Forum - View topicCel anime or digital anime?
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dpgc4life
Posts: 31 |
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I grow up in the 90's and the newer digital anime seems lackluster in the department of shadow details and namely the color black always seems off.
If you want to know i mean go to youtube and look for stardust memory OP 1,2 in HD and 08 MS OP 1,2 in HD, then take a look at SEED/Destiny or OO OP in HD, the color is more vibrant and the motion is very smooth. Hell even look at the remaster Gundam Z in HD, how can anime looks so good from 25 years ago I read that Cel anime is very expensive to produce, it is like burning money with fire, anyone has their opinion on Cel vs digital anime. I really think cel anime is underappreciated nowadays because of vhs/dvd source, remaster it in HD, it just looks as good or better than noadays anime. |
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Mushi-Man
 Posts: 1537 Location: KCMO |
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The immortal Cel vs Digital debate is much like the Sub vs Dub debate. There are allot of passionate people about this and I have no idea why. Both get the job done with relatively the same end result. I just don't see why people insist on drawing battle lines of favoritism over old and new, sub and dub, and cel and digital. Either way you cut it you still have your final product; an anime which is either good or bad on it's own merit, not how or when it was made. I'm not saying that it's wrong of you to take sides, just that I don't subscribe to the theory that one is better than the other. In my opinion both have their fair share of quality and crap products. Also I think both styles look just fine, I can't see any real damage that has come from the invention of digital animation. I guess it simply comes down to personal tastes.
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Flame-G102
 Posts: 104 |
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I think its the graininess of 90's cell anime's that has a certain appeal to it.
Nothing wrong with Digital though. |
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knucklechuckle
Posts: 12 |
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No you are all wrong. New digital anime is better by far. It looks crisper and cleaner and also more consistent
People who pine for older animation are just trying to sound weathered and kooky. [Mod Edit: Just saying "you are wrong" is a poor way to go about a debate, particularly when the subject matter is entirely subjective. Please try to do a bit more than just "you're wrong, this is better" in future discussions. - Keonyn] |
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Kruszer
 Posts: 7994 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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There is no difference, there's good and badly executed examples of both. Although, if I were to pick one it would be digital, because of the increased amount of colors available. It's more aesthetically pleasing to my eyes.
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Paploo
Posts: 1875 |
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Watch Soul Hunter, be exposed to questionable qualities of both within the same episode, and have all your answers solved!
That said..... Really, I'm fine with either, but there's certain effects and looks you tend to only see in cel animation. I think Disney's CAPS system [an earlier form of digital cels first seen in the later scenes of The Little Mermaid] of the late 80's to early 00's probably produced the prettiest, sharpest colours you'd ever see in animation, but again, you still see a lot of effects/styles in their cel-animated movies like Sleeping Beauty that are difficult to replicate digitally. It's better just to look at films individually on their own merits, and not to take a preference to either , because you never know, you just might miss out on a wonderful experience while you're off fanwhinging somewhere. |
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walw6pK4Alo
 Posts: 9322 |
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I think digital animation can do a whole lot more for anime, but even in expensive and high budget productions, you still see some obvious and out of place CG. That's the bane of digital animation right there. We can get more fluid and well choreographed fights, like in Macross Frontier or Gundam Unicorn, but it still comes at a price. That said, old cel animation has qualities like animators able to put in immense amounts of detail by hand that can no longer really be done, and when you take those old film reels and remaster them in HD, their true beauty can shine through. Whereas for newer stuff, it feels like there's a limit to how much you can upscale a picture.
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The Third Doctor
 Posts: 70 |
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I've liked works that have used a bit of both. I agree that both methds have problems if used badly. The overuse of digital effects or perhaps the bad use of it has started to get to me.
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@
 Posts: 3498 Location: IN your nightmares |
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I really don't understand the underappreciation for digitally produced anime when anime designs at the core strive to retain their authentic hand drawn look while the convenience and technology of computers add to the overall versatility and addition of digital effects added. I really like the cleaner look and finer lines plus the above mentioned digital effects to enhance the visual experience that simply cannot be matched with hand drawn animation.
I think animators feared that when cel animation was being phased out, the look of anime would drastically change and everything would have a CG look like what Pixar puts out. But the voice of dissent stood strong and today's animators fully embrace the capability to produce more shows, faster, less cost, higher quality without sacrificing story and character development. |
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Keonyn
 Subscriber Posts: 5567 Location: Coon Rapids, MN |
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Get a quality artist and team together and they will make the anime look good in cel or digital, the method really doesn't matter in the end as it's the talent that matters most.
Cel is much much more expensive. Every little angle and new movement requires a new cel, and it's very restricting. Get a big enough budget and you can still pull it off though. What this creates is a higher budget medium that provide obvious distinction between lower and higher budget pieces, and made the art less accessible to smaller studios. This helps to keep the quality standards higher. Digital is just as functional as cel, and even more so. You can do so much more with less, and it's far less time intensive. In the end, with the right people, it can look every bit as good as cel or better. By becoming more cost effective though, it paves the for a lot of low budget and simple pieces that would have never made it to screen before digital due to costs. While digital allows the talented to do a lot more with what they have, it also allows the less talented to produce where they never would have before. Overall I think digital is the better option. You can do anything with digital that you can with cel, that's just the reality of it. It allows companies to also produce more cheap crap to flood the market with, but the benefits for the quality pieces easily make up for the flood of forgettable low budget junk that comes with it. |
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RHachicho
 Posts: 897 Location: Essex, UK |
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I have to say my feelings are a bit ambiguous on this one. One one hand I personally prefer the look of digital but not to any strong extent. On one hand I approve of digital because it is faster to produce and has more options. Resutlng in Anime being produced in a shorter time frame. On the other hand when each cell had to be drawn by hand there was far less temptation to make "garbadge" Anime like hyper moe shows or Shounen juggernaughts. You could also talk about how digital animation has given designers new possibilities. Or how cel animation does this yadda yadda yadda.
In the end though you can not stand in the way of progress. Digital is here and digital is staying. So imho pining after the days of cel animation is just a recipe for stress. Besides when you look at a piece of art do you think that it's not as good because the painter used oils not watercolors? Or Nylon instead of Acryllic brushes? Sure they make a difference but it is the artist's use of the tools he is skilled at that defines the quality of the art not the tools themselves. |
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PetrifiedJello
Posts: 3782 |
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After reading several replies in this thread, it seems I'll be repeating some aspects I agree with when it comes to my vote.
This choice is really difficult to make, honestly. Both have their strengths and their weaknesses, but since "both" wasn't an option, I'll have to check the box marked "Digital". Alas, this option comes with a critical sacrifice for me, and that's character design. Many of today's character designs strip away many elements I've come to enjoy. An example of this is replacing knees with shadows. I'm also not a big fan of this new "sheen" element they add to female characters. Those white spots look atrocious and out of place, though I know why they're used. Personally, I wish artists would stop using them. I wish I could recall the series, but there was an in-scene gag when the girls dressed up in their elaborately patterned yukatas to attend a festival, but as they set off, the designs were changed to solid colors. One guy noted this and asked what happened. One of the girls replied, "it's too difficult to animate our designs." I laughed at the line because it's true. Digital affords us designs we've not seen often in cel-produced anime, as well as other effects which simply could not be done by hand easily. Take Aria, for another example, in which the water is constantly moving. No way could this effect be done to this degree by hand easily (and inexpensively). When watching a series, I pay particular attention to the background and it stuns me how little elements are added which really set themselves off, such as moths flying around a street lamp at night. I've seen several cel-produced anime do the same thing, but the flying motion wasn't as fluid. As Keonyn stated, a great team can make a great anime regardless of format, but I do remember reading one artist actually preferred digital because of the great options it gave her compared to being restricted due to cel production. Sadly, I can't recall her name (actually came across the interview looking for something else) or the website I read the interview. It's a little disappointing cost is a major factor for many studios, because I'd love to see what these artists could do without a deadline or restrictions of design. The computer is a very powerful tool in the hands of a very artistic person. Oddly enough, however, I've been looking for more cel-produced anime to add to my collection. When perusing titles, I often use ANN's Encyclopedia to read up on production dates and have found myself buying older titles just to relive some of the series I missed out originally. When news came out that Magic Knight Rayearth was being remastered, I thought to myself they can keep it. The new show may be cleaner, brighter, and regarded as better, but the little things which make it special to me would be lost with it. Watching the eye-catches jiggle as the background music is played is part of its charm, something I'm sure will be lost with the new offering. Thanks to Blood-, I've also seen the power of what a great team, time, and a well-spent budget can produce when he recommended I catch Time of Eve, which remains the best looking digital anime I've ever seen to date. Though, there is a caveat to digital which will force my hand, and that's the day anime enters the 3D arena. When (it's not a question of if) it does, so will my anime enjoyment. If I want 3D, I'd watch live action. Change is inevitable, but here's to hoping some lines are never crossed, or at the very least, holds off as long as possible before it comes. |
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Zalis116
Moderator
 Posts: 6900 Location: Kazune City |
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walw6pK4Alo
Posts: 9322 |
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What are you talking about? That just means that they'll digitally remastering the old show, which is still cel animation. It'll look the same, just with sharper lines and very much cleaned up. Think of the transition from VHS to DVD.
The junk refers to stuff that wouldn't have been economically viable before, like the endless moe harem stuff that everyone forgets about two weeks later. I'm not even talking about the high profile Key stuff, I mean more like Akane Iro or Kono Aozora ni Yakusoku wo, Chu Bra and so on. It might be because these shows were lost to time, licensors and fansubbers alike, but I can't name too many galge/eroge-based slice of life school ecchi romance comedies prior to ToHeart. |
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Westlo
 Posts: 1684 |
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And the recently released Gundam Unicorn looks better than all of them. |
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