Forum - View topicNEWS: New Yaoi Company Launched
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mufurc
 Posts: 612 |
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"801" (pronounced as "ya-o-i") is the latest "euphemism" for the word (that I know of, anyway) and it's been pretty widespread in the recent years... I always see it on Japanese websites/communities.
Anyway, the impression I get from the fandom (which was confirmed by pretty much everyone I asked) is that as a word originating from doujinshi culture and meaning what it means (that is, "no climax, no point, no meaning"), "yaoi" has a negative overtone, implying that the work in question is badly drawn and/or has no point, so it's kind of insulting to refer to a professional work as "yaoi." I remember that there was a mangaka who got offended when someone called her work "yaoi" instead of "BL" (which is a more general umbrella term). In any case, I've never seen "yaoi" referring to professional BL works in Japan, neither on websites nor in stores - pro works are usually called either BL or "ladies' comics."
I knew that she didn't want people to think her works are gay porn (which BL is not), but I don't know if she specifically said "yaoi" or not... |
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hanachan01
 Posts: 504 |
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I personally use the term Boy's Love/BL. It's the term that's most popular in Japan, and also, yaoi is used to refer to doujinshi in Japan, where as BL is used to describe original works. Also, many American anime fans pronounce 'yaoi' in various different ways, such as 'yow-ee', 'yah-oy', 'yah-o-ee', etc., but all Americans can say BL and Boy's Love.
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gynocrat_rex
 Posts: 57 Location: Texas |
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^^ I get your point, but first...I happen to be a mom in Texas who makes a living writing BL [you know, the kind with ISBNs attached] and most of us down here in Austin are very liberal. We're not all insane fundies with some sort of wingnut agenda. [and the that sex toy case was tried in the media more than in court, she didn't do time,-she just lost her Girls Scout leadership position for selling sex toys at evening parties. ^_-] Forgive me; I cringed when I saw 'Texas' and 'Mom'. --But on what you're saying, and why some of us are rolling our eyes over 801...if you know the hardcore material will raise ire, why bother to license it. If you're making a healthy profit from the youthful material then there's no reason to stick yet another hand into the pie and grab more when your mouth is already full. 
Hi Kagemusha! Yes, that's my issue. I don't know if you call it overextending, but the same crit's been leveled at Tokyo Pop recently. You don't have to be all things to all fans. Let the companies who 'know what they're doing' handle the mature titles. I think 'Junay' or whatever they want to call themselves now, needs to cater to the fans they have [the gay-male romance fans, the teen girls, and the straight guys who like BL] by continuing to license the youthful BL titles, but I think this 801 is...well...just being greedy. 0_0. RabbitRevolution is right in her comments, they don't want to alienate the fan base they've acquired by catering to that precious few who've demanded they go more hardcore. Sure, I understand that Be Beautiful dropped the ball when they licensed their +18 material and are still failing to deliver it...NOW if 801 wants to pick up those poorly distributed licenses, that would be sweet.
I know! It's the same sort of sophomoric-mentality that likely made them call the 'new' line JUNE. Oy. As for the Kodaka quote: She called it 'Yaoi' in terms of an American interview [the one they're quoting in the wiki]; the word 'Yaoi' was being used in that interview because it was an American interview. She--like many other pro mangaka in Japan, always refer to their works as BL and not 'gay manga', and certainly not 'yaoi' which is pointless sexy porn. Never tell a Gay-mangaka that you like his 'yaoi work', then you'll be considered offensive. Most BL mangaka know the score when it comes to the American market, so they know that 'Yaoi' is an umbrella term here. When in Rome... Kage, Yuri is just not really a 'market' in Japan. 0_o. There are no standard anthologies for it [Yuri being for women by women style stories] and it's just a minor off-shoot of shoujo created in the self-publishing arena [doujinshi] or in the indie pro scene, much like BL used to be in the 70's before blooming into something bigger. No one is going to license a 'line of yuri titles' because they just aren't there. I can tell you to keep your eyes on Seven Seas though; they're making an effort. ^_- |
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Dargonxtc
 Posts: 4463 Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋 |
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Okay thanks for all the great responses to my question, and sorry if I missed it. so I will be dense and just ask right out.
Does this mean gay porn manga, or is it not quite that hardcore? I mean I flipped through some yaoi at the bookstore and didn't see anything too hardcore about it, so when that word is used I want to know if it was an exaggeration or for real. I mean are we talking about amateur colonoscopy, or just naked kissing. |
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mufurc
Posts: 612 |
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Oy indeed. 
Ah, thank you, I get it now. I didn't know BL mangaka were so well-versed in the American fandom... (but then, I don't really follow pro BL nowadays.) As for yuri - there's maybe no significant market for yuri (at least compared to BL and hentai), but it seemed to me that Yuri shimai and its successor (is it still running?) were trying to get a hold on it by trying be unisex, or rather, trying to appeal to lesbians, straight women and men who just want some girl-on-girl action. It seems they didn't really succeed.
The thing is, it's not "gay", in fact, it rarely features characters who are expressedly gay. It's drawn by women for women, not for gay men. So we may say that it's as hardcore as porn for women gets, which sometimes means hardcore porn, but usually it doesn't get much more hardcore than, say, Queer as Folk. (Actually, my gay male friends generally don't like BL because they don't find it hardcore enough.) |
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Dargonxtc
Posts: 4463 Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋 |
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Ok, ok I understand women is the target audience. Believe me I have seen the madness. But don't tell me that two guys blowing each other isn't gay. So to rephrase you, it is hardcore gay(male) porn aimed at women. Either way thanks for giving a strait up answer. |
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gynocrat_rex
Posts: 57 Location: Texas |
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Actually, some BL gets extremely hardcore. >_> Almost nasty to the point of "blech!" You'll never see those titles licensed though. And yes, Gay manga is 'Bara' and normally aimed at Gay men, though in the last few years some companies began making 'muscle' BL for female fans of bara. Using gay mangaka and female BL mangaka to create stories for them, so just like in the west--the lines are getting blurred a bit.
No, it's not. And the word "Hardcore" is truly misleading here. Yes there are titles in Japan that are 'hardcore BL' but you have to remember BL is not huge in Japan, it's a niche market and so 'true hardcore BL' is a niche within a niche. 0_0. -Tina |
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Dargonxtc
Posts: 4463 Location: Nc5xd7+ スターダストの海洋 |
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Ok, my question is, are they targeting the male or female audience with this? I always thought the yaoi market in the US was heavily female. Is this kind of thing going for the overwelming female market or the niche?
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gynocrat_rex
Posts: 57 Location: Texas |
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BL has always been for women by women. These aren't just 'men' depicted in stories with one another. These are 'idealized' males, or what women's 'fantasy' is of any given typical male manga character. So to pick up a BL manga and say, wow, guys and guys--it's gay porn for women... no, it's not. BL fans aren't really keen on reading about Gay men having Gay sex and Gay problems.
Gay men are men. They like to see men in their porn [and their gay manga] and so they're not idealizing anything...they want to see other men, like them. ^^ That's the difference in Japan. In Japan BL is a niche market; it's for women by women, but that doesn't mean some men don't read it...they just aren't the target audience nor do they make up even 2% of the creator base. Gay manga, on the other hand, is for gay male manga readers. It's drawn a certain way, and the stories are told a certain way and really do not resemble what's in typical BL. In the west it's weird because OEL/BL is not so easily defined, and I think people are going to see this when DramaQueen releases their OEL/BL anthology at Yaoicon [ANN is a little late with the DramaQueen licensing announcements  ].
I think if anything, DMP has shown the world that the less explicit, more romantic, and plot-driven BL is enjoyed by male western readers both straight and gay...so the Western market really is open to much more cross-pollinating of what is Gay manga style in Japan, and what is not Gay manga…which is yaoi [BL]. |
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CochraneO
Posts: 15 |
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Heck, given all the problems CPM/Be Beautiful has had of late, I would be only slightly surprised if they wound up somehow doing a deal to take on CPM/Be Beautiful yaoi... |
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gynocrat_rex
Posts: 57 Location: Texas |
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That would be sweet for BL fans. Perhaps some of those once employed by BeBe are part of the 'staff' at 801. ^^ |
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hanachan01
Posts: 504 |
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Actually, I'm a BL fan who'd be interested in reading that. I'm kinda getting bored with the seme/uke thing, and I'd like to see a more realistic approach to a gay romance. I'm even writing a manga that I'm going to sell online and at Artists Alley about a teenage couple who struggle to stay together amoung society and parental pressure to conform, with a 'Brokeback' style ending. That's the stuff I want to read, not how 'uke' xxx-kun is, and his seme, b-sempai, is to him. Yawn, I've read it before...give me something new. If you could, could you reccomend any titles to me? I don't care if the guys are fat, balding, whatever....as long as it's non-pornographic(because I simply don't like porn), and it is non BL, but gay manga, made for gay men. |
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gynocrat_rex
Posts: 57 Location: Texas |
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And see, you're a perfect example of how different the western market is. ; Honestly, OEL/BL is relatively more realistic, and I have noticed that even some mangaka who've been exposed to the western concepts even write about 'gay men' in their BL. ^^ But I beg you Hanachan...keep the word Brokeback away from my manga! The whole concept of using that film to describe BL makes me want to bring my lunch back up!! 
I can rec some titles over at DMP this week--I won't do that here because I'm not sure of the age demographic on these forums and so I won't rec OEL/BL or gay comics. 
-Tina |
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hanachan01
Posts: 504 |
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Oh, I'm sorry! I meant 'Brokeback' as in the ending is tragic....the actual events of the manga I'm working on and the events of the movie and novella 'Brokeback Mountain' are different. And you can pm a list of recomendations so we don't post them where minors can see them. 
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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Another company? Is it really necessary.
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