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NEWS: Borders, Barnes & Noble Report Weak Holiday Sales


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TsukasaElkKite



Joined: 22 Nov 2005
Posts: 3973
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 12:45 pm Reply with quote
I spent about $150 in holiday money there, all on manga.
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Jarmel



Joined: 15 May 2004
Posts: 280
Location: NYC
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 1:47 pm Reply with quote
Keonyn wrote:
I wouldn't say eBook readers are a nail in the coffin. To be honest, the B&N stores I shop at are always busy every time I'm there. Yeah, I can go online and get a book from Amazon and save a bit, but often times the savings aren't that much with books, particularly when you factor in the wait, and not being able to hold the copy in your hands to verify its condition. A lot of people who buy books aren't just buying a copy to read, but something to keep on their shelf, so condition matters.

Plus, I can't really check a book out and come across new books as easily online. Yeah, Amazon has their recommendations based on browsing and order history, but that is frankly worthless in my opinion. No, nothing yet beats just browsing through the local bookstore when on the prowl for something new and interesting. You are exposed to far more when checking out those shelves, and you can take a seat and read a few chapters to see if it'd be worth the trouble. If it's a reference or art book or something like that, it's also valuable to be able to look through it and see all it offers so you know if it's worthwhile or not.

So yeah, if I know exactly what I want, I can save a few bucks on Amazon or Buy. Generally though, that's not why I go to book stores, so Amazon and Buy are still of no use to me in that regard. So no, they're not more and more obsolete, and it actually has seemed apparent to me that the pricing gap isn't as pronounced as it used to be.


However alot of people like the convenience. They like being able to buy 20 books at any time and carry it around with them. Look at CES there were like 4 or 5 different prototypes there. Alot of different companies(possibly Apple as well) are going to be making a push for it.
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Richard J.



Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 3367
Location: Sic Semper Tyrannis.
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 3:05 pm Reply with quote
mike.motaku wrote:
Can I come to your job and tell you what you should be charging for the goods or services you supply? No.
That's what we have government for: Making everyone else submit or be taxed to death. Wink

I bought some manga from a closing Walden Books in Florida a few days ago so it's no surprise to me they're having issues.

The biggest problem I've felt Borders had was the complete unwillingness to discourage people from just sitting down in the store and reading whatever they wanted. I saw that with manga and novels alike. Plus, I think they really wasted a lot of capital on the DVDs and CDs. (Seriously, why would I come into a book store to buy DVDs at full or near-full MSRP?)

Pricing things low is fine but you always have to turn a profit. Pricing best-sellers and big successes low makes zero sense to me too, shouldn't they be using sales and lowered prices to move product that isn't moving at the normal price? I mean, doesn't it make the most sense to offer the weakest sellers at a discount or even as a "buy-one-get-one-free" deal? (Never would have started Kitchen Princess if not for my Books-A-Million marking it as part of a three-for-one deal.)
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:19 pm Reply with quote
The stern of our B&N slipped below the waves a few weeks ago.
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dragonrider_cody



Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Posts: 2541
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2010 5:24 pm Reply with quote
Jaymie wrote:
Book stores are becoming more and more obsolete by the day. The fact that they constantly refuse to charge anything less than retail price means than many heavy book buyers are forced to shop online to get better sales.


This is unfortunately true. Other retailers that sell books, like Walmart, Amazon, or even Best Buy can afford to charge below MSRP because they have other high profit items to make up the difference. Also, books and DVDs are often sold at a loss to draw traffic. Most new release DVDs and Blurays for instance, are sold from $1-2 under cost at both Best Buy and Walmart, simply to pull in people.

When you're primary, and almost only business is books, you have to squeeze more profit out of them. This is also why FYE/Suncoast is failing in the DVD and CD market. They already sell items with low margins and simply can't compete on price with the Walmarts and Amazons of the world.
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stuckinfresno



Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 223
Location: Fresno, CA
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:38 am Reply with quote
everapril wrote:
The point is: I want to buy that book. I would pay them real, American currency for it. I just refuse to spend quite so much on it. Every time I walk out of there, that was a potential sale. The Synaptic Self remains on the shelf (the one that's to the right of the entrance against the wall of the children's section) becoming more obsolete, taking up space that B&N could have filled with a Dan Brown book and recouped whatever they'd have lost by cutting me a deal.

This is just one reason brick & mortar bookstores are failing.


Actually I can add more. While I can say I spent about $150 at BN and about $60 at Borders (due to their closing sale), I spent about $300 to $400 online. The main reason is that online books are not plagued by the same problems that come with brick and mortar stores. I don't have to worry about: whether I can get the security tag off the page without ripping/damaging it, no one has left sticky residue over the cover and pages, no has handle the book in such a way that it is no longer new - it can only be classified as acceptable, and no one has opened the shrink wrap to remove any of the bonuses that sometimes comes with books. These are the main four reasons I shop online.

Another reason is that brick and mortar (at least in my area) are VERY slow to get new books. I can get the next volume in my series weeks in advance over a brick and mortar story. The really strange thing here is that I can get new volumes in advance using BN online over their stores - how weird is that?

Oh and for those interested here is my story on book bonuses: I was at Barnes and Noble and saw that these girls were trolling in the manga section. I was looking on the other side of the shelves (A-F) and they were on the other side (G-Z). When I came around the shelves to continue looking, they booked it out of there quick. My first thought was strange. But I continued my shopping. When I got down to the T-Z section I noticed that the Yu-Gi-Oh Gx books were unshelved.

Upon further inspection, the books must have been shrink wrapped because they came with a card. After all it was promoted on the book and when I flipped to the back the packet that the card came was ripped out. Mad Now I remember my Yu-Gi-Oh days, I still have some Yugi cards, but seriously? You ripped off the store for two copies of a Yu-Gi-Oh card? First of all how lame, second what kind of person is so pathetic that they steal a card to (presumably) sell online. They could have just gone to the Borders sale and got it legit and cheap.

Back on topic, I showed the books to a BN employee who was equally irritated. He told me BN loses about $60 a day due to book vandalism; sometimes more and sometimes less. Think about that. It comes to about $1,800 a month or about $21,900 a year. Now BN has to off-set that with sales and purchasing new books to sell. I can see why bookstores have it rough.

BTW, I hate all e-book devices they are a sign of bad, bad things. A booklover (meaning all types of books) cannot enjoy a book on a tiny electronic screen that is bad for the eyes. It has to be lovely paper.

Many thanks to everyone who read the ridiculously long post. Razz
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everapril



Joined: 24 Apr 2009
Posts: 112
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 3:06 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
The main reason is that online books are not plagued by the same problems that come with brick and mortar stores. I don't have to worry about: whether I can get the security tag off the page without ripping/damaging it, no one has left sticky residue over the cover and pages, no has handle the book in such a way that it is no longer new - it can only be classified as acceptable, and no one has opened the shrink wrap to remove any of the bonuses that sometimes comes with books.


I absolutely agree! Before I moved I had access to a local hobby shop that totally got it and kept their merchandise in primo condition. So much of my fandom is tied up in collecting, I won't spend money on copies of graphic novels that are damaged (I've only seen a handful of them, and then only at Border's and Border's Express). spoiler[Most of the time, I've already read scanslations of the comic I'm buying,] I want it to fill my OCD/nerd impulse to collect.

Chain bookstores do a lot of good in getting manga out to a wider audience (especially those venerable youg 'uns!) But sometimes they're in a little over their head when it comes to specialty markets like this.

The hobby store I mentioned earlier somehow (magic?) keeps their shelves stocked with complete series plus multiple copies of the latest releases. Hoo boy. I'd had purchased the first three volumes of Gravitation at Border's, walked in their store to see the complete 12-volume set right there in front of me and it was a done deal. That doesn't happen when I'm browsing B&N or Border's who rarely have the volume I'm up to in any given series.[/quote]
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stuckinfresno



Joined: 21 Aug 2007
Posts: 223
Location: Fresno, CA
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 7:39 pm Reply with quote
[quote="everapril"]Before I moved I had access to a local hobby shop that totally got it and kept their merchandise in primo condition. So much of my fandom is tied up in collecting, I won't spend money on copies of graphic novels that are damaged (I've only seen a handful of them, and then only at Border's and Border's Express). I want it to fill my OCD/nerd impulse to collect.
[quote]

Well you certainly have me envious. I wish there was a hobby store like that in my town. The closest thing I have are places like animecornerstore and justmanga. All online of course. But I sometimes wonder if profits have increased since I discovered justmanga. I give them all my spending money! Still, I miss the joy of discovering an unexpected series and making that impluse buy.

As for OCD - I can completely understand I collect in the same manner. I proudly brag that I can spot a bent/torn/damaged page just by reviewing giving the book a slow once over. I'm not 100% but pretty close.
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Celes



Joined: 11 Jan 2007
Posts: 223
Location: Madison, WI
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:31 pm Reply with quote
Well, that's too bad, really. I probably spend about $1000 a year between Borders and B&N (more business goes to Borders though), and only maybe a couple hundred online. And yep, most of that is manga. I do love reading all kinds of books but I tend to go to the library for super mainstream fiction releases.

But I've noticed here that our Borders (we have 2) have been slower and slower in getting new manga, even the "good" Borders that usually gets the more obscure releases. B&N is usually still pretty good about getting new releases before the street date, but they definitely carry a lot less titles (compared to Borders, anyway).

Borders here will usually only get 1 copy of the newest volume of a series, unless it is Naruto or Bleach or something crazy-popular. I suspect they only get the 1 volume because I bought the only previous one, so they probably figure at least one person will buy the new one.

But then, when I try to take advantage of Border's ship-to-store for free program, it takes SOOOO long. I will track my package and it will be delivered on say, a Saturday, and they won't call me until Thursday. I could get free shipping on Amazon and get my book quicker. It's those things that are tempting me away from the brick and mortar stores, although I really do my best to support them. I don't want to lose any of my Borders or B&Ns, so I try to limit my online shopping to things I can get really deeply discounted, like expensive-as-heck PS3, Xbox 360, and Wii games.
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