Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Mushoku Tensei: Jobless Reincarnation II
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Gamen
Posts: 240 |
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Norm is probably the wrong word. Because as you say it does seem to be the norm, at least among common folk. More like, only one religion preaches and "enforces" it. Everywhere else polygamy is "allowed" because they don't seem to actually have any legal recognition for the practice of marriage, so there's neither legal nor religious pressure against it, but it's still not anything but unusual. Presumably for gender ratio/emotional/economic reasons. I mean, I'd guess that by the same token, divorce is literally just walking out the door with everything you can pack up and take back to your parent's and declaring you're not married anymore... |
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Jabootu
Posts: 158 |
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Fair, which is why I wish they had been more explicit about the fact that Paul had taken a second wife. And they don't say monogamy isn't the norm, they say it isn't the norm for followers of one (albiet apparently the biggest human) religion. And even then you can buck the norm, at least if you're minor nobility. Morever, I don't think it's outrageous that, just as in this world when such cultures held sway, that the men who ended up taking several wives were the rich and powerful. Roxy's parents live in a small one room house; they might not be rich enough to support more than one wife and possibly more children. Paul was the lord of a (minor) territory, and the second wife he took was already in the house. Rudy undoubtedly has earned enough through this adventuring that he can afford it too. After all, he bought a house, and is currently paying not only for himself and Sylphy (who again presumably was earning money while acting as a bodyguard for the Princess), but also for Lilia and Aisha (and, I'm assuming, Norn?). If he takes Roxy as a bride, again, she most probably will not be in permanent residence and when she isn't, she'll be earning her own money. However, I do agree with you that this aspect could have been better established in the anime. Even a production on this scale won't get everything right, I guess. Last edited by Jabootu on Mon Jun 24, 2024 3:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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jmckenna15
Posts: 132 |
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Apparently this is a Hot Take for some reason but -- I actually liked the ED arc on the whole. The writing mined a lot out of something that could have turned juvenile very quickly in worse hands. It served as a good stand-in for Rudeus' fear of intimacy post-Eris, and ties it to what was his most intimate encounter to date. It therefore only made sense that he would be cured of it once he was able to realize that somebody he loves wasn't going to leave him. It wasn't that he had sex with Sylphy that cured him, it was that she was still there for him the next morning that cured him. I can understand some of the critiques regarding the aphrodisiac -- it would have been fine if that wasn't there especially since he was "recovering" already -- and it was a long arc during a particularly slow cour. Overall though I was very impressed with seeing how Rudeus navigated that point his life, warts and all, and how he emerged from it a better, less selfish individual. There's a reason why the Red Spot has as coveted a status to him as Roxy's underwear. Not for sexual gratification, but because both represent two life-changing moments in his life and inform his actions from that point. |
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jmckenna15
Posts: 132 |
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I try to avoid LN reader comments because I want to judge the anime purely on its own merits but I wonder if this is something that is discussed in the LN that probably should have gotten into the anime in some form before this episode to make the case for polygamy seem more legitimate. So far the only example we have of it as a success is from Paul, who got there because he got caught banging the maid and narrowly avoided a divorce. Not the best endorsement even if it might be a province of a specific (though likely dominant) religion in this world. |
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Jabootu
Posts: 158 |
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I assume you're right to some extent, but a lot of other people loved the arc too. I know several reviewers I follow on YouTube who all loved it. I think people get too locked into the idea that a show has to stay the whole thing all the way through. That's often the case (we don't need gritty battle episodes of K-On!), but certainly not here. In this case, the anime is supposedly intending to adapt all 26 novels detailing Rudy from cradle to grave. No one's life doesn't have stages. Rudy grow up and had a bucolic childhood. Then he was torn away from that home and sent to tutor Eris. Then they were dislocated to the Demon Continent and spent several years surviving as they traveled to a port to return home. Then Eris left Rudy in shambles, deep in despair and basically looking to get killed. Then he went to the academy, made friends, studied and enhanced his magic, married his childhood friend and built what looked to be a peaceful home life. Now this exact phase of his life seems to be coming to an end. This point I'm making is that the ED plot was essential because it was another phase of Rudy's life that was completely different from his other stages of life. I get that people thought the school stuff was boring, but we're spending his whole life with this guy and it's essential we see him in different situations. He's not a battle junkie and it's not like he'd always be looking for danger or whatnot. I will admit I love slice of life, so I may have embraced this stuff more readily than most, but I think in the long run this chapter of his life will be as essential as all the other ones we've shared with him so far. Last edited by Jabootu on Mon Jun 24, 2024 5:40 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Gamen
Posts: 240 |
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Honestly, not that I can recall, but I haven't read the volumes from the last year and a half. However other mentions in the anime are that Pilemon Notos Greyrat was offering to take Eris as a concubine, and Lord Grabel's mother is also a concubine. |
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jmckenna15
Posts: 132 |
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I do remember that from Season 1 but I didn't register that necessarily as polygamy because of the connotation of "concubine" vs. "wife" which is established in this cour.
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Gamen
Posts: 240 |
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In this context, taking things step-by-step in the proper order. E.g. courting/dating for a few months while you learning about each other and what each of you wants while you both have separate support networks and homes and aren't under any pressure to commit, then moving in together/marriage, then starting a family.... I don't mean this as specific instructions, just the general concept of slow and steady, feeling each other out and coming to a common understanding/agreement. That is, the other extreme from rescue romances, one night stands, taking advantage of vulnerable moments, adultery, shotgun/vegas weddings, etc. |
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maximilianjenus
Posts: 2878 |
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About polygamy, the anime skipped some bits an sid not focus on other bits, I will use a spiker tag but it's either stuff passingly mentioned by the anime, skipped by the anime or not plot relevant in the future ( I will strip off anything relevant to the plot)
So, polygamy ia something that not everybody can economically afford it and not everybody emotionally needs/wants it, spoiler[ Paul in the village was relatively well off, so he could afford it, hell it was.teates before as.he was Lilia's only source of income. Skipped and future material, village chefs are at the level they can afford it , as well as minor nobles , skipped material, like eris father, being a major, he specifically asks Ghislaine and ghislaine was mostly.ok with it, but then ghislaine owes her life to eris, likes eris a lot so she felt bad about it and denied.] Emotionally, you need multiple people to agree , funny thing, be cause of reasons this world has got better gender equality than ours so (future spoilers)spoiler[Ariel ha got her.harem, just like her dad did,] So this Inches closer.to polyamory actually, the anime skipped a sub arc during the desert travel where Elinalise and rudeus accompany some merchantsspoiler[natives from begarito normally practice polyamory, they form small "tribes" and they all take care of the kids] But yeah , saying that polygamy is the norm does not quite cur it because only few people can afford it and of those even less are interested. *About gender equality ,because this world has mana, there is no strength difference between males and females, so the only practical difference is Getting pregnant . The statues in the ruins part of the Sarah arc actually do show that adult kishirika is taller and stronger than BADigadi. |
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Thundercracker
 Posts: 37 |
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"Who were the other members of the party that were protecting Zenith and Lilia on the return trip (a rogue and a mage, I think)? Are they new hires, or were they always there in the background with Lilia?"
Vierra and Shierra. The girls Paul and his group saved during the time he was looking for his family. |
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jdnation
Posts: 2027 |
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The polygamous aspect of the show was one of the things spoiled for me. I'm not a fan of this aspect, and most harem stuff usually ends with a commitment to one girl. Nonetheless, I wanted to see how it would go.
Historical polygamy, in our world, was also a thing, though only a few practiced it, mainly because most common men could not afford looking after more than one wife/large family or the dowries and costs associated with obtaining a wife. So only the wealthy and well off could, and even then, such marriages wer political in nature, as if only lust were involved, a concubine would do. Also, if the wife could not produce children, or a male heir, it necessitated another wife. So it was complex stuff. Other times, if a married man took another woman's virginity or got her pregnant, society forced him to do the honorable thing and look after her as his wife, as nobody else would take her, and the child is his responsibility. This was the right thing to do in Paul's case. In Rudeus' it doesn't feel justified to take Roxy. Sure, we may pity him for being seduced in a moment of weakness, and Roxy is also at fault. But there is no pressing need to see why this should be concluded in a marriage. And while feelings are involved, Rudy's obsession with his loli goddess has always been creepy and associated with his past immaturity, and Roxy pretty much just fell for Rudy a few days ago, and it's still somewhat uncomfortable considering the last yime she knew him was within an adult/child relationship. There hasn't been much development here for the audience to really buy into this relationship, jumping from the running gag of a panty obsession. If anyone else does have a better claim to be Rudy's 2nd wife, it's Eris. Rudy never cheated on Sylphie for Eris, and if he took her for responsibility's sake, Sylphie could sympathize with those circumstances. Roxy, however? I'm not feeling this one. Maybe they don't commit to this yet, and break it off until future developments make it more acceptable, which I'd respect a lot if it did. But right now, all of it feels like an unnecessarily bad idea. |
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getchman
 He started itPosts: 9127 Location: Bedford, NH |
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Also, one of those girls was the one in a chainmail bikini whom Rudy assumed Paul was having an affair with back when the two of them reunited
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MFrontier
Posts: 11962 |
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Well, that happened!
I really got the sense that Rudy finally realized Paul was his father after he died saving him so it was nice to see him put it into words even if makes the loss feel more palpable, especially when he's basically lost Zenith mentally so both his parents are gone now. And it just reminds him of how he failed his last set of parents. Y'know Roxy showing up to comfort Rudy and closing the door when he basically tells her to leave reminded me a lot of Mary Jane Watson being there for Peter Parker after Gwen Stacy's death. Minus the sex. On the one hand, I totally get that Roxy was in love with Rudy and wanted to be there for him when he was in a really dark place, just like she was when he was a kid. I can see why Elinalise and Geese thought he'd get over it but we (and Roxy) knew better. So he probably needed someone there for him in that moment. But the fact that Roxy was obviously after sex even though she at that point knew full well he was married with a child on the way and that Rudy was really emotionally vulnerable...it's just not a good look. Like, she didn't need to sleep with him, but just like Lilia she made her move on a married man even thinking it would just be her only moment to be with him...and she ends up becoming his second wife. Honestly I always thought of Roxy as more wholesome and level-headed (which I guess she was when she expected the affair to end when they got back) so it was really unexpected for me. But I guess one of her first scenes was masturbating to Paul and Zenith getting it on so maybe I shouldn't be so surprised. Speaking of Lilia, she really is doubling down on being a maid and fulfilling her duty to her surviving mistress even if Zenith has lost her memories. She probably feels she owes it to her and Paul in that respect. And Lilia is the closest thing Rudy has to a parental figure now and she plainly tells him that he has his own family to worry about...not that it stopped him from sleeping with another woman. On paper I'm not against Rudy having a legitimate Harem and compared to other depictions of it in a fantasy setting this feels more natural and built-up...I can even accept he has feelings for Roxy. But he still cheated on Sylphie and it feels like going the polygamy route is avoiding the consequences for that, even if it's also taking responsibility for his feelings for Roxy. But at least he admits it makes him as scumbag. But I guess Rudy is living up to his fathers' memory by getting seduced by another woman while his wife is pregnant and then marrying the second girl. And maybe Zenith grew to be happy with the situation. But it was a really weird situation nevertheless. I love how Elinalise made like a token mention of monogamy because of Cliff but basically doubled-down on Rudy marrying Roxy even if it meant her granddaughter would have to contend with a second wife. Like I get she's known Roxy longer but it's just funny knowing it's Sylphie's grandmother. But it also is advice I can believe Elinalise would give, and it's probably what Paul would've told Rudy (like he did with the two swords line). I expect Sylphie will accept this because she cares about Rudy too much to refuse and maybe she'll even appreciate that Roxy was there for him when she wasn't...but I hope she's initially upset about it. Because at the end of the day she was worried about him and carrying his child and he hooked up with some other girl. Norn is probably going to have the most volatile reaction. I mean, she lost her dad who was her entire world, her mom is effectively a vegetable, and her brother brought home another wife after she'd seen how devoted he was to Sylphie. I just can't see her taking this well even knowing her father did the same thing. |
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ScruffyKiwi
 Posts: 689 Location: New Zealand |
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We’re not told that monogamy is not the norm. We’re told that polygamy is also socially acceptable. There is a difference! A stable polygamous relationship is inherently more difficult as you have more than two people in the relationship, which requires ALOT more communication. |
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MFrontier
Posts: 11962 |
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I'm kind of curious if there will be growing pains between Rudy, Sylphie, and Roxy though they kind of breezed past it with Paul, Zenith, and Lilia so I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same.
(Would it be too far for Rudy to immediately suggest a threesome...) |
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