Forum - View topicBest Supporting Character Tournament: Post-Mortem
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Bluebeard
 Posts: 267 Location: Massachusetts |
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Group C-17
Kisuke Urahara, Bleach vs. Akemi, SaiKano Winner: Kisuke Urahara Well thanks everyone, you've all managed to vote in an entire round of characters I am totally unfamiliar with so here's all I've got. I hate Bleach. But after reading the character descriptions it seems like Kisuke is a character I'd probably like, which says a lot. And voting for him probably won't throw the voting numbers in this particular matchup into any particular disorder so my ignorance won't cause any long term damage. Group C-18 Joun the Beekeeper, The Beast Player Erin vs. Fool, Kaleido Star Winner: Fool l Group C-19 Straight Cougar, sCRYed vs. Doug, Kurau Phantom Memory Winner: Doug Group C-20 Myoga, Inuyasha vs. Tomoyo Daidouji, Cardcaptor Sakura Winner: Tomoyo Group C-21 Sakae Jinnouchi, Summer Wars vs. Maestro Stresemann, Nodame Cantible Winner; Maestro Stresemann Group C-22 Hiko Seijiro, Ruroni Kenshin vs. Rakushun, The Twelve Kingdoms Winner: Rakushun Group C-23 Gilliam II, Outlaw Star vs. Mao, Darker Than Black franchise Winner: Mao Group C-24 Kamaji, Spirited Away vs. Wakaba Tsukishima, Cross Game Winner: Wakaba Last edited by Bluebeard on Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:09 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Ggultra2764
 Subscriber Posts: 3966 Location: New York state. |
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Love for the character isn't the only thing that has to do with my choice of voting for Tomoyo and I'm quite surprised at the large number of votes Myoga's getting as I thought that this would have been a blowout match for Tomoyo and didn't think things would be tightly contested until at least the Fourth Round. What makes Tomoyo unique for me is that for a girl her age, she shows a great amount of insight and maturity. Sure, her obsession for Sakura's a bit on the creepy side for some folks (not for me as CCS kept the content of the questionable relationships it set up subtle and light-hearted). But she is quick to realize the thoughts of those around her, sets aside her personal feelings for Sakura to make her happy and is talented with singing, costume designs and video editing. Not only does she give advice to Syaoran over how to confront his feelings for Sakura later in the series, spoiler[she also provides comfort to a distraught Meiling when the girl realizes her crush has fallen for Sakura.] And even with her feelings for Sakura, Tomoyo never tries to hinder the developments of the relationship developments that her best friend undergoes with her crush, Yukito and later Syaoran. My issue with Myoga is that he lacks the depth and dimension that Tomoyo has. He shows up in many instances throughout Inuyasha to conveniently provide sagely advice to Inuyasha, shows his cowardice and/or being a Butt Monkey constantly getting swatted at when bloodsucking. There are no other aspects to his character beyond these traits and it reeks of staleness and archetype for me while Tomoyo has enough to her character which got me attached to her throughout Card Captor Sakura's run. |
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farichada
 Posts: 303 Location: Wisconsin, USA |
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I agree that her character is creepy and disturbing especially if you consider her age, but I completely disagree that she is mature. Since when are one-sided creepy crushes mature? Also I never feel she truly puts her feelings to the side. Lastly, the roles that you mention in the last sentence at least to me seem like fluff even though I agree that Tomoyo plays a part in those roles. Should we really be voting for characters that devote so much of their time to fluff roles? Seriously, she is overrated, but I suppose otaku love dem lolis, but hopefully it's in a way that's PG and not creepy. Sadly, I think Tomoyo gets so many votes because she is an effective pandering character. Who doesn't want a loli that secretly loves another little girl? I'm not even a dude and I can see the appeal in that. I also disagree that the flea is nearly as stale as you argue; you are simply just overgeneralizing the character. Ironically enough many of your arguments against Myoga can be applied to Tomoyo. |
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Ggultra2764
Subscriber Posts: 3966 Location: New York state. |
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It's a thing called character development. Her presence helps things progress in the relationships that her close friends are involved in. Beyond helping Inuyasha get the Tetsusaiga, Myoga only seems to pop up whenever the series is in need of going into another direction as his presence is lessened once Naraku enters the picture while Tomoyo has a constant presence throughout CCS without taking too much time away from Sakura's developments.
Overgeneralize? I've seen all of CCS, as well as watch many of the episodes of Inuyasha's first series and the later chapters of the manga after the show's completion. Don't go saying my understanding of the show is limited, especially in regards to Myoga's character. You have your thoughts, I have mine. Just don't be ignorant and accuse me of being general with my thoughts regarding the characters when I've had heavy exposure to both the titles they originate from, much as I want to erase any memory of what I now detest. 
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18458 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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People are getting a little testy here in the past couple of posts and need to tone things down. Both of you, farichada and Ggultra2764, are flirting with going over the line. (Please, let's not bring the loli issue into these discussions; it's a real stretch to say it's playing a factor here.)
And concerning the subject at the center of the debate: I am, admittedly, vastly more familiar with Inuyasha than I am with CCS, but Myoga's value shouldn't be underestimated. He may not be developed very extensively, but his role as a regular source of sage advice and comic relief has a definite impact on his series. I didn't expect him to go far, but I am happy to see him at least challenging a character so heavily-supported in the nomination round. On the flip side, I find it quite interesting that Hiko Sejiro has made such a run of votes of late after being completely shut out early. He still has much too much of a deficit to have any chance of winning (barring a big run of vote changes, which I see as very unlikely since no one has indicated that they're wavering on that match-up), but it's an odd phenomenon. (And no, Rakashun is not being oversold as a supporting character. He's winning because of the strength of his impact and characterization. You don't get to reshape the lives of two entirely different lead characters from very different situations and not deserve recognition for it.) On an official front, matches C-18, C-19, and C-20 are still close enough to be in play at this point. The trailers in each match (Joun, Straight Cougar, and Myoga) each are still close enough to conceivably get enough votes to catch up, and a single vote change in any of those matches could change the outcome. |
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Aylinn
 Posts: 1684 |
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You exaggerate here, I’m woman, I don’t vote for her because I want a loli. |
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TatsuGero23
 Posts: 1277 Location: Sniper Island, USA (It's in your heart!) |
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Yeah the whole loli claim seems a bit much to me. Like I said, choosing between the two was very difficult since they both are strong competitors in their respected fields or character types. Also in defenses of Tomoyo, I would say she is very mature for her age and not just because she's in love. She's very keen on the emotions of others and unlike a child, very unselfish except for things that make her go all "moe" like having Sakura put on costumes or doing poses. She's also well aware of the nature of her love and the fact that Sakura will probably never recipricate her feelings at the same level. She's also very caring on an almost motherly level where she again thinks of others before herself.
But I still give my vote to Myoga. Although his character is much more traditional compared to Tomoya, it's not nesscarily a negative. Myoga is a classic cowardly, comedic type but offers the nesscary exposition for the series as well as insight to the main cast. Despite his size and cowardly nature, at times he'll still endure great danger and shows sincere concern for Inuyasha and friends. And on a more frequent basics; something that's often much rarer for the character type. |
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nightjuan
 Posts: 1473 |
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Group C-17
Kisuke Urahara, Bleach vs. Akemi, SaiKano Voting for: Akemi Kisuke seems to be getting a lot of support, which might well be warranted in spite of my total ignorance of all things Bleach, but as far as Akemi from SaiKano is concerned...I don't think she should go down without a fight here. In my opinion, she was probably one of the most memorable characters in a show that admittedly relies on a lot of melodrama to begin with. If nothing else, it's still worth acknowledging that she did leave a lasting impression. Group C-18 Joun the Beekeeper, The Beast Player Erin vs. Fool, Kaleido Star Voting for: Fool Group C-19 Straight Cougar, sCRYed vs. Doug, Kurau Phantom Memory Voting for: Straight Cougar I've previously discussed why Straight Cougar gets my support in greater detail, so let's talk about the opposition. Doug doesn't sound like too bad of a character on paper but the distinct lack of additional arguments makes what little enthusiasm there is for him rather telling. His importance might be, for all I know, significant enough to outdo Cougar in that respect but -without having seen Kurau yet- is this enough to make him actually interesting? So far, it doesn't sound too likely. Group C-20 Myoga, Inuyasha vs. Tomoyo Daidouji, Cardcaptor Sakura Voting: Tomoyo I feel this one could go either way, really, but Ggultra2764 has made some fair points about Tomoyo. When in doubt, I'm far more likely to endorse a character with a certain amount of emotional range and dynamism. Nothing against Myoga in particular. Group C-21 Sakae Jinnouchi, Summer Wars vs. Maestro Stresemann, Nodame Cantible Voting for: Maestro Stresemann Group C-22 Hiko Seijiro, Ruroni Kenshin vs. Rakushun, The Twelve Kingdoms Voting for: Rakushun In the end, Hiko's presence is important but relatively limited and he honestly lacks any real form of character development. Group C-23 Gilliam II, Outlaw Star vs. Mao, Darker Than Black franchise Voting for: Mao Group C-24 Kamaji, Spirited Away vs. Wakaba Tsukishima, Cross Game Voting for: Wakaba Tsukishima Wakaba continues to be my default choice here, at least in the absence of a strong contender. Cross Game would have a very different feel if it weren't for her, to put it one way, considering how her memory looms over the main characters providing both motivation and a sense of melancholy. |
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The Naked Beast
 Posts: 1028 Location: A Blue Planet |
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Even though I said I would not vote at the last minute, here I go doing it anyway. For future rounds, I will try my best to vote as soon as I can.
Group C-17 Kisuke Urahara, Bleach vs. Akemi, SaiKano My vote goes to: Kisuke Urahara. Group C-18 Joun the Beekeeper, The Beast Player Erin vs. Fool, Kaleido Star My vote goes to: Fool. Group C-19 Straight Cougar, sCRYed vs. Doug, Kurau Phantom Memory My vote goes to: Doug. Group C-20 Myoga, Inuyasha vs. Tomoyo Daidouji, Cardcaptor Sakura My vote goes to: Tomoyo Daidouji. Group C-21 Sakae Jinnouchi, Summer Wars vs. Maestro Stresemann, Nodame Cantible Despite Sakae's limited screen time, she still provided a major role on averting a major world and family crisis in the Summer Wars movie. Her spoiler[death served as the catalyst for the antagonist to reconsider their actions. Even in death, she still provided support to her family through her will. She encourages her family to keep going on and work together as a family to save the world.] One of her greatest and underrated contributions to the film is the fact that she taught the entire Jinnouchi clan how to play various Hanafuda card games. In fact, the love interest, a member of the Jinnouchi clan, defeats the virtual antagonist because of this. It is because of this great contribution that I wholeheartedly give my support for Sakae. My vote goes to: Sakae Jinnouchi. Group C-22 Hiko Seijiro, Ruroni Kenshin vs. Rakushun, The Twelve Kingdoms My vote goes to: Rakushun. Group C-23 Gilliam II, Outlaw Star vs. Mao, Darker Than Black franchise My vote goes to: Mao. Group C-24 Kamaji, Spirited Away vs. Wakaba Tsukishima, Cross Game My vote goes to: Wakaba Tsukishima. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18458 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Round 2 Group C is now closed.
With 23 votes in, the results: C-17: Kisuke Urahara over Akemi 17-6. C-18: Fool over Joun the Beekeeper 14-9 C-19: Doug edges out Straight Cougar 13-10 C-20: Tomoyo Daidouji squishes Myoga 14-9. C-21: Maestro Stresemann out-direct Sakae Jinnnouchi 17-6. C-22: Rakashun def. Hiko Seijirio 17-6. C-23: Mao's cattiness is too much for Gilliam II, 20-3. C-24: Wakaba Tsukishima out-charms Kamaji 17-6. Unlike in the previous two groups, none of these matches was really in question going into the final two votes. That Wakaba had such a strong showing is a minor surprise to me considering the immense difference between her series and her opponent's movie (something like a 29-1 ratio based on number of ANN rankings), though a pleasing one. I didn't think enough people had seen that series for her to get much momentum, but now I can easily see her facing off against the Maestro/Rakashun winner (won't that be a hotly-contested match next round!) in the the fourth round. Next round should be up shortly. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18458 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Round 2 Group D is now closed.
Results can be found here. Last round this group had the highest number of close matches. Will we see a repeat of that here? I kinda doubt it, but let's see what might happen: Group D-17 Kuu, Haibane Renmei vs. Walter C. Dornez, Hellsing franchise Group D-18 Osono, Kiki’s Delivery Service vs. Jiriya, Naruto franchise Group D-19 Meme Oshino, Bakemonogatari vs. Tanda, Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit Group D-20 Euphemia li Brittania, Code Geass vs. Kaname Chidori, Koi Kaze Group D-21 Nagi, Time of Eve vs. Ami Kawashima, Toradora! Group D-22 Osamu Akaishi, Cross Game vs. Pedro, Excel Saga Group D-23 Akio Furukawa, Clannad franchise vs. Miwako Sakurada, Paradise Kiss Group D-24 Gai Daigoji/Jiro Yamada, Martian Successor Nadesico vs. Wizardmon, Digimon franchise Last edited by Key on Tue Jun 15, 2010 12:12 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Dorcas_Aurelia
 Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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And thanks to that, I already have the mini-game scores ready to go. In general, bad news for anyone who isn't Olliff (and to a lesser extent, Mow). Olliff (88) now has a 7 point lead over Key and Mow (81), who are tied in second. Ggultra (78) is another three points behind them in fourth, and JO (76) is two points further back in fifth. Sixth through seventeenth place range in score from 71 to 58. Overall mini-game accuracy this round was slightly better than last week (which is more significant since there were no ties this time). Urahara and Tomoyo didn't have quite as overwhelming landslide victories as would have been guessed from the predictions, but most everything else was fairly close to what people thought. |
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LydiaDianne
 Posts: 5634 Location: Southern California |
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Group D-17
Walter C. Dornez, Hellsing franchise Because I have a soft-spot for “retired” badasses. Group D-18 Jiriya, Naruto franchise Group D-19 Tanda, Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit Tanda is still my hands down, no questions asked choice. He played such a big part…being the quiet shoulder for Balsa to lean on and the father figure that Chagum really needed. Group D-20 Euphemia li Brittania, Code Geass Group D-21 Ami Kawashima, Toradora! Group D-22 Osamu Akaishi, Cross Game Group D-23 Akio Furukawa, Clannad franchise Group D-24 Gai Daigoji/Jiro Yamada, Martian Successor Nadesico Gai is one of those very rare characters who are only seen in a very few episodes but make a huge impact on the rest of the cast and without his painful contribution, the story. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18458 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Group D-17
Kuu, Haibane Renmei vs. Walter C. Dornez, Hellsing franchise I have not seen HR and Walter is too cool a character to be deserving of the lopsided defeat that is likely coming his way here, so he gets my part-sympathy, part-full-support vote here. Group D-18 Osono, Kiki’s Delivery Service vs. Jiriya, Naruto franchise This is a match-up of two characters who just barely survived into this round against stiff competition. Based on the Guide write-ups, Osono seems like she may be a bit more consistently present, and a stronger direct influence on the heroine, than Jiriya is towards Naruto. Group D-19 Meme Oshino, Bakemonogatari vs. Tanda, Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit Easiest pick of the group for me. Tanda may be a bit on the bland side, but he is perhaps the ideal example of what it means to be a supporting character. His presence is crucial for the well-being of Balsa and others, he plays key assist roles in the main plot in the late stages, and he represents a love interest-wannabe attitude which adds an extra dimension to the character development. Meme has color, but not enough of it to overcome Tanda's substantive advantages. Group D-20 Euphemia li Brittania, Code Geass vs. Kaname Chidori, Koi Kaze I'll be curious to see how this one shakes out, as both sides here will probably have their ardent supporters. Having seen both series in their entirety, I have to side with Kaname here. Euphemia was unquestionably one of the most likable characters in the whole franchise, and certainly had a strong impact on the series, but Kaname is a more credible character who functions well as the platonic friend and tries to stop what she sees developing. She also represents the audience's voice in trying to emphasize exactly how wrong a direction things are going. Group D-21 Nagi, Time of Eve vs. Ami Kawashima, Toradora! Nagi may have merits but is outclassed here. Ami is a fresh character with a lot of depth and subtlety of action, one whose insightful observations can send other characters' emotions (and with them plot threads) spinning. She turns what would otherwise be just a good series into a great one. Group D-22 Osamu Akaishi, Cross Game vs. Pedro, Excel Saga This is the hardest match-up of the group for me, as both are highly deserving. On the one hand you have the most important character in CG after the two leads, the young man who transforms himself from his first appearances into something more respectable and makes sure that Ko (the lead male protagonist) stays on the path towards baseball greatness. He is a neat character who shines in his dedication and avoids falling into the typical tough-guy stereotypes. On the other hand is the character whose constant misfortune is arguably the best running gag in a comedy series replete with them. This is actually a closer match-up than this comparison might make it seem, as Pedro is really good in the role he fills, but I have to give the edge to Akaishi here. I won't begrudge Pedro his votes, however! Group D-23 Akio Furukawa, Clannad franchise vs. Miwako Sakurada, Paradise Kiss No question for me here, either. Akio is arguably the most interesting and entertaining character in the franchise as well as serving several key supportive functions throughout both series. In other words, he has color as well a quantitative merits. Miwako can't match that. Group D-24 Gai Daigoji/Jiro Yamada, Martian Successor Nadesico vs. Wizardmon, Digimon franchise For the lingering impact he had on MSN, and the way his character defined the essence of his series, Gai still gets my vote for now. |
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Ggultra2764
Subscriber Posts: 3966 Location: New York state. |
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Match D-17: Kuu (Haibane Renmei)
It's gonna take a character with large enough impact in shaking up the resolves of their title's major characters to be of any threat to Kuu. Match D-18: Jiraiya (Naruto franchise) Match D-19: Meme Oshino (Bakemonogatari) The expert on spiritual phenomena is a constant source of information to Araragi with a nice tropical shirt and witty dialogue about dealing with "Tsundere-chan" to boot. 
Match D-20: Euphemia li Britannia (Code Geass) Much as I like Kaname's character, the events surrounding Euphemia have a much larger impact on the actions of the more prominent characters in the Code Geass franchise. Match D-21: Ami Kawashima (Toradora) The last round I plan to vote for Toradora's two-faced model as her status as a borderline main character will be her downfall against her opponent in the next round. Match D-22: Osamu Akaishi (Cross Game) Match D-23: Miwako Sakurada (Paradise Kiss) Match D-24: Wizardmon (Digimon franchise) Mostly a spite vote against Gai since I still don't understand the appeal of his character. |
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