Forum - View topic

Do you want to learn Japanese?

legendfunk wrote:

I guess I'll have to learn it somehow if I want to live there. How did you learn it, abunai?

When I originally decided to learn Japanese, I took classes. This was at the mercantile academy in Copenhagen, so the teaching was largely business-oriented. After the initial couple of years, I needed no further classes. Once you have the basics, the rest can be self-taught; this is true of any language. It helps to have someone to ask questions, though, when you hit a thorny spot.

I should point out to many of you who plan to learn Japanese by yourself, that you absolutely need to beware of anime as a source material. The style used in anime is not regular Japanese, it is a theatrical style. Relying exclusively on it in everyday conversation will make you look like a fool. If you want to learn Japanese, anime is a fun supplement, but it's better to watch Japanese TV talk shows, news, and that sort of thing. That is more likely to provide you with a command of everyday Japanese. There's a lot of this sort of stuff floating around on the 'net, so it's not exactly difficult to find.

Fusionoid wrote:

I don't think that there is anything wrong with wanting to learn Japanese just for the purpose of watching Anime or reading Manga. Just be sure not to let it take over your life.

Quite so.

Fusionoid wrote:

abunai wrote: Hmm. Well, again, yes and no. Australia hasn't really been behaving like the poster boy for ethnic tolerance, in recent years. You would be reffering to the Cronulla riots?

That, among other things -- I view the Cronulla riots as more of a symptom of wider issues. In particular, the reaction to immigration and the systematic institutional discrimination against Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people. Mind you, Australia is far from alone in discriminating against non-white, non-Christian immigrants, and against native populations. My own native Denmark has by no means a perfect record in this regard.

- abunai

Heh, so that it would be like foreigners trying to talk like Shakespeare?

You're from Denmark? Media here likes to make a BIG, unnecessary fuss about our <cough>"Princess",cough cough> in the Danish hierarchy.

FYI, the Cronulla riots were the culmination of a lot of racial issues in Australia. In Sydney, much of the racism from the white side comes from their view on the integration of other cultures here. Some people believe that the large foreign establishment which is at its strongest in specific suburbs is a sign of a specific culture "marking their territory" in a specific suburb. This idea is one of the barriers to multiculturalism here. Another thing about this is Cronulla is in one of the most, say, "homogenous" regions of Sydney.

legendfunk wrote:

Heh, so that it would be like foreigners trying to talk like Shakespeare?

Well, yes, for some dialects. Anybody who watches too many ninja series would sound like that, de gozaru. But for regular anime speech patterns, the effect would be more like foreigners coming to Australia and expecting to get away with speaking "Crocodile Dundee English". Be aware that many of the speech patterns you observe in anime are a theatrical version of "youth dialect", which generally means that people are unconscionably rude and uncouth. A lot of the speech patterns you see in anime would get you ostracized in polite Japanese society. Sure, you can get away with referring to yourself as ore among younger Japanese (I do), but among older generations, you'd better roll out the old boku or watashi, if you want them to talk to you. Etcetera, etcetera.

Hmmm, I was wondering how people could refer to each other as "anata" and "kimi" in such conversation. Pretty much earns you a slap in the face.

... use the person's name and a honorific. Not adding the honorific will get you in trouble. This is called yobisute, and is only permissible between very intimate friends or lovers.

abunai wrote:

... use the person's name and a honorific. Not adding the honorific will get you in trouble. This is called yobisute, and is only permissible between very intimate friends or lovers.

So, in normal conversation, you would always talk to your co-worker by using "-san" as in "Tohru-san". Even after ten years you would still use "-san"? Or in the west is it okay to drop the "-san" at times? For that matter, do Japanees that work here in the USA just put up with us droping the use of honorifics?

What if you met the children of your co-worker? Would it be right to call them Ken-kun and Maki-chan? I would think leaving off the honorific when speaking to the female child would then put you in a very bad light.

I think someone mentiond that a safe bet is to always add "-san" when you didn't know what to add. Would there be times when (in normal conversation) it would not be right to add "-san"?

Last question, what if you were meeting someone important like the Consul General? Say his family name is Ogi, then address him as Ogi-san?

Thanks for any advice on this. All these names are fiction BTW. But I am wondering if I made a mistake when I spoke to the childern of my co-worker a few years ago.

Yes, or you could do what is usually done with people who have a professional rank: address him not by name, but by title: souryouji-san (総領事さん). In general, nobody will expect you to get something as complex as this right, and it will usually elicit a chorus of oohs and aahs and "Nihon-go jouzu desune!"