Forum - View topicNext Forum Tournament: Voting.
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18589 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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My personal definition would be that the character in question has to be regularly prominent in actually performing action scenes. Thus I would certainly count Van or Allen from Visions of Escaflowne as an action hero but not Hitomi; she certainly affects events more than most characters but doesn't actually do that much herself. If we had a more basic "Best Hero/Heroine" tournament, though, then I'd choose her over either of the others.
Alucard from Hellsing is one I'd want to see in a "Best Action Hero" tournament just to see how far he would go. I think he certainly has enough action chops to qualify but wouldn't probably last past round 2, 3 at most.
In my personal opinion (and again, this is something that would mostly be left up to individuals to decide), a top-rate action hero/heroine would regularly be integrally involved in action scenes, and would be quite impressive in said scenes, but would also have to have more substance than just as a fighter. An interesting personality would have to be there, too, as well as merits beyond just being able to kick someone's butt. Kamina from Gurren Lagann is a superior example of a male action hero for me. Not only does he fight and do a lot, and do it impressively and with great spirit and determination, but he also has a lively and enjoyable personality. He is also a highly inspirational figure and (most importantly for me) he strives to make those around him better, especially Simon. For me, that he's so much of a badass that he's comfortable subsuming his personal glory to see Simon succeed speaks volumes about his merits as an action hero. On the female side, the merits of Motoko from the GITS franchise should be obvious (smart, sexy, can dish it out impressively well in the physical or cyber realms), so I'll go with a bit less standard choice - Honoka, the title character from The Third: The Girl With The Blue Eye. Known as the Sword Dancer, she is nearly indomitable in melee combat and well-skilled in armored suit combat. While capable of mightily powerful/flashy moves, she normally fights in a focused, efficient style that's all the more impressive because it's so rare to see in anime titles. Practical in deed and poetic in soul, she also has an inherently caring nature that ultimately proves just as important in the story as her combat abilities. Although she can solve most problems with force, she understands when that's not the best option. I guess what I'm saying is that, by my definition, the best action heroes are ones that can be bad-asses when they need to be but offer the viewer dimensions and depth beyond just that. That's why I'd insist on Naruto being part of the tournament but probably wouldn't vote for him past the second round.
Okay, that's a lot more specific, but maybe too much so. Do you honestly think we could come up with 128 such characters? Even if we could, I think you'd see a handful of elite candidates amongst a vast pool of mediocre (at best) options. Could we even find 32 such characters that would be truly worthy of advancing as far as the third round? Besides, that tournament would be no contest. No one would beat Dark Schneider from Bastard!!, a character who is a massively arrogant, conceited prick but can back every ounce of it up with action and power and even at one point spoiler[literally rips his own heart out in order to save a woman he cares about, and eventually even manages to come back from that.] Not even Alucard or Kamina can match that. 
JesuOtaku brought up a good point about the personal attachment. While these ideas might be fine in concept, in execution they wouldn't be discussion-worthy enough and I can't see people getting passionate enough about them. I would also add that we definitely want to avoid an option that's spoiler-intensive (that became a major issue in the Most Evil Character tournament). "Best Setting" is a much more interesting option, as that's much more debate-worthy, but it brings up certain technical and organizational issues. I'd prefer to stick with a character-based format. |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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So, I can reasonably assume that support for a "Most Heroic Tournament" is rather, uhh, weak at the moment. But I'm not going to give up. If there's going to be a vote, then naturally there's going to be two choices, so that people have something to vote against. So Key, I would appreciate it if you would put it down as a contender (once the brainstorming session is over, at least).
The trouble is, I want to promote my choice; you know, campaign on it's behalf. But I have no idea on how to do that, without coming over as pushy, underhanded, overbearing, crazed, or a weird stalker. Or simultaneously all of them. Hmmm. |
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Randall Miyashiro
 Posts: 2451 Location: A block away from Golden Gate Park |
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With all of the talk about L and Light and their battle of wits I wonder if a most intelligent tournament would be in order. This would bring about the goofy yet brilliant scientist types as well as the cooler quick witted types. The list could contain characters like Aramaki, Master Keaton, and Washu.
I think this tournament would generate some great debates since we can remind each other of specific times when the characters displayed their brilliance and applaud the writers involved. |
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Aylinn
 Posts: 1684 |
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However, if it will not be limited to much it shouldn't be so problematic I myself can think of a fairly large number of non-human characters, for example: Hermes from Kino no Tabi Horo from Spice and Wolf Hikaru from Figure 17 Sai from Hikaru no Go Hanyuu from Higurashi no Naku Koro ni Kai Pino from Ergo Proxy Deedlit from Record of Lodoss War Tima from Metropolis Arcueid from Shingetsutan Tsukihime Chrno from Chrno Crusade Xellos from Slayers Next/Try/Revolution Ahiru from Princess Tutu Edel from Princess Tutu Dung Beetle from Bokurano Keiki from Juuni Kokuki Enki "Rokuta" from Juuni Kokuki Pai from 3x3 Eyes Miyu from Vampire Princess Miyu Sesshoumaru from Inu Yasha Kaname from Vampire Knight Key from Key the Metal Idol so I don't think it would be that difficult to do.
This is an interesting idea. It would be amusing to see how well characters such as Lloyd can do. Last edited by Aylinn on Fri Sep 05, 2008 8:54 am; edited 1 time in total |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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I personally am dubious of such a tournament. What happens when L meets Light? Can you say "Locksville"? People are just so opinionated on the subject (including yours truly) that it could well be a recipe for disaster. Besides, I forget which, but a moderator locked a "Most Intelligent Character" (or something along those lines) thread, saying it was too subjective and open to flame wars. Tried to search for it, but it seems to have been moved to the "trash" forum. Oh well. |
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DerekTheRed
 Posts: 3544 Location: ::Points to hand:: |
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Human and humane are different words. Your list, Aylinn, are humans (I don't think Xellos is humane).
Add this to the ideas that I like. However, I think it might be better described as "Greatest Mastermind" or something. Mamo (Secret of Mamo) comes to mind when you said most intelligent, and rightly so, because in that movie he had been collecting knowledge for millennia and was the most intelligent being in existence. I know that isn't what you were going for.
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Aylinn
Posts: 1684 |
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You are right it was a stupid mistake  Of course I was thinking of non-human not non-humane
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rainbowcourage
 Posts: 1216 Location: what is commonly known as "hell week" |
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So it sounds like "best action hero" is the best compromise at the moment, as it incorporates badasses and people you can respect, but calls for fighting skill. Not just being the protagonist of a series.
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JacobC
ANN Past Staff
 Posts: 3728 Location: SoCal |
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Actually, yeah, I came up with 128 based only on anime that I'VE seen. The first 45 took me eight minutes to rattle down real fast. It's a REALLY common archetype in anime. Maybe the definition WAS too specific for an anti-hero tourney. (I'll stop using the word badass because it does make the idea sound shallow and it's not.) Here's a more basic definition: A (somewhat) good character who does really bad things and it all seems justified to a loving audience. Seriously, there's a million great characters like that. Also, apart from the fact that I need to watch Bastard! now, (  ) I don't think such a character would automatically win this tournament. It's not "Who's the biggest douche that's not technically evil." As in the Evil Character contest, (and a potential Action Hero contest,) they'd have to be emotionally complex, likable, understandable, and good butt-kickers. Which of the yin-yang angsty souls is most FASCINATING, not who has the gnarliest attitude and violent tendencies. That would be boring.
Oh, yeah. I was just jealous that you got to say "biggest badass" before me. It's fun to say. (type)
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marie-antoinette
 Posts: 4136 Location: Ottawa, Canada |
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I suppose there are more non-humans than I thought, but to be honest there probably aren't that many who I feel very strongly about, except perhaps for most of the cast of Wolf's Rain. Whereas with Best Duo, there are tons of options that I really enjoy, because as I said most series have at least one good one which means you have a lot more options than you would have with non-humans, which makes participating in the tournament more exciting, at least IMO.
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Dorcas_Aurelia
 Posts: 5344 Location: Philly |
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Are we changing the premise here? Sure, there's a lot of common ground between badass and antihero, but there is a distinction. Most Shonen Jump protagonists are badasses and not antiheroes, while someone like Shinji Ikari is an antihero who is most definitely not badass.
The thing about Dark Schneider is that we're told repeatedly that he's evil, but nothing he actually does supports those claims, and most of his actions straight up contradict the notion. |
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abunai
Old Regular
 Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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You've got it the wrong way around. An anti-hero is someone who lacks the nobility and high aspirations of a hero, and has a host of imperfections of a moral nature -- imperfections that might easily have qualified him as a villain. Nevertheless, this person acts on the side of good, and becomes heroic by deed, more than by nature. In other words: an anti-hero is someone who isn't heroic, but winds up (sometimes against his will, sometimes ostensibly for pay, but always with the undercurrent that maybe he really is a nice guy, after all) doing the same stuff that a genuine hero would do. In other (other) words: A bad guy who does good. A fine example from literature and film is any tough, hard-drinking, dame-slapping private eye as written by Dashiell Hammett or Raymond Chandler, and played by Humphrey Bogart. - abunai |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18589 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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I agree with Dorcas_Aurelia here. I think you're muddling definitions and, by extension, proclaiming more characters as "anti-heroes" than who really are anti-heroes. On a related point: doesn't being emotionally complex kinda contradict being a bad-ass? Anyway, I'm going to be gone for most of the weekend, so I might not be posting much (or at all) until Sunday evening. After the NFL game Sunday night I'll look at what people have been posting here, make a list of the most-discussed and most-supported ideas, and then we'll put them to a vote. |
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JacobC
ANN Past Staff
Posts: 3728 Location: SoCal |
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Eeeeeeeh, okay. So if I look at what everyone's saying here, I've basically overgeneralized much and combined two terms that mean the exact opposite of each other, right?
An anti-hero would be a self-serving shady devil who assists the side of good and is therefore accepted as a good guy (even if the character had ulterior motives.) Read, Alucard or Inu-Yasha, maybe, along with this Dark Schneider gent. A badass character is really just anyone that kicks butt, but by the more intelligence-friendly definition we've adopted, it's likely to be someone with perfectly good intentions who carries them out in gunblazes, hellfire and deception. (Otherwise they'd be "evil" rather than "cool badass.") Read, Spike or Gene Starwind, maybe, along with the newer Shonen Jump heroes, like Ichigo. So you can have one or the other but not both? Hmmmmm. *looks on experimental list* It looks like I put both kinds of characters on it. Heh heh Is it too confusing to have a tournament like that where either the character's motives are good and their actions are bad OR their motives are selfish/bad and their actions are good? I think its easy to combine those murky character types, but if we must separate them when voting, we could....they just go hand in hand to me. Last edited by JacobC on Fri Sep 05, 2008 3:34 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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DerekTheRed
Posts: 3544 Location: ::Points to hand:: |
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Well, I feel like I should step in here and try to defend my idea of what a Badass is, as it seems to be more based on personal taste rather than a proven archetype, like the antihero. [ANN plug]For an in-depth study of all things Badass, become a subscriber and check out the Badassery Thread in the Community Forums[/ANN Plug]
I consider "Badass" to be defined by power, with 2 major incarnations. Firstly, a character who is so powerful, yet does not show it or has an outward appearance of a weakling is often a Badass. See, Suitengou in Speed Grapher, Vash in Trigun or Xellos in Slayers. More particularly, the moment where it is revealed that they hold great power is a defining moment in their Badassery. (This is my favorite aspect of Badassedness, and kind of what I had intended for the tournament to be based on. I more often think of moments like in Slayers spoiler[When we see Xellos completely destroy thousands of Golden Dragons in one wave of his finger during the War of the Monsters' Fall] The other is when a character is so confident in their abilities or strength that they willingly throw themselves into danger, or to a lesser extent, when they knowingly continue on past their limits toward an almost certain death. Rei does not count here, because the way I see it, the merely places no value on her life. Vash does it often though, as does Claire in Claymore. (Teresa is pretty Badass too.) And regarding the word "Badass," I think it's an awesome word, but I understand that some might be opposed to it, so I wouldn't mind if it were made more PC. |
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