Forum - View topicNEWS: Leiji Matsumoto Settles Suit over Plagiarism Claim
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Mohawk52
 Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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About time. Now maybe Matsumoto can get back to creating some new productions.
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Proman
 Posts: 947 Location: USA |
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That's a pretty petty thing to sue over. Especially considering that some people (i.e. Yoko Kanno) blatantly base most of their output on other people's work and nobody make a beep.
Two lines could just be considered to be an homage. |
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egoist
 Posts: 7762 |
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The person suing should be sued by the government for wasting its time, sincerely. Ah, this world doesn't cease to amaze me.
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penguintruth
 Posts: 8503 Location: Penguinopolis |
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Those Yoko Kanno comparisons are pathetic. Most of them sound only vaguely similar. It's nothing but an excuse to tear down a brilliant talent by a bunch of wannabe iconoclasts. But yeah, I think Matsumoto should concentrate on other things besides folks plagarizing a couple of lines. My fear is that he's become one of those old anime guys that's gotten grumpy over the years. |
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Proman
Posts: 947 Location: USA |
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You are only saying this because you don't understand the sheer extent of her "borrowing". When I say blatant, I mean BLATANT as in note for note. Do yourself a favor and compare Sting's "La Belle Dame Sans Regrets" with "Words that We Couldn't Say". The guitar section isn't just close it is identical. I'm only giving you one example here but I'd like to hear you defend this one. I like her and admit she may be a great producer but a brilliant composer she is not. I wouldn't even hold it against her if she just admitted to it. P.S. I know I've said I'll give you just one example and I am very sorry but if you don't see how something like "Cosmic Dare" is a ripoff of Sugarbabe's "Overload" than this argument is pretty much pointless. |
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penguintruth
Posts: 8503 Location: Penguinopolis |
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Oooh, one segment is similar. Such a rip. You're reaching.
I'll admit, those songs are very similar, but there were a multitude of songs like that from the mid to late nineties. You couldn't turn on your radio without hearing a song like that. Thus "Cosmic Dare" not really being one of my favorite Kanno compositions. But her entire skill revolves around sampling music types and putting her own spin on them. She doesn't rip anyone off. She's a genius composer. |
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HellKorn
Posts: 1669 Location: Columbus, OH |
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You would serve yourself well by reading this thread, as well as this one that has lists of songs she's ripped-off. |
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penguintruth
Posts: 8503 Location: Penguinopolis |
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I've read tons of similar threads. It's drivel. And yes, composers have been sampling for centuries. |
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HellKorn
Posts: 1669 Location: Columbus, OH |
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I can only see such claims as them being "drivel" by people who either have no understanding of music or are in denial due to wanting to keep her on a pedestal.
You do not have THAT kind of frequency of melodic and rhythmic similarities from THAT many sources when composing from your original ideas. It's not sampling; it's not giving credit to the original; and it's incredibly disingenuous for you to say and imply otherwise. |
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penguintruth
Posts: 8503 Location: Penguinopolis |
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Yeah, you're such an expert in music. You find similarities of this sort everywhere in music and art, it's called appropriation. Kanno's ability to take similarly occurring elements and incorporate them into largely dissimilar works is the same as any other composer's within the past century, and you couldn't possibly know where Kanno gives credit or has permission to begin with.
All of the comparisons I've seen are gray areas at best. The allegations of "plagiarism" are exaggerated. It's almost like nobody knows what the term means. The industry isn't stupid. I'm sure competitors would have brought it up, or studios shunned her work by this time if they thought she was that big a plagiarist. It comes down to a matter of opinion. I can understand you thinking she borrows too much, or suspiciously, but to insist it's outright fraud is absurd. |
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HellKorn
Posts: 1669 Location: Columbus, OH |
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penguintruth
Posts: 8503 Location: Penguinopolis |
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Again, you're exaggerating. Nothing of what Kanno borrows in any of her pieces amounts to wholesale plagiarism. Even if an artist couldn't afford to sue her, you would certainly hear outrage from some parts the music community, and you just don't. Nothing would stand up in court, and they barely stand up in those lame YouTube comparisons.
It is true that Kanno is my favorite anime music composer, but I don't worship her by any means, and even I was a little disappointed by how often she borrows, and to what degree, when I first heard of the controversy. But then I listened to the pieces she "stole" from, and most of them sounded like any number of songs from the period from which they came. It's not plagiarism, and the effort to dismantle her works seems like a lot of reaching by wannabe iconoclasts and hyper sensitives who do the same sort of whining when any musical artist's work sounds vagely like another's. Kanno composes enough amazing original (if you can use that word, because, as I said, all composers are influenced by past composers) pieces to not let vague similarities get in the way of me enjoying her work. |
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HellKorn
Posts: 1669 Location: Columbus, OH |
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Would you really argue that Tom Waits would be familiar with a musical composer predominantly known for working on anime? We're not talking about Joe Hisaishi or Ryuichi Sakamoto, both of whom are known (and the latter has won awards!) for their music on live-action films as well as animation. Only two of Yoko Kanno's non-anime material have been released outside of Japan: the Honey and Clover live-action adaption and Ashura. The former is clearly marketed towards fans of the anime and manga, and the latter is a recent action-fantasy flick that barely has over 300 votes on IMDB.
Like I said, if she were to just own up to all this by giving credit where credit is due, then it would not be an issue. |
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Proman
Posts: 947 Location: USA |
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That's classic defense, there, e.g. - I don't like it ergo let's not even count that. I liked how you still called it a Kanno composition though.
Penguin"truth", I'm sorry but your ignorance is staggering. First of all, it's not that one segment is similar. It is exactly the same and so is the entire song. Second, yes it is a "rip". It is the very definition of a rip-off and there was nothing "pathetic" about brining up this point in a thread to a news article that disscusses a far lesser offence. People have been successfully sued for far less than what Kanno did for a long time. It is not reaching. Third, this is one example of many, a point that should not be ignored here. You are either unfamiliar with music in general or are simply unwilling to admit that which is obvious to many people who have normal hearing. Your dismissals don't work either, because there is a clear and fairly objectional difference between homages and ripoffs. In any case, I don't know any other composer, Hollywood, Classical or otherwise who blatantly ripped off as many other works for as many years.
It's not "sampling" when the entire work is based around somebody else's work. You don't need a Ph. D to know that. What Kanno does is a lot more akin to a job of a talented but still law-breaking producer. Also, I don't know if you know this but producers/musicians actually pay for samples (especially those longer than 1 second). I'm not even going to talk about asking for permissions first. Do you think Kanno ever did that? Had she EVER credited people she "sampled"? I leave you with just one more comment:
I already told you about "Words that We Couldn't Say" - that's wholesale plagarism. So is the opening theme to "Escaflowne" that is "wholesale" take on Adiemus's self-titled track. I'll give you that the woman does have some talent though. She must - for one thing her records often sound great and the list of her "sources" is quite varied and even expressive. Anything from Steve Reich and Angelo Badalamenti to Ennio Marricone and Herbie Hancock... She also worked with some pretty great English lyricists and singers. I mean, I understand why you enjoy her - I do too  . I just wish you were willing to put things in perspective.
You are welcome to continue dissmissing the evidence but I doubt a lot of people will be swayed by your arguments  .
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penguintruth
Posts: 8503 Location: Penguinopolis |
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As opposed to the five people on the internet who think you're right, right?
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