Forum - View topicTitle translations, or lack thereof (rant).
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Zin5ki
 Posts: 6680 Location: London, UK |
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It is essentially a sign of elitism if groups abstain from using an obvious translation of a name, but that's something I've come to expect. A snobbish thing for them to do perhaps, but not something I hold against them. I don't know enough about how groups operate to comment on the notion of a 'community agreement', but however frustrating it may be for them to name titles counterintuitively it's their choice to do so. Elitism isn't a word that brings up primarily pejorative connotations for me.
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Kruszer
 Posts: 7994 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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For me, I use the proper name at the time, whatever that may be; the US title if it's liscensed, the Japanese title/most commonly translated fansub title if it isn't If you're going to mention a name, it's like an indirect plug for a series you like (or hate). If someone else is curious about it and tries to look it up, obviously the goal should be to help them find it faster and avoid bootleged products.
So how do I go about doing that? The answer is simplicity and the "KISS" (Keep it simple stupid) philosophy. Well for one thing if your searching Best Buy's anime section in the Ks looking for "Kimi ga Nozomu Eien" you're not going to find jack squat and go away disappointed but if I actually used the right title and you were looking for "Rumbling Hearts" a capable person could probabally locate it in the Rs and go home happy, with a nice boxset. Conversely, if I told you all to go out and find torrents for "Ryoko's Case File" your searches probabally wouldn't come up with much since all the subbers I've seen use/list it as "Yakushiji Ryoko no Kaiki Jikenbo". |
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Craeyst Raygal
 Posts: 1383 Location: In the garage, beneath a 1970 MGB GT. |
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You know, this really baffles me a little bit because it's not anything like when we were getting "Those Obnoxious Aliens". I mean, c'mon folks. About the last thing I have issue with is the folks who keep correcting me when I say "Oh! My Goddess".
It's been called that in the States for as long as there's been manga released in the states. Fujishima likes the title. It's the DAMNABLE TITLE! |
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Kruszer
Posts: 7994 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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Well, techically the original OVA is called Oh! My Goddess so I'd say it's a valid title. Now if you used it to refer to the longer TV series as Oh My Goddess, then it might get confusing for some given those are traslated as Ah! My Goddess. I'm going to take a guess and say the difference in translation was a liscensing issue?
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Kimiko_0
 Posts: 1796 Location: Leiden, NL, EU |
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I think the Ah! My Goddess! translation is based on the Japanese Aa! Megami-sama!. It was changed to Oh! My Goddess! because of the English language pun on the OMG! exclamation. Reportedly, the original creator of the franchise approved of this translation bonus, so fans have been calling it Oh! My Goddess! since, despite the TV series officially being called Ah! My Goddess!.
Or that's what I heard anyway. The whole argument is kinda bothersome I think, so I prefer the Japanese title myself. Last edited by Kimiko_0 on Sat Nov 08, 2008 6:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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DuelLadyS
 Posts: 1705 Location: WA state |
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Wait- 'Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann' actually means something? I just assumed it was random made-up words that came into context watching the show. I think I've gone and proven the whole point of the rant there 
Anyway- in all honestly, there's 2 reasons I don't bother with fansubs, ever- 1) I'd prefer not to break the family-shared computer by accidentally downloading some virus-laced video file, and 2) I'd have no idea what to download- the excessive use of Japanese names certainly doesn't help that problem. I do know some Japanese, but not enough to make sense of very many titles off the top of my head. As far as offical release titles... I can only think of 2 instances where I might've preferred the name not translated. Jigoku Shoujo/Hell Girl, just becuase 'Hell Girl' sounds kinda cheesy in English. (Not that 'Jigoku Shoujo' is a preferable change nessecarily... honestly can't come up with a good way around that one.) 'KareKano' is a nice, easy-to-say nickname version of ' Kareshi Kanojo no Jijou', and far less of a mouthful than 'His and Her Circumstances', which I think should've been regulated to a subtitles or left off entirely. (Think 'Kodocha'.) I don't mind 'Utawarerumono' being left, since pretty much any version of the translation might sound too 'soft' for a show about a war... plus, ADV turned the name into a marketing gimmick, which I got a kick out of ("Be the first on your block who can say it!") There aren't any shows I've skipped for sake of a bad name, though- I'm more likely to make a call based on the art than the title- so bad box art is the true nemesis of DVD sales! |
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Craeyst Raygal
Posts: 1383 Location: In the garage, beneath a 1970 MGB GT. |
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You have it right, Kimiko. When Dark Horse brought over Oh! My Goddess, they thought that Fujishima had intended his title to be a Japanese version of the English "Oh My God" phrase and translated it accordingly. Of course, it wasn't originally Fujishima's intent, but he loved the pun (as most older Japanese men tend to love a good pun) and said to keep the change.
AnimEigo followed suit when they licensed the OAV, and it was Pioneer who broke the chain when they licensed the movie. Whether it was AIC mandating the official "Ah! My Goddess" translation or uptight fan pressure that led to the switch is unknown, but as far as I'm concerned Kosuke Fujishima likes his creation being called Oh! My Goddess in English and that's what I use for the franchise. |
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Zalis116
Moderator
 Posts: 6900 Location: Kazune City |
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I've never had strong feelings either way about the AMG vs. OMG issue. As long as people aren't referring to this franchise that's been known with an English title since the mid-90s as "Aa! Megami-sama," I don't have a problem with it. But guess how the fansubs for the TV series were labeled.
Something else I wanted to mention:
*Obviously, there is overlap between those groups, but anecdotes of people saying things like "Oh, I didn't know they licensed [series] because I knew [series] by the Japanese name" or "I looked for [series] under the Japanese title but couldn't find it" or "why the hell did they Americanize the title?" are all too common. |
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DuelLadyS
Posts: 1705 Location: WA state |
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I was the other way around- I avoided the title due to the dry, lengthy name that sounded like a bad school health film. It was only after a couple years of consistent praise online and a TRSI Christmas sale that I actually bought it- and I still had to look up a couple reviews prior to purchase, just to be sure it was 'the right one'. I think shoujo and/or 'pretty' shows benefit a little more from less translation than other genres- all the girls I know, anyway (myself included) are more apt to buy based on art, so a slightly 'mysterious/pretty'-sounding foreign/gibberish title can actually be a draw- provided it's mostly pronounceable or at least looks good on the box (Kyo Kara Maoh comes to mind.) I know I was sold on Shonen Onmyouji after seeing it in Newtype USA, despite not knowing what an 'Onmyouji' was- actually, I wanted it before I even checked what the title was. Although I ended up having the other problem you've brought up- I very nearly missed buying it becuase I couldn't remember how to spell 'Onmyouji' and didn't realize it was releasing.  I have trouble with it to this day (I keep dropping the 'u'.)
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Ardlien
 Posts: 59 |
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Perhaps I'm alone in this but I prefer japanese titles (for some shows) for similar reasons to my preference for japanese audio with english subtitles. It's not about being cool for me, it's not because I'm in lurve with japan, it's more because I connect more when I read the dialogue than when I hear it.
I'm starting to think that english voice actors aren't bad, it's just that I prefer treating anime like a storybook with tones for the characters being provided by the japanese soundtrack. The similarity between this and the japanese titles thing is that the title is likely the only thing apart from characters' names that I'll say out loud or even pronounce mentally, and to have the quasi-gibberish soundtrack interrupted by something that I can sound out and understand, leaves me somewhat jarred. I guess my perfect title would be english in text but japanese in sound? This sounds crazy even to me, again perhaps I'm alone in this regard. I would agree that long strings of romanised japanese text are rather intimidating (counterproductive?) as titles. I don't agree that the current trend of keeping some (most?) of the titles in japanese in fansubbing circles is a problem. |
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Richard J.
 Posts: 3367 Location: Sic Semper Tyrannis. |
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I think the word Onmyouji is a proper noun though. I haven't watched the show but I believe it's either the name of or a term used in a Japanese spiritual art as I've heard it in other series. So translating the title would actual mean keeping that word as is, I think. Trying to translate the whole thing would mean calling the show something like Boy Priest or Young Exorcist right? Personally, I think translating titles has a sliding scale of importance. The more dramatic, real-world the title, the more the title needs to be a clear and concise English. The more zany, comedic, strange the title, the less the need for a clear English title. That's my take at least. Still, some titles just don't have a clear good translation, like the aforementioned Koi Kaze. Love Wind? The Winds of Love? Love's Zephyr? You start getting a headache just trying to make the title sound cool while being a faithful translation. (I probably would have gone with something like The Man They Honor In Song for Utawarerumono. It makes you go "what did he do to deserve a song?") Personally, I don't mind if the English title is radically different from the Japanese title. It's not like the reverse doesn't happen when our stuff goes over to other countries. |
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Keonyn
 Subscriber Posts: 5567 Location: Coon Rapids, MN |
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I'm with Zin5ki on this one. It's a sign of elitism or snobbishness that the die-hard fans latch on to in an attempt to set themselves above casual fans. It's not uncommon in just about any fandom, there's always a bit of ego involved for the fans who take their fandom very seriously. I'm sure there's also a purists take involved as well, although often times the track of that train of thought leads you right back to the elitism camp.
To be honest, I'm horrible with the Japanese names. They just don't make any sense to me, and I get them mixed up constantly. I'm sure if I put in a concentrated effort to improve, I probably could. But I'm not one of those elitists, and it's not a big enough deal to me to bother since anime is just one fandom I follow among many others. |
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Ohoni
Posts: 3421 |
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Personally, I'm one of those that hates seeing Zero no Tsukaima as "Familiar of Zero". "Mushshi" is much cleaner than "Mushi Master". It just sounds much weaker as a title. "Seirei no Moribito" is much better than "Guardian of the Spirit". I prefer "Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu" over "The Melancoly of Haruhi Suzumiya", although I refer to both as simply "Haruhi" in passing. I prefer "Naruto Shippuden" to "Naruto: Hurricane Chronicles". I also do like the sound of Hagane no Renkenjutsushi, but I do tend to call it "FMA" anyways.
I think a lot of the problem lies in the English name, properly translated, often comes across as a very weak title for a show. They just lack any punch in English. Maybe they lacked punch in Japanese to Japanese speakers as well, but I don't need to know that sort of thing. Also, if you take the stance that all titles should be translated, then ALL titles should be translated. Zero no Tsukaima should instead become "Familiar of Rei". Bleach should become "Hyohakuzai". "Fairy Tail" would become "Yousei Shippo". There are a very few series where I have no problem with translated titles, such as "Shijō Saikyō no Deshi Kenichi", which is more often known as "History's Strongest Desciple Kenichi", but it has several other translations, including "The Mightiest Disciple Kenichi", and even the lamest "Kenichi the Mightiest Disciple". I tend to just call it "Kenichi". There's a reason Japanese people tend to condense the titles of their own shows. I really think that US anime companies would be much better served leaving the titles of shows alone, but employing the book industry practice of using huge font to emphasize key words, so for example the cover to "Zero no Tsukaima", the "Zero" could be huge, with the "no Tsukaima" beneath it in a much smaller font, so that the longer word takes up the same horizontal space. |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18435 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Clearly we are not going to see eye-to-eye on this issue as a whole, so I'm not going to get into a debate with you about most of this. I will agree with your later point that some titles sound weak or uncertain when translated, and that those should be left alone. However, I'm curious as to exactly why you think the original Japanese name is better in the case I've bolded above. The English name is not only fabulous and has a nice flow but also encompasses the underlying theme of the series. (Haruhi's melancholy, and how dangerous it can be, is an important recurring story element.) Frankly, I don't see anything objectionable about it at all. Or is this just purely a "personal preference" case? |
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Ohoni
Posts: 3421 |
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One, Suzumiya Haruhi sounds better and is more accurate than Haruhi Suzumiya, and rings better at the begining of the title than at the end. Two, "The Melancholy of" anyone is just a soft title, and at best sounds like an emo arthouse film destined for anemic box office and perhaps an Oscar nod of they're lucky, not a hillariously strange comedy series. It just sounds better in Japanese, an the lack of English meaning in the title is actually an improvement over it having meaning in the English title. |
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