Forum - View topicBakemonogatari (TV).
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Since I don't have Schindler's List, finding the exact scene I want (nevermind the exact shot from the exact scene) is nigh-on impossible. But just as Tsubasa and Araragi are separated by chair legs, Schindler and Amon were separated by a window frame, with both men against a bright background and only seen through their own window panels. My fifth-form English class did the movie you see, and that was one of the more clever shots in the movie (shows that Schindler and Amon can stand so close and talk to one another, and yet they are, and will always be, divided by invisible barriers). Now, I'm not necessarily saying that the camera work in Schindler's List was a source of inspiration to Bakemonogatari, as that is quite a stretch. What I am saying is that some of the camera angles in the latter reminds me of a few of the more interesting shots in the former, with the scene I described being the most notable. |
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HellKorn
Posts: 1669 Location: Columbus, OH |
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Right, though the specific example you gave isn't too uncommon of a film technique. (Anno uses it practically every chance he gets...) I understand the reference point, though I think Shinbo is just playing around with conventions here (somehow curbing his usual excess while parodixically indulging it in more... At least Shaft doesn't seem to have an excess of red paint to throw around). |
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Hentai_JP
 Posts: 605 Location: Toronto, ON |
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Did anyone else got a feeling like he was taken by a storm? I sure did.
Words can't describe my state of awe while watching first episode of Bakemonogatari. I didn't even realise I was watching opener untill it ended. Bakemonogatari is as weird as it gets: just look at those camera angles, walls of text and distinct art & animation. Story is something else as well. I am very impressed. Based on the first episode alone, I'd rate it a masterpiece. I expect great things from this series, and I already think that thirteen episodes is not nearly enough. Summer season continues to impress. I would like to recommend [qIIq] or いい-Subs fansub group, as they translated not only dialogue but all that onscreen text as well. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Thanks for the tip, but in the future be careful. We aren't supposed to talk about fansubs in any detail. It is sort of one of those funny legally-grey situations where everyone is breaking "the code" by watching fansubs and then talking about what we watched, but we are pleasantly tolerated/ignored as long as we don't specifically mention which fansub group we use or which site we got them from. That's the way I see it, anyway. The upshot is, don't be surprised if a Moderator quietly edits the group's name out of your post (don't worry, I won't report you). |
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Hentai_JP
Posts: 605 Location: Toronto, ON |
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Well I am not telling anyone where to find it, I take that most of us have enough of common sense to figure that out, so I hope it doesn't get edited.
Another thing about Bakemonogatari. I picked up this title only because it was SHAFT's production. Now, I don't think any other studio is capable of putting together this work of art at the same level. SHAFT has it's magic, their use of camera angles, thick lines, bright colours, use of moving stills... the series just wouldn't be the same in hands of any other studio. Maybe I should make a little srine where I can worship it[NAGI-SAMA!!!]. 
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Episode Two
First of all, we got an actual opener in this episode. It seems alright; not very memorable apart from the images of staplers, but it will suffice. Now, this episode felt a lot less shocking and somewhat less surreal than the first, but still nowhere near conventional. It would appear to be a deliberate decision, and not just brought on by the writers and storyboarder running out of ideas. We still got some treats; for instance the camera being situated under the floorboards looking up at Hitagi in a "panty-shot" fashion (hey, she was in her underwear anyway), and the real doll wrapped in bandages and circled by animated flowers. Also interesting was Araragi's loose bit of hair often being the subject of the camera's attention in the first half; what was all that about? Well, there was quite a lot of talking in this episode. It never got boring, thankfully, and the new take on Neon Genesis Evangelion's methods of psychoanalysis was interesting. If nothing else it gave the audience something to look at while we heard Hitagi's story, and the exposition for it (I can't tell if it was Araragi or Oshino). In terms of characters, it was sort of funny to see Hitagi tease Araragi, but it did go on too long. The outpouring of long-pent-up emotion was kind of jarring in what was previously a very surreal experience, but hey, at least we know they aren't robots. Hitagi probably will be a lot nicer now; a smile looks good on her. I wonder what she will do from here on out? Actually, what will everyone - not just her - do from now on? Help other unfortunate souls? We still don't know much about Araragi, other than he hates being teased, is still a virgin, cannot help but stare at beautiful flesh, and somehow came up with a cool US$54,000 to pay Oshino. Maybe he used his vampire powers to steal the money? Oh, and in a nice end to the episode, he seems to have gained a similar weight than Hitagi did (she regained approximately 40kg, he's gained 45kg). Poor Araragi. Also, we now know the voices we hear after the credits belong to his two sisters. Why does one dress in a Japanese outfit and one dress in a more Western outfit? Sort of reminds me of Lunar Legend Tsukihime. But hey, at least they look like his sisters, unlike so many Anime which sport siblings that don't look anything like one another. Kimi no Shiranai Monogatari, the ending song, is growing on me. Just thought I'd throw that out there. Um, anything else? Not really, though I will say despite the change in pace, this was still (in my opinion at least) a great episode. It just inevitably lacked all of the novelty and weirdness we might have been expecting. Last edited by dtm42 on Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:37 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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LeanGreen
 Posts: 323 Location: New England |
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For episode 2, the scene of Hitagi walking around in her underwear lasted far, far too long. I mean, that was half the episode! Yeah, I get that many beautiful anime gals don't mind (and sometimes like) undressing in front of guys they hardly know, as shown in many an ecchi show, but taking that long was really unnecessary. I guess I shouldn't be this irritated, but for this series I wasn't expecting such blatant fanservice.
Aside from my obvious dislike for the first half, the second half was suprisingly deep and insightful. The fact that Hitagi spoiler[was almost raped and that her mother was a member of a devious cult (what other kind of cult is there?) ] came out of nowhere. That is probably the first time I've heard of a backstory involving spoiler[cults]. Well, at least the first time in a while. The contrast between the two parts of this episode really left me conflicted with my opinion on the show so far. On the one hand you have a half naked chick waltzing around and on the other you've got a mature, serious scene that manages to leave an impact. Odd. |
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tarheel91
 Posts: 128 |
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I don't really feel like starting a debate at 2 in the morning, so I'll try to limit what I say. All scenes with underwear aren't necessarily just for fan service. Not being able to make that distinction is almost as bad as obsessing over it (fan service, that is). |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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I wonder if you have actually seen the episode (and therefore scenes) in question. I mean, we see her in the shower from several shots. Then she wanders out of the shower in the nude (not even a towel), casually walks over and starts getting dressed, and makes it to wearing her bra and panties. Then she puts on a blouse, realises she hasn't dried her hair, and undresses back to her underwear. Once her hair is done she starts putting on more clothes, until finally she is ready. All the time she's making jokes and insinuating that Araragi is a creep, a pervert and a moron, and much of the time the camera is focusing on her. Well, I mean the various parts of her that are of particular interest to a heterosexual male. I don't know how long this all went on for (I'm not at the same computer that the episode is on), but it felt like half the episode. While I agree with you in that not all scenes with females in their undergarments were intended solely as fanservice, the overwhelmingly vast majority of such scenes are there to titillate. Also, I think you missed LeanGreen's point in that it wasn't just the fanservice that was the problem, but the gratuitousness and sheer length. It simply didn't need to run so long, and it didn't need to have Hitagi continually putting on and taking off clothes. And many of the camera angles were there purely for fanservice reasons, that much is clear. By your post, I think it is you who needs to re-evaluate when a scene exists either for fanservice or mostly for fanservice, and when a scene simply has - for whatever reason - a scantily-clad female. |
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Blackpeppir
Posts: 234 |
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I can agree with this. The gratuitous fanservice aside, I usually enjoy scenes when the characters just play off each other and get a good back and forth going. However in this case, the whole thing felt, not only, long and dragged out but almost as if it felt cheapened by Hitagi prancing around trying to get a rise out of Araragi. The only relevant piece of info I could get from the scene is that she doesn't like wearing clothes because they're too heavy. Still, even that's grasping for straws, but what can you do? I mean I'll sit through huge expositions and explanations if it's something interesting, but Hitagi just sort of cycled between "moron" and "pervert" about three times until she invites him for a crab dinner. My qualms with that particular scene aside, I did love the rest of the episode. Especially the "psycho music" playing as they climbed the stairs. As I said above I love backstories and explanations and I'm really happy to see that they won't be pulling the punches with the psycho-drama with this anime. I'm really looking forward to more. |
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Westlo
 Posts: 1684 |
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Arc 2 has a new OP, as does Arc's 3-5. |
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LeanGreen
Posts: 323 Location: New England |
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That was my main point yes. I don't think you can debate about whether the various close-ups of Hitagi's underpants were fanservice. Thanks for hopefully clearing this issue up, dtm42. My hostility towards those scenes were probably not only due to the length of them, but also the fact that I really was not expecting them after nothing of the sort being shown in episode 1. It might have been reasonable to say that while Hitagi and Araragi were speaking they were developing character, but the atmosphere just became much too awkward and even felt a bit tense because of the severe repetition of the jokes and the pointlessness of the conversation. |
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Westlo
Posts: 1684 |
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Did you like miss the very first scene in the show? It even had a timer ffs... |
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LeanGreen
Posts: 323 Location: New England |
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Well, since it was the beginning of the show I sort of forgot about it. Also the fact that it didn't go on for five minutes made me think that maybe it was just a way to attract attention to the series, maybe to ensure more viewers. I don't recall any part of the first episode besides that first scene being focused on fanservice or panty shots or whatever else. |
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belindabird
 Subscriber Posts: 134 Location: Minneapolis |
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Personally I was also put off a bit by the length of the underwear scene. Afterward, though, I thought that it may have been a way to demonstrate the character's spoiler[lack of emotion (at least from the way I understood it, part of what was taken away from her were feelings as well as her weight)] The second half of the episode, she is much more conservatively dressed and when the situation is resolved her personality changes noticeably as well.
I'm certainly not one to normally defend fanservice, but since the other aspects of this series have been pretty enjoyable and fanservice doesn't seem to be an overall theme as far as the main parts of the show are concerned (perhaps someone familiar with the books might be able to confirm/deny this?), I'm willing to defend it a little bit and give it the benefit of the doubt. Of course, if episode three rolls around and there are panties everywhere, all bets are off
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