Forum - View topicREVIEW: Devilman: The Classic Collection GN 1
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BodaciousSpacePirate
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Posts: 3018 |
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It's a "minus" in the same sense that "Hajime is strong medicine even in small doses, and potentially lethal in large ones" was presented as a minus in the Gatchaman Crowds streaming review: some people don't read the entire review and skip to the letter grades and the pros / cons, and it's helpful for people who aren't familiar with the franchise to know if there are going to be any elements that might be "absolute dealbreakers" for them. |
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the green death
Posts: 128 |
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I’ve been making my way through this messed up mini-,asterpiece just tongih before reading the review. There’s something so bitter and misanthropic about the origin story portion, I don’t usually like tough guy anti-heroes but the combination of manga artwork with almost an underground comix style and then everything going crazy so damned quick just works for me. Really love Nagai’s art too, though I understand why many wouldn’t- to me it’s Crumb to Tetzuku’s Disney.
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Princess_Irene
ANN Reviewer
Posts: 2637 Location: The castle beyond the Goblin City |
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I didn't forget, but not every reader who picks up the series is going to be aware of its age or how drastically different things were in the 1970s. Just trying to consider all the potential readers out there. |
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Errinundra
Moderator
Posts: 6572 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
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Posts deleted.
By all means engage with the reviewer, but don't impugn their sincerity, or resort to unwarranted political point scoring. This is an anime site, not a forum for airing political gripes. |
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katscradle
Posts: 469 |
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Rebecca, this is an aspect of your reviews that I very much appreciate. So it makes me sad when people have repeatedly griped at you for writing something because the review addresses different perspectives. I would think that would still be valuable overall, whether someone feels the same way about something or not. At least it has been helpful to me. So I just want to say thanks and keep up the good job. |
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SantaBla
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Devilman is a manga from 1972. Why do you assume that somehow his writing and art ability stopped evolving after that? That's like me taking your crappy devianart you did when you were 12 years old and then compare it to a full fledged professional artist's work and talk about how that pro artist has surpassed your 5 years old self. Maybe some of these authors like Miura have done something specific, better than Nagai, but none of them can claim to have tackled as many genres (comedy, fantasy, historical, action, horror, erotica etc etc) and themes as him. Does Miura do historical manga (Masamune Date)? Does he adapt classic poems (Like with Nagai's Dante's Comedy)? What's his knowledge of Japanese folklore? Not much I'd say. |
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Spawn29
Posts: 554 |
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I do find it to be a dumb con too since it makes you feel uncomfortable in a good way because how well it is handle. It would be like saying movies like Last House on the Left, I Spit on Your Grave, The Crow, Requiem for a Dream and A Clockwork Orange making you feel uncomfortable is a bad thing in those movies. Then again, I notice most American anime fans are not into those type of movies. Last edited by Spawn29 on Mon Jun 25, 2018 2:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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AiddonValentine
Posts: 2318 |
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Uh, the reasons Nagai has such a huge bibliography are 1) he's been around since the late 60s so of course he's going to have more years to pile on works and 2) a lot of his works actually didn't last very long. The original Devilman is only five volumes long and most of his works were either one shots or short series. Heck, the 80s Violence Jack is one of his few to get into double digits (getting a solid 30 volume run) so the man is not a veteran of long-form story-telling. It happens. And, yeah, a guy can evolve and change over the years. Miura shook off the sexual violence endemic to early Berserk to the point where it's basically non-existent now and Tahekiko Inoue went from a simple basketball manga in Slam Dunk to doing his own amazing rendition of the life of Miyamoto Musashi. But considering that Nagai STILL has written Devilman series (like Grimoire)...well, he's still the same old Go Nagai. For good and ill, the manga industry's pervy old uncle who's a little too into splatter films. Again, I'm not trying to belittle his place in the history of the medium. The guy's a legend, but successors to his work have shaven away some of the more uncomfortable aspects he never shook off. |
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SantaBla
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The years aren't the only thing that you should take into account. Go Nagai worked on 5 manga at a time in the 70s, his output far exceeds any new author. Even when you take into account that a lot of his manga aren't as long, there's still a few that went above 10 volumes; Harenchi Gakuen, Devilman Lady, Devilman Saga (Soon), Hanappe Bazooka, Go Dan etc. His teacher, Shotaro Ishinomori holds the Guinness book of world records for most number of pages published by an author, and I'm confident that Nagai isn't that far behind. Next time I'll do a count of the number of published volumes by Nagai, and you'll be surprised.
And so did Nagai. Mugen Utamaro, Devilman Saga, Date Masamune, Maeda Toshiie, Houjou Souun etc. There was a clear evolution even in the 90s.
And here we go again. Go Nagai has no involvement with Grimoire. He didn't draw it, he didn't write it. This has to be said a thousand times.The writing style of Grimoire and Devilman Saga are completely different. Please have a look at modern Nagai manga before you think he's the same old from the 70s. And here's the problem again. People don't read modern Go Nagai, so they don't know if he evolved or not, and proceed to judge him on his 70s output, which was an interesting period for him, but not the only period. |
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Coup d'État
Posts: 179 |
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Those are different, though. In works like Clockwork Orange (more so in the book than in the movie), the toxicity is part of the story, part of what was the author's intention. We are supposed to be repulsed by Alex's violence, he's clearly in the wrong, and that was the desired intend. The movie does a somewhat poor job at this, as it cuts out both the actual ending and glorifies the violence to the point where viewers may come to the conclusion that Alex and his gang are "cool". Another example not from your list would be Fight Club, where Tyler Durden is not intended to be an hero, but clearly an antagonist. Casting shirtless, bad-ass Brad Pitt did not really help getting this across, though. The same is not necessarily true for Devilman, where those criticized aspects of Akira were not meant to be seen as negative. The intention behind them is different. While the story as a whole is anti-war in themes, Akira's non-violent self is seen as undesirable in the beginning, both by Miki, the thugs and (arguably) the reader. Miki thinks his transformation is "amazing" and seems very impressed when he safes her from the same thugs next time. |
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Spawn29
Posts: 554 |
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I disagree because I still feel like Nagai's work is still fine today. I still like his work over the people that try to copy off from him. It's how like I still enjoy the original Dracula novel over the other Vampire novels that have been inspired by Bram Stoker. |
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Joichiro Nishi
Posts: 163 |
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So your problem is that Miki acts like a teenager rather than a thoughtful and mature person. And no, Nagai's job isn't taking our hands and tell us exactly how we're supposed to feel and react. I prefer the manga Miki way over the Mary Sue from Crybaby. She might fill your standards about pacifism and anti-bullying but she was so incredibly bland and so pure that she won't take a weapon even in self-defense. That's not human, that's an idealization of a pure maiden. People are flawed, how you can make an anti-war statement if you don't fill it with people? |
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Coup d'État
Posts: 179 |
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I don't really have a problem per se with this, no. I love Devilman. It's not about Miki alone, though. There is no lens to look through in which Akira's transformation is supposed to be read as negative. The way he was before, he was a "kind, timid boy" [Ryo], "Miss Fudo is truly a refined and gentle lady" [Miki] is painted very unfavorable. And as soon as he "mans up", the girl he likes is all over him. Mikis family loves it instantly. No-one in his live is the least bit worried about his change in personality. I personalty don't mind his new personality all that much, I just don't like how negatively the books presents him being "weak" before. Miki literally calls him a lady, and there is nothing in the text that suggests that this is not Nagai's intent. This not not very nuanced, and it, well, didn't age well. |
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Spawn29
Posts: 554 |
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I think the art in the original Devilman is fine. It's surreal, abstract and creative in my opinion. When it comes to creating monsters, Japan is the best at it in my opinion. All of the monsters you see in Western media that are so boring looking in my opinion. Not to mention Go Nagai has a neat style to his work that you rarely see these days. I can't stand modern anime & manga art like One Piece, K-On, etc. Devilman gives that creepy expressionism feel to it at times.
I think people these days are too harsh on older art styles and expect it to reach their standers in my opinion. |
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Cardcaptor Takato
Posts: 5097 |
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I would also point out that Devilman has also been heavily on shoujo manga and not just shonen or seinen. Naoko Takeuchi recently cited Devilman as an inspiration for Sailor Moon in a recent interview and you can see this influence in the monster designs for both the Sailor Moon manga and the anime.
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