Forum - View topicBest Hero/Heroine Tournament: Finished!
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18458 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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And this is, I think, a very overlooked point in Balsa's favor. Chagum isn't just being saved and protected by Balsa; he's becoming a better and stronger person for his association with her. I can't think of a way that Vash matches that. I also agree about the begging and pleading; yes, I understand why Vash does it, but the way he does it is entirely too demeaning for me to take him seriously as a hero. Anyway, with ten votes now in the two matches are headed in totally different directions. Group A is a surprisingly complete blow-out, while Group B is deadlocked. |
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DarkGyraen
Posts: 34 |
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Group A Final
Kenshin Himura, Ruroni Kenshin franchise vs. Shu Maritani, Now and Then, Here and There Vote - Shu: At this point, I have to take into consideration that 3 of the potentials in this round are of the "making up for my past" caliber. And while I like Kenshin, he certainly isn't the strongest of the three, although I'd pick him over Vash if that was the choice. I think Shu's an all around stronger choice at this point, based on the arguments that I've heard, although I'm honestly not as familiar with that show, so that's who's getting my vote. Group B Final Balsa, Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit vs. Vash the Stampede, Trigun Vote - Balsa: I can honestly say that if Balsa loses at this point in the competition, I'm so done with this whole thing. These are two very similar characters when you look at their motivations for their actions, but it's their characters that are drastically different. While Vash has that very silly, laid back attitude that makes him popular, he dosn't have -near- the depth of character that Balsa has. I will admit that the scope of what Vash is dealing with is potentially bigger, although if you look at what the outcome could be if Balsa failed in her task, it would effect quite a large number of people as well. What puts Balsa so much farther ahead in my eyes is the layers to the character herself, which makes her appear to be a -real- heroine, which is a rare thing. She's attractive, but it's not a detractor for her, it's just natural and I like that it's not something that's overly played. She's incredibly skilled as a fighter, but it's enough that you know how good she is, you aren't forced to see it again and again to prove it to you, and it's not used as some schtick to make the show better. Her motivation is even more pure, as she dosn't wish to kill because of a true moral conviction, as compared to the idea that she just dosn't like it. Vash has just vowed not to kill because of his past, Balsa has vowed to save 8 lives because of hers, but she's vowed not to kill because in her eyes, if she must kill 1 person to save another, it invalidates the good she did to save the life. I have to applaud her for having a -real- reason for not wanting to kill, other than "wahh for me, look at my past" like the other two. For that alone she should be moved to the next round, never mind her utter selflessness, matronly nature, tactical intelligence or the fact that she is genuinely not only a great heroine, but truly a good role model from an anime character, which is even more rare. I simply cannot -fathom- on any level how someone can pick Vash over Balsa, she's the more complete, and heroic version of him. I apologize for any typos, I'm also on a laptop in the middle of some traveling, but I still wanted to get in my two cents! |
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Gewürtztraminer
 Posts: 1028 Location: Texas - Its like whole other country. |
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Group A Final
Kenshin Himura, Ruroni Kenshin franchise vs. Shu Maritani, Now and Then, Here and There I have purchased and started the first season of Ruroni Kenshin, and now see why Kenshin has made it this far. There is a lot to like about him as a hero. The clip did a good job of setting up the next phase of the story, and the tough issues he is soon to face. Shu's clip... I have made it through NTHT completely once last year. Everytime I see a clip or piece from the show, I start a train of thought that ends in me being moved to tears. A kid with a stick, who does so much in situations so dire that it is hard to wrap your mind around. Vote: Shu Group B Final Balsa, Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit vs. Vash the Stampede, Trigun This one is tough for me. As both clips indicate, the vow not to kill can be used against you to such a point where it is really no longer possible to maintain it. To me, Vash's most impressive scene, was a short clip where Meryl walked in on him while he was getting dressed, and all of the scars that Vash has gathered in resolving issues without killing are visible. It was a short clip, but it was impressive in demonstrating the lengths he would go to. Still, though incomplete on viewing, I prefer Balsa's confidence and coolness to Vash's comic relief. Also playing into this is Vash's physical superiority to humans. The only other non human to make it this far is Duck, whose physical abilities would certainly be below human. Vote: Balsa |
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Olliff
 Posts: 550 |
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Group A Final
Kenshin Himura, Ruroni Kenshin franchise vs. Shu Maritani, Now and Then, Here and There Vote - Shu: Not at all familiar with Shu or his series, but as much I would hate to admit it, Shu's clip is much stronger and I believe that Shu deserves to win here. I have a tremendous level of respect for Kenshin's character, so much that I picked him to win it all. However, it is clear in my mind that Shu has Kenhsin beat. His determination, willpower and relentless steadfastness despite being just a "boy with a stick" outclasses Kenshin's classic, but somewhat cliche background. Group B Final Balsa, Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit vs. Vash the Stampede, Trigun Vote - Balsa: I believe that Balsa has the most decisive edge over Vash based on assertiveness and dignity. Both characters are kind hearted pacifists that are drawn to pacifism for two very different reasons. While both character earn points for purity and for being all around good guys/gals with pure intentions, Balsa's solemness commands a level of respect that is simply outside of Vash's reach. Lastly, unlike Balsa, Vash is a wide-eyed idealist addled by naivety that makes him seem child-like and endearing, but it doesn't do him any favors when I am measuring heroics. And with this round alone -- I am most likely out of the running not only to win, but to place in the top 3. Can't say that I am disappointed with my performance -- just made some bad late picks -- mainly due to my lack of familiarity with Shu, and a few of the other heavy hitters that proved fatal to my bracket. Despite this, I will keep voting. This contest remains one of the main reasons why I still post on ANN. And hopefully, some day I will be able to get to see Shu and maybe even Duck in action -- I just hope I don't set expectations that are too high. |
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Mad_Scientist
 SubscriberModerator  Posts: 3013 |
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Group A Final
Kenshin Himura, Ruroni Kenshin franchise vs. Shu Maritani, Now and Then, Here and There My vote: Shu Maritani Now and Then is one of my favorite series, so I knew how strong Shu was going into this series. Or thought I did. I think I underestimated him. He's winning by a blowout so there's not a huge need to make massive arguments in his favor, so I'll be brief. Shu sticks to his convictions under insane circumstances. He goes through hardship that would drive most people mad. He saves other people lives, sometimes even from themselves. Armed with nothing but a stick, he frequently risks his life and goes against people ranging from soldiers to mad dictators... and he prevails. He is definitely deserving of this vote. Group B Final Balsa, Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit vs. Vash the Stampede, Trigun My vote: Balsa Balsa could be considered similiar to Vash. (Kenshin as well, though I'll focus mostly on Vash here since that's who she's facing.) All of them are skilled fighters who have vowed not to kill others. But I feel Balsa is definitely the strongest candidate among them all. Dorcus and Key went into one strong point Balsa has that many have overlooked, her relationship with Chagum. By agreeing to protect him, she was getting herself into something huge. She essentially hade to become a mother, a mother to a prince who has zero experience living a normal life. And she did so admirably, teaching him and making him a better person. For the "inspirational" part of heroism, Balsa does very well. In addition, certain aspects of Vash's personality do not always come off well, I'm afraid. His "pleading" has been discussed by some, and while I believe many have overstated this aspect (it's not like all he does when faced with a villian is whine at them to change their ways), it still does hurt Vash some in my mind. He's naivity and lack of assertiveness at times hurt him in my mind. |
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LydiaDianne
 Posts: 5634 Location: Southern California |
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I think that I said in my original post that Balsa's heroism affected fewer people...that true, in the sense of affecting directly. But because of what Balsa has taught Chagum and because she forced him to interact with "common" people, he will become a better prince for that. And because he has some knowledge of the common people, their lives will become better under his hand and rule. So Balsa does affect as many people as Vash, but we just don't see the immediate results. |
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Dorcas_Aurelia
 Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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Turn out this round is rather low right now, especially taking into account that this is about the point where interest renews, now that we're down to 8 of the best. In the previous two tournaments, this was the round that reversed downward participation trends. And while it's unlikely that Kenshin can come back to defeat Shu, Balsa's lead over Vash currently isn't a guarantee of victory, so votes still matter.
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mow123
 Posts: 339 |
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Going to keep this short and to the point.
Group A Final Kenshin Himura, Ruroni Kenshin franchise vs. Shu Maritani, Now and Then, Here and There My vote: Shu Maritani I still believe that Shu is one of the strongest contenders in tournament. I can only think of only a few others at most that I would even think of voting for over Shu. Shu's determination, and devotion is incomparable and he doesn't have any special skills or powers like many other heroes. Even with this disadvantage he faces hardships that would break the will of almost anyone, he still manages to push on and persevere. Group B Final Balsa, Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit vs. Vash the Stampede, Trigun My vote: Balsa Balsa ha few thing that Vash simply doesn't have dignity, seriousness, or a level-headedness. Vash has a heart of gold, but he also has the common sense of someone a fraction of his age with the naivety and youthful idealism to match. While others may not agree, I also find it harder to respect a hero that can't take themselves seriously. |
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abunai
Old Regular
 Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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At this point of the tournament, any choice is painful. This was a bad one, though.
Group A Final Kenshin Himura, Ruroni Kenshin franchise vs. Shu Maritani, Now and Then, Here and There This is difficult for me, but nevertheless the easiest choice of this round. Shu is certainly less mature (to begin with) than Kenshin, but he has the advantage, in terms of heroism, of never wavering. It seems to me that Kenshin's continual heroism is to a large part compensation for his earlier misdeeds. Certainly, that's heroic, but Shu is more pure and unspoiled. Oh, I don't know whether that's such a good argument, seeing as how I am a firm believer in the ennobling quality of personal redemption by deeds. I really ought to pick Kenshin -- but my choice is his opponent. So there. Group B Final Balsa, Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit vs. Vash the Stampede, Trigun The main reason why it took me so long to vote is that I simply couldn't make up my mind about this match. It really is that close. I wish I could point to a fatal flaw in either character, but no can do. I would vote for Vash because he's everything that I see as truly heroic -- he declines to use his awesome powers, stays pacifistic throughout, struggles to save everyone (and tragically fails), and maintains a loveably positive outlook on life. I would vote for Balsa because she is steadfast, strong, mature and wise. She knows her limits and pushes her own envelope continually, never giving up in her pursuit of her task. Her word is her bond. She is a lot more believable than Vash, because her motivations are more clear and human (few people are as consistently pacifistic as Vash). It's a quandary. I have no solution, since I am entirely in balance between the two. Still, I have to choose. *closes eyes, waves hands frantically* Ahhhh.... Balsa. - abunai |
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murph76
 Posts: 3291 Location: Akron, OH |
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Group A Final
Kenshin Himura, Ruroni Kenshin franchise vs. Shu Maritani, Now and Then, Here and There Voting for Shu. A boy and his stick change a dystopian future. Group B Final Balsa, Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit vs. Vash the Stampede, Trigun Voting for Vash. People have talked about Vash's silliness as if it's a bad thing. Knowing that most of the damage attributed to him is caused by those after the $$60 billion bounty, Vash developed that persona to keep the peace. To me, this adds to his character because he's willing to be the fool, to suffer insults and injury, if it keeps people safe. Being a hero is knowing when to fight, and knowing when another course of action, such as groveling naked in the street to protect a girl who's like his little sister, is best. Personal humiliation means nothing to Vash, only the results of his actions matter. When Vash does fight, it is usually for the protection of others. He will defend himself, but in a way that doesn't kill and usually doesn't even harm his enemies. An example would be when he uses a child's suction-cup dart gun to defeat the bounty hunters. Balsa is heroic, but her motivation in "raising" Chagum is for him to blend in better with the commoners. This does have the added benefit of teaching Chagum more about his kingdom than he would learn at the castle, but it is primarily for protection and disguise. Vash fights for the benefit of all. Balsa fights for one -- Chagum. Therefore, Vash gets my vote. |
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ccdx
 Posts: 312 |
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Group A Final
Kenshin Himura, Ruroni Kenshin franchise vs. Shu Maritani, Now and Then, Here and There This is a tough matchup. But for reasons others have already stated, Shu is the clear winner. Kenshin deserves to be here for sure, but ultimately Shu demonstrates far more impressive heroics in a much much bleaker situation than most of us could imagine. Group B Final Balsa, Moribito – Guardian of the Spirit vs. Vash the Stampede, Trigun I had a tougher time coming to this decision. I don't exactly see either as the ultimate hero. Both have some glaring flaws that will probably doom them next round. I'll have to side with Balsa. I never really could see the true greatness of Vash's deeds. Not that they weren't impressive, but they just kinda fell flat for me. While he certainly has his extremely emotional and silly side, most of the time the show was trying to portray him as more of a badass than a hero. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18458 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Round 5 Groups A and B Finals is now closed.
And so two of the Final Four are now set: Group A While I expected Shu to have a good chance in this round, him making a clean sweep of as strong a contender as Kenshin was stunning. That now makes two Flawless Victories for Shu in a row over some not-insignificant competition; will anyone left be able to even contest him, much less stop him? Group B This one was seriously contested for a while, but as the week wore on Balsa gradually pulled away for a 12-6 victory - which perhaps shouldn't be surprising, given that Vash had to actually struggle in one of the early rounds. That will mess up some minigame brackets, I'm sure. The vote total was disappointing for this stage, but such is life. Next round has a couple of match-ups coming up that probably won't be as close as they should be. That will probably be up in an hour or so. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18458 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Round 5: Groups C and D finals is now open!
Two more Groups wrap up here, with two more spots in the Final Four immediately at stake. Will either of Miyazaki's heroes make the cut? Can Nausicaa challenge Duck's consistently strong showings, and can Ashitaka defeat his second straight Gurren Lagann opponent? All remains to be seen. . . Group C Final Nausicaa, Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind vs. Duck/Princess Tutu, Princess Tutu Group D Final Ashitaka, Princess Mononoke vs. Simon, Gurren Lagann |
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LydiaDianne
Posts: 5634 Location: Southern California |
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Group C Final
Nausicaa, Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind vs. Duck/Princess Tutu, Princess Tutu Staying with dear, sweet Duck because while both girls tried really hard, I think that Duck truly had more to overcome. Group D Final Ashitaka, Princess Mononoke vs. Simon, Gurren Lagann Ashitaka for his strong, silent type of heroism. And for the fact that he never needed anyone to push him into being strong or a hero. |
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zawa113
 Posts: 7358 |
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These are both easy choices for me.
Group C final: Duck Why must the "F" be so close to the "D" on the keyboard? I near typoed that! Typo issues aside, Nausicaa may defend her people, which seems to be something a lot of people do, but Duck bears a terrible fate and along the way saves many people and spoiler[helps break the world from Drosselmeyer's story]. Someone said earlier (dunno if it was during the tourney or nominations) that everything good that happens in this series is a direct result of Duck and her selfless heroism and I couldn't agree more, she does quite a lot above and beyond the call of duty, there's no question in my mind she should move on. Group D final: Simon Ok, so Ashitaka returns the head, but considering Miyazaki's pro environment anti-human thing, it seems everything was left more or less the same, I don't quite see how what he did changed the world. On the other hand, Simon comes from a small hole in the ground to bringing people to the surface, rebuilding society (eventually for the better) and going from a true zero to hero. This would have been an incredibly difficult decision had he been against Kamina, the trigger for Simon, but Simon goes through a depresssion, is able to overcome it and he becomes his own inspiration to the world by the end of the series without ever looking for gloating recognition, he does what Kamina did spoiler[in the beginning before he dies] and more. Also, Ashitaka is in a movie, movies severely limit heroic act capabilities to me, he can only do so much and I believe Simon's achievements in Gurren Lagann far outshine anything Ashitaka was able to muster by the end of the movie. Simon was never expecting to be a hero, which makes him all the greater when he answers the call and then goes above it. |
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