Forum - View topicANNCast x Anime World Order OTP
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Charred Knight
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Exactly I wasnt supposed to be laughing at the two parter Sword Art Online that was a mystery episode because of how out of place it was. The writer seriously thought that the protagonist should be solving mysteries like Scooby Doo. Kirito: Whats that van doing here? Asuna: I do believe thats the Harlem Globetrotters. What are you doing in Sword Art Online Meadowlark Lemon Meadowlark Lemon: Well Curly has just inherited his late Aunts Mansion and so the whole team has decided to go see it. Not to mention the ending of the Sword Art Online arc were the villain reveals why he did everything. spoiler[He forgot why he did it. You know like you forgot to put the milk away] |
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Animehermit
 Posts: 964 Location: The Argama |
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Don't really see how you could say that, considering both games are generally well received. Personally I thought MGS4 was fantastic game start to finish. |
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GVman
 Posts: 729 |
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I still really liked the game when I got to that level; I didn't start to dislike it until I fought the fat guy with the scissors.
To each their own. I absolutely loved MGS4; from Snake's horrible attempts at humor when their planning the raid to the ending, I loved it all. Rising felt like it was trying and failing to be a Kojima game; he wasn't involved with it, so I can't say I wasn't too surprised. |
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Nom De Plume De Fanboy
 SubscriberExempt from Grammar Rules Posts: 614 Location: inland US west, pretty rural |
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They kinda answered this during the cast; it just ain't possible to do it every week, what with work and all. It's a crying shame, it seems to have happened to a lot of my favorite pod casts in the last couple of years. Even over at MaximumPC magazine, where they do it as part of their work, staff cutbacks have dropped them to roughly once a month. ( Now, they said on that cast that if they had a couple more interns, basically working for free ...  )
Podcasts are just another one of those things that come and go, and we seem to be in a down period for them. At least for the things I like. It'll change eventually. |
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Rahxephon91
 Posts: 1859 Location: Park Forest IL. |
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spoiler[ MGS4 is filled with character assassinations that crap on previous games. Take Snake for instance. MGS1 is his character arc of finding a reason to fight, it's the entire point of Grey Fox's speech and why he tells it to Raiden in MGS2. In the end he finds a reason to fight and we see him keep on fighting to make the world a better place for the future generations. Snake is a lost soul who gains purpose in MGS1 and MGS2 he is perhaps one of the most inspirational action game people around. MGS4 takes a crap on this and casts Snake in a real pathetic light were everything we see him in is supposed to make us feel so sad for him. It's hackneyed and hallow though, because the thematic reason for this is "he's old", "he's facing his mortality". That's crap, Snake's entire life has been him facing his mortality and in MGS1 when he understands Grey Fox's credo it's him saying "yes I'm a soldier and yeah I may die, but at least I'll keep fighting for what I believe in". Snake has already faced his mortality, hell he's decided to go against the world with Philanthropy. I find it very hard to think this is the natural development of Snake in MGS4. Snake should be the dude who despite breaking down and being old, knows he still has a job to do and keeps going on, ushering others to keep going. Not this sad sack in MGS4. The Snake in 4 is nothing like Snake in 1 or 2. Kojima had nothing else to do with the character and made a contrived character arc and this very bad writing that is there to fill things that don't need filling are whats wrong with MGS. Look at Raiden. He was made the way he is in 4 so people would think he is cool. Apparently, break dancing ninjas is all you need to be to be considered cool. Because the Raiden 4 is so much more angsty and annoying then the Raiden in 2. Going around talking about "HOW JACK IS DEAD" and this nonsensical drama with Rose. No this is not cool and it's not the Raiden development we got from 2. Two ends with Snake passing Grey Fox's ideas until Raiden. Raiden has basically decided he's going to find a reason to fight and he's pretty hopeful for the future. I guess that idea went to crap all so we can have this very dark and emo Raiden in 4, but I guess it's cool because he cuts up Gekkos. Then you've got weird Namoi humping Vamp and that really awkward Otcon stuff that was just embarrassing beyond belief. The Eva and Snake romance in three was campy, but it fit the tone of that game. Namoi and Otocon in 4 is just really awkward and painful to watch. Speaking of Vamp, he's the perfect example of MGS problem of over explaining. People have powers in the MGS world. I don't think anyone needed to explain Psycho Mantis or any of the Cobra unit's powers. They just have them and thier goofy. Except I guess fans who don't understand this concept need to have everything explained and Kojima just half assess it with the Nanomachines. So now Vamp who appeared to just be a dude with powers described by his name like almost every MGS villain has his powers explained by a cheap way that asks more questions. Why isn't everyone using these things? A big question like that wouldn't even be around if you left things alone, but oh yeah just throw in a cheap sidenote that Namoi is behind it so she can die in this scene as well. MGS is crazy things don't need to be explained, but they are and sometimes they are worse then the previous explanation. Ocelot is the Son of The Boss and The Sorrow. He inherited some powers of his father. MGS is crazy when it comes to genes and Liquid has special genes. Put 2 and 2 together and well you've got an ok explanation as to the Liquid Ocelot thing, except I guess that wasn't ok, it needs to be explained even though as far as I'm concerned I'm already on board. I feel Kojima was high on the success of the Boss in MGS3 so he thought MGS4 also needed a self sacrificing hero reveal and it just dosen't work. It makes MGS2's scenes make no sense and somehow it's just really silly. Ocelot was pretending this whole time? What? How does that make sense with any of his actions in MGS1 or 2. Which now turns MGS into some ideological battle between Zero and Big Boss which is strange, because Zero didn't seem to care that much about the Boss before and all those people who you liked and were fun in MGS3 they are all the bad guys for some reason. Where did anyone of that come from? There's many other story flaws that I hardly remember about 4, but lets talk about the gameplay it also sucks. Obviously all the talk about having multiple factions in the war amounted to nothing. You can't get the PMC's on your side and almost by default you're on the side of the rebels. Who care's this mechanic gets thrown out after level 3. Really, the game is quite unambitious and really a downgrade from what they were initially planning. Really, the improvements to MGS4 begin and stop at the fact that it plays like a normal TPS now, but I mean the Subsistence version of MGS3 was already that, MGS4 is just another step. Outside of that it brings hardly anything. The supposed "no where to hide" that was to be the "stealth on the battlefield" much like MGS3's big "Stealth in the jungle" was half assed. Beyond the fact that it's just the first 2 levels you hardly have things that take advantage of the new environment like eating and camo did in 3. A few set pieces and thats about it. The first two levels are about the only good things because they are the only ones that come close to the "stealth on the battlefield" that 4 was supposed to be about. The concept sounded cool, it was executed poorly and then the game gives up. 3 is a tedious follow mission that's even worse on repeats. It turns into a retread of MGS3's bike scene without all the tension and buildup. Then a boring Boss that I'm not sure where any challenge is. Then level 4 just plains sucks. Level 5 is what two rooms of stealth, boss battle that sucks because it tires to be Psycho mantis and then just says "here shoot these people" then after that you run down a straight hallway. Great. Then a badly controlled fist fight that gets by because it plays MGS tunes. Quite honestly all the boss battles in MGS4 sucks(the gave up with PW). They lack character and personality. The beauties are already less important then any group of villains which was already a flaw with every game after 1. I guess Kojima just gave up and had Drebin fill in the blanks and the fill ins are all the same. The Beauties just aren't interesting to fight. The first one kind of is because you run around and look for the changes in the environment, but that's it. The one cool boss battle is when you control a MG, because finally, but the Beauties are hardly memorable and thats a problem in this series with such great boss battles and characters. I just don't see how 4 is a good game. PW on the other hand. Well I don't remember because I didn't pay attention to it's story. To me PW and PO are basically the same story. Really unnecessary gaps meant to explain in horrifying detail how Big Boss became the man he is. I don't need to know, it was already so simple. MGS3 explains it to you in one cutscene. When Big Boss refuses to shake the FBI guys hand, that's it. He's sour over the Boss, he'll never forget what happened, and he's probably lost all faith in the current systems. His ideology of having a place where soldiers are needed all stems from The Boss and that 1 cutscene basically explains everything. PO attempts to add more, but arrives at the same place. PW tries to explain even more and further convolutes it. Actually he's A GUN and he got over the Boss for some reason. WHY? and why does that help the series when MGS3 set-up everything perfectly. Now it really is just a battle between 2 people for kind of thematically dumb reasons. They aren't actually upset over the boss as MGS4 lead us to believe. Zero is just a dick despite what MGS3 presented him as. Thats what PW is to me. A game that just craps on everything 4 did and it gets worse with Coleman. In MGS3 the Boss' sacrifice is her own. The mission goes bad and she decides she'll play her part. It's noble and amazing. But nope, it was all a set up by Coleman. The government actually planned all along to kill her. I mean PO already kind of screws with this by saying Volgin knew all along which is a big huh? But really whats the point here other then to lessen what the Boss did. Sure she still did it on her own as far as she knows, but it just cheapens it if it was all a set-up that a future game chooses to reveal. Honestly I don't remember much about PW, because I don't like it. I didn't pay attention to everything. I dislike the characters. I dislike everything. Especially the gameplay. I like to play by myself. PW is a co-op game that isn't balanced for single player. So now the bossess just become very long and drawn out battles. They aren't tough mind you, just tedious and long. I shoot my missiles, drop a supply drop, and then repeat this routine for a while. All the bosses play out like this. So Kojima just gave up on the personality and character of bossess which is something I loved about MGS and he also gave up on making them interesting and unique. Oh just level up you're weapons. Ok, which makes PW a big grind. So now I have to go through these really boring levels with really bad AI that you can really just run up to them and CQC them with no problem. You could also just shoot them and since the levels are small really all you need to do is go into a corner and snipe them. The PSP kind of sucks for aiming controls so it's easier to just run up and CQC them. So much for stealth gameplay. Oh since you can aim real easy on the HD versions, the missions become a cakewalk. So basically to level up my secret base I have to keep doing these not-so-fun missions. It's not fun. PW is no fun. So yeah I quite honestly think those games are quite bad.] Last edited by Rahxephon91 on Sat Feb 01, 2014 4:55 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Anime World Order
 Posts: 389 Location: Florida |
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I'm sure the last thing anyone reading these comments was expecting was an extended, untagged set of spoilers for Metal Gear Solid 4, a game which was never discussed at any point in the podcast...
The BBC Sherlock is the one that's immensely popular at the anime conventions as well as online, so it's a safe bet to assume that people have seen take on the character before you assume they've seen say, Jeremy Brett.
I should have reviews of both Nobunagun as well as Nobunaga the Fool in the next issue of Otaku USA, so I am indeed watching it. I haven't heard or seen much buzz about either show online, but it could just be that I'm looking in the wrong places. After all, I barely see anybody doing anything for Space Dandy and that show is being watched by over a million people. Could it be a similar case as what we pointed out in this episode regarding Afro Samurai: that the people watching are by and large NOT people heavily invested in anime fandom? It's certainly possible. From my perspective, it seems like the lion's share of creative energies is currently being directed towards making things related to Kill La Kill. As for Rising, which is indeed something I mentioned on this episode:
I refer to that particular encounter as a "Platinum gate." See, Platinum Games always under-explains a key mechanic of their games in their tutorials, leaving it for the player to discover on their own. Then at some point they'll put you up against something where if you haven't figured it out by then, you're not going to progress beyond that point. Rising has a few such under-explained fundamental mechanics: parrying, dodging (not essential until you play on higher difficulties and go for higher grades), and using Blade Mode precisely. The fight that started to mark your waning discontent is one where if you still can't quickly and properly line up the blade's path, you can really only win by attrition. The bosses afterwards are even tougher since the game assumes "okay, you definitely know how to do [X] well if you've made it this far." I plan on starting The Wonderful 101 next week, and I understand it too exhibits this. But I don't consider it a failing of Platinum's design. That is as they intended things to be, since their design is geared towards "mastery" (play the game once to learn how to play, then replay on higher difficulties with tweaked AI and encounters and try for higher scores) rather than "completion" (play the game once to see what happens then move on to the next game since all that changes with difficulty modes is damage dealt/received) as per the current norm. |
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GVman
Posts: 729 |
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Miracles can happen, or ANN could pay them. Who knows?
It wasn't so much the gameplay in that level as much as it was the plot elements that were revealed; I also felt like Scissor Fats was pretty flat (along with everyone who wasn't Raiden). It wasn't until the end boss I had a lot of trouble; I was never particularly accurate with Blade Mode. Part of what put me off the game was how Raiden was out fighting again instead of with his family. I've been tempted to go back and give it a chance (maybe I'll find the end boss' lines to be less cringe-inducing if I'm a bit better at the game), but I'm gonna be waiting for a steam sale before I do that. @Rahxephon91: All the things you listed as dislikes were things I liked, as far as MGS4; I have yet to play PW. It all made for some good twists and turns. Plus, people change in ways you wouldn't expect in real life. |
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Lord Geo
Posts: 2578 Location: North Brunswick, New Jersey |
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I've only played the demo for W101, though I did buy it, but I distinctly remember reading that Platinum made W101 with the idea of the first playthrough being the equivalent of one giant tutorial. In other words, by the time you beat it you'll have taught yourself all of the mechanics you need, with the second playthrough being the "real" playthrough since you now know how to play it. |
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walw6pK4Alo
 Posts: 9322 |
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The biggest thing for anime needing hit shows really just comes off as a problem the western fandom faces. Maybe in the long term accessibility may harm anime from a financial stand-point, but it isn't yet, and isn't really show any signs of slowing down either. Yeah, the population decline does seem like the larger and more looming future threat, but I'm not sure I want an anime industry that only produces shows for export to the US over ones for the native audience. For now, they do get hits, and there's no true divide of "Japan likes this, internationals like that." What's a hit in Japan can be a hit elsewhere, even if it's steeped in "Japanese-ness" like Bakemonogatari.
I refer back to past arguments I've made: so they make anime for the west and they bomb in Japan and do well here – doing well here isn't the same kind of revenue stream that doing well in Japan is. I do think those Marvel anime did well, but they were also incredibly discounted compared to other licensed anime, like a half or maybe even a third of the price. Even if those do well, having the Japanese make anime for your western properties and tastes basically just turns them into fancy animation outsourced work. Do they really NEED to make more hits for international audiences, or is that just a wish? I just wish they'd adapt better manga more often, but still aim at Japanese audiences first. That's how you get your Natsume Yuujinchous, after all.
I was that apprehensive as first, and while the show is absolutely more of a blatant toy commercial than Gundam has ever been before, EVER, it does have some fun referential humor and a very hot mom character. I otherwise tend to zone out during all of the scenes without her, Ral, or animated robots on screen. For shorts, do I like Starlight Angel and On Your Mark, but Amazing Nuts' Kung Fu Love was one of the more poignant and entrancing shorts I've come across. |
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Animehermit
Posts: 964 Location: The Argama |
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They don't NEED to make a hit in the west. They'd just make a lot more money if they did.
And if they wanted to make a hit in the west, they'd have to do what Zac and the AWO folks mentioned. That's what it takes to be a huge hit here. |
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vanfanel
 Posts: 1248 |
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Enjoyable show as always.
"Vs." is a loanword in Japanese, and somewhere along the way, it lost the nuance of necessarily meaning "A is against B." In many cases, it should just be translated as "and." I've heard similar comments about old 70's Go Nagai movies like "Mazinger vs. Devilman" and such: "Why are they on the same side if the title says 'versus'?!" Favorite anime short, off the top of my head, is probably "The Order to Stop Construction" from Neo-Tokyo. Non-anime animation: Love "Mask of the Phantasm" and the Timm/Dini DC animation in general. "Spectacular Spiderman" was pretty good on the Marvel side of things; shame it got cut short. In another league altogether is Aleksandr Petrov's paint-on-glass animation; what he does is amazing. Haven't yet seen a 3D CG movie I've loved. I've liked several (mostly from Pixar), but I watch 'em once and I'm done with 'em. Not sure why that is. (Most of those I don't like merge together in my mind into one giant generic, smirking, snark-talking animal.) Cartoons were a big part of my childhood in the 80s, but the only ones that still mean anything to me were anime: Starblazers and Macross. I don't ever need to see Transformers/GI Joe/He-Man/She-Rah/etc on the big screen. Though if they could ever adapt (faithfully) some of the 80s toy properties that Bill Mantlo wrote comic scripts for (Micronauts, ROM: Spaceknight), I'd be all over that. Has writing gotten better or worse? Depends on the kind of writing. Certainly there's more complexity now, but the 70s had a kind of purity that's been lost among the card battles for kids and the rote fanservice for adults. Could shows like "Anne of Green Gables," "3,000 Leagues in Search of Mother," "Future Boy Conan," or "The Rose of Versailles" get greenlit today? All of those are from the 70s, and I think they're much better written than a lot of what we see today. But I don't know...I could cherry-pick some shows from the 70s and today to "prove" the exact opposite just as easily. I wish the dialogue was better all around. Sometimes it takes a good example to make you aware of something that's missing, but in "Crest of the Stars" there's this lovely, rambling conversation at the beginning where the two protagonists are getting to know each other. Ｈｏｗ often do we see characters in anime having anything approaching a real conversation? |
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Zump
Posts: 131 |
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The thing about 70's anime is that many of the writers working in the industry had previously worked in film and television of various genres prior to working on anime, as opposed to nowadays where most of the writers got into the industry because they were anime fans. |
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unicornwarlance
Posts: 3 |
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I live in the Netherlands. and here is anime and manga really to no existence .1 magazine and a 1 or 2 manga really small publisher,s.
and where it happen here in Europe is in France and Italy and great Britain. and legal wise digetal manga nothing legal digital anime content streaming nothing. and anime has a lot potential and i think that the company s in japan must join force,s with oversee company,s to promote anime and manga to get on tv or netflix. because people don't now where to buy or let alone existence. |
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Anime World Order
Posts: 389 Location: Florida |
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That's effectively what I was trying to get across. I think it's something of a linguistic imprecision on my part, but to partially reiterate what was intended: "for international audiences" is generally intended to be shorthand for "for audiences other than anime otaku." It's easy to either forget or accept as "obvious" that most people in Japan don't even bother watching anime, and the reasons for doing so have a good bit of overlap (but not total) with international audiences. It might be more accurate then to say that they need to make more hits for GENERAL audiences in Japan, which is easier said than done since we're probably at the point where enough time has passed that general Japanese audiences are reticent to watch animated dramas. They'd rather see those adapted into live-action, which is what tends to happen more frequently with popular non-action focused seinen and josei works. Since the same is true for American audiences, figuring out how to reach one audience would mean significant progress towards the other.
This is something I've heard for many years, but I've always felt unsure as to just how true it actually is. Certainly most every Japanese professional wrestling match since the 1970s starts by saying "[person(s) A] VERSUS [person(s) B]" and since some of those old-time figures are considered more important to general society than anyone in the US would ever be, there must be some widespread understanding of the concept that "versus" means "against" more so than "and." Certainly, during this episode we mentioned the Japanese film Versus, though to be fair despite its undeniable status as the Greatest Movie EVER! it wasn't something Japanese audiences saw at any significant level. But let's give them the benefit of the doubt. Even if the "vs" of "Lupin the Third vs Detective Conan" WERE to be interpreted as "and," shouldn't the inherent nature of the characters dictate that logically, they should be actively opposing one another throughout? I suppose I was just spoiled by Freddy vs Jason...which is now almost a decade ago... |
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SpacemanHardy
Posts: 2509 |
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That scenario right there would be infinitely more interesting than any of the storylines that were actually *in* Sword Art Online. |
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