't the only, indicator of how large or prosperous the domestic customer base is at present. 
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Charred Knight
Posts: 3085 |
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Except that my point was that new forums could have caused the shrinking amount of people who post at ANN, not the lack of anime fans. Conventions are for the most part standing pat, Sakura Con is not losing fans to Anime Expo for example. |
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Banden
Posts: 140 |
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Are you being willfully obtuse? As we've already covered, anime cons are not down from a 2007 peak either. We're not talking about parallel trend-lines here. The point is that you're so focused on a few trees, with the convention attendance numbers, you're completely missing a whole forest of other information that don't paint such a ruthless picture of the fans. Look around, loosen your grip on your convictions for 3 seconds and consider another perspective. The world won't end, you might even learn something. |
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Charred Knight
Posts: 3085 |
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Is anime fandom down? Yeah it is, and there are probably people who go to anime conventions who don't care about anime all that much, but I also don't think the fandom has collapsed, which the sales would suggest. |
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Xanas
Posts: 2058 |
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One might also consider the trends outside anime, it's not like we've seen a 50% decrease in sales of Hollywood films despite the fact it's easier to find streams for those these days also.
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