Forum - View topicWhat is anime to you?
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Anonymous099
Posts: 5 |
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This was today's Ask John on animenation.com. I've found this paragraph the most interesting.
Bandai Visual USA approached the American consumer market with the assumption that there was a community of American anime fans that perceived anime the way Japanese fans do, which turned out to be not the case. Contemporary American anime consumers have adopted a strict perception that anime is merely an entertainment commodity. American consumers, by and large, have discarded all sense of the intangible value of anime. Japanese specialty stores in Akihabara are able to exclusively deal in fan created art, comics, and computer games because Japanese otaku consumers understand that the price they pay for anime goods reflects the value of the intellectual and artistic content contained within the packaging. Japanese consumers are willing to pay for an anime DVD because they know that they’re partially paying to own and support the anime itself. American consumers, on the other hand, seem to predominantly feel that anime has little or no intangible value and the worth of an anime DVD is measured by the physical properties of its packaging and the amount of entertainment the anime provides. But the creativity and the effort to hand draw all of the animation within the anime doesn’t have any intrinsic monetary value to most contemporary American consumers. Do you guys agree with John, or has he missed the mark? Here is a link to all of John's answer. http://www.animenation.net/blog/2008/06/27/ask-john-why-doesnt-bandai-care-about-american-anime-fans/#more-12990 |
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Eruanna
 Posts: 451 Location: Canada |
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Heres the thing. Each and every anime show is different.
Can anime be artistic, meaningfull and intelligent? Absolutly. Can anime be nothing more then pumped-out-as-fast-as-you-can pulp? Absolutly. To me, depending on what show Im watching, anime is either just entertainment, something to turn my brain off for a while with, or it can be a mental excersize. Im defonatly not gonna be zoning out to watch Ergo Proxy or Serial Experiments Lain, but Im not going to pretend that Im getting anything 'deep' out of Shugo Chara! or the lastest episode of Bleach. And then there are the shows that are somewhere in the middle, encorperating both an intellegent thought process and deeper meanings, but also good ol' fun value as well. (I hope nobody will get too upset if I humbly suggest that Full Metal Alchemist pulled that off rather well?) So while I would agree that yes, anime is an art form, and it is defonatly something that people pour creativity and craftmanship into..... its also not false to remember that it is, in fact, an entertainment industry. Really its both. |
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khimru
Posts: 52 |
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But to say that "ungrateful American consumers" can't appreciate good anime is oversimplification. People agree that Gunbuster is nice show and BV edition is nice to have but... not if you can add 10% and get Evangelion instead. Sure - it's not as nicely packaged and does not have as many extras but it's 26 TV show vs 6 OVA! And there are dub as well... Can you honestly say that Gunbuster includes almost as much "intrinsic monetary value" as Evangelion? |
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DuelLadyS
 Posts: 1705 Location: WA state |
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Just becuase I think the Mona Lisa is fine art, doesn't mean I'm going to spend millions of dollars on a hand-painted replica by the finest re-creation artist in France- specially since a few dollar could land me a nice poster-print of it no problem.
I don't think Americans nessecarily don't recoginze the value of the creative energies put into these works... I simply think we have a different perspective on how creative talents should be compensated. We know that the folks who make the anime are not doing it for the sake of creating art, or for the betterment of mankind... they are being paid. They agreed to a certain amount of money to perform a certain task in the creation of the show. By the time the product gets to us, they've recieved their paychecks- it's over for them. We're just giving money back to the corporation, who's out to make a profit, the amount of which will affect how much they pay for the next creative project. Our judgement of buying anime, therefore, does come based more strongly on the quality and price of the product offered. Case in point: the Code Geass LE bundle was TRSI's number one item last week, despite not being on any sale other than the usual quarter-off pre orders. It's an incredible value for the price, and a high-quality show, therefore it's doing well. BV expected to fetch a similar price for less than 1/8th the content of the Geass box... is it really any wonder that no one thought the company should be making that kind of profit? it certainly doesn't help that Americans are kind of a thrifty, selfish bunch to begin with... you'd be surprised how many people pitch fits at me at work when I can't give them a coupon for 40% off their 2-dollar item. I've done returns on things that cost less than a dollar. If someone comes around and tells you to spend 4 times as much money on something than you normally would, for the sole purpose of benifiting someone faceless creative talent you know isn't really seeing your money (at least not directly)- you're not going to do it. And you might expect to next be asked to give your bank account number to a Nigerian prince. While the idea of a communal entertainment art world, where our dollar immedate benifit the artists is nice, there's a corporation serving as a middle man... and we tend to be more cynical (realistic?) as a result. |
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khimru
Posts: 52 |
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I do not think collectors editions were problematic - while not cheap they looked and felt rich too. But things like "Super Robot Wars" and "Galaxy Angel Rune" looked to most buyers as things of Simoun league! But Simoun had 5-6 episodes per $20 DVD where BV had 3 episodes per $50 DVD! And "8-Page Color Booklet" is not quite enough to justify three times more expensive price... As limited editions sale shows people are willing to pay 1.5-2 price for really good edition. A lot of DVD+Artbox bundles go "out of print" in hurry. But 3 times the price for marginally better edition? That's too much... P.S. Of course there guys of camp "even good shows don't deserve my money - only great ones do" (as this post clearly shows) and even ones who are proud to say that they watched hundreds of shows and never spent even penny on DVD - but that's different story... |
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Kruszer
 Posts: 7995 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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I don't agree with him no, because I'm a practical person who knows a scam when he sees it and doesn't like getting ripped off. Selling an anime the way the Japanese do and the way BV did is a total jack. You wouldn't buy half a bottle of watter or half a song so why would one buy half a DVD when the storage capacity of the device is capable of holding a lot more? I just can't justify it. Then there's the matter of paying twice the price for half the content, it's illogical. "Giving back to the creators" and "appreciating art" are all well and good but have nothing to do with it other than being transparent excuses to milk the consumer for cash. It all depends on your view of how much is "too much" I guess.
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Top Gun
 Posts: 4864 |
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Personally, I think anyone who treats the entire spectrum of anime as some ethereal, "artistic" means of expression is just deluding themselves. Anime is a medium of entertainment, just as novels, movies, comics, TV shows, games, and (more relevantly) American animation are entertainment media. Within each of these categories, there are works that are universally held up as "high art," but those are generally outnumbered and out-sold by simpler works aimed at a more general audience. Anime is no exception; a series like Paranoia Agent and a series like Bleach are obviously two very different shows targeted at two very different audiences. Anyone who slaps the label "art" on the ladder is, to put it bluntly, full of it.
When you're talking about cost, the bottom line is that Japan's DVD market is grossly overpriced compared to what we're used to over here. Even if you do bring "art" into the equation, the fact remains that one can buy a film-festival arthouse movie for the exact same price (and perhaps even cheaper) as the most recent Marvel adaptation. Both are films, and therefore, both are priced comparably. Compare this to the price-per-episode count of American TV releases, and you see exactly why Bandai Visual's strategy bombed so thoroughly. |
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WhtHawk
 Posts: 25 |
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America is not Japan? How can this be!?
Economics, ideals, and culture need to be translated just like languages and time zones. "Otaku" makeup a niche market, even in Japan. The catch is that both the niche and the culture are close and well understood by the local businesses. As for the US market, the age of the more traditional "Otaku" market, the ones who support the market for the sake of supporting the market, are an ever smaller percentage of the total anime market outside of Japan. Most everything which has been said about the US market making purchasing decision based on specific entertainment (Entertainment Value per Dollar spent) is correct. I miss the fact that there is not any hand drawn animation in the US and will pay extra but within limits. It is easy to see where the general media culture disconnects exist when looking at television showing schedules. In the US, it is easy to catch a re-run. If you miss a show you won't have any problem catching an episode you missed, frequently before the next new episode airs. Thus, sales of things like DVD Recorders in the US are lack-luster at best. However, in Japan DVD Recorders are much more developed and many times more popular. The reason, missing a show means waiting for an entire season to enter syndication or for the DVD release. Personally, I don't see importation of the economics surrounding the Japanese market to be a viable business strategy when the media it-self is not ever directly translated but instead localized. |
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lesterf1020
 Subscriber Posts: 295 Location: Trinidad and Tobago |
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I think everyone here has just proved John's point. The American audience does not see the value of anime the same as the Japanese and base their decisions on entertainment value for money instead of support for the creators of the medium. It is not that the American market does not support the creators or anime, it is simply not what determines if they will buy an anime at a particular price.
I am somewhere in the middle. I will pay too much for an anime I love, to support the anime, but I need value for money if I am not crazy about it. |
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TheVok
Posts: 613 Location: North York, Ontario, Canada |
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Another factor that will always come into play is that if you're a fan in Japan, you know the work is being created for you, in your language and to your demographic's general interests; but if you're a fan in the U.S., it's not being created for you, nor will it ever.
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Crawly
Posts: 204 |
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I really don't think the Japanese see buying the discs as supporting the creators, either. The dvd market in Japan is vastly different than it is over here. A $50 disc with only two episodes is normal to them, regardless of the content of the disc. It's what they've been trained to pay for the hobby, just as we've been trained to expect a certain price point for a certain amount of content. I guarantee you that if the Japanese anime fan was accustomed to buying 4 episodes of anime for $20 and then someone came along and said, "It's all now going to be $50 for 2 episodes," they'd react the same way we did -- some would still buy because they're die hard and have the income, but most wouldn't. They'd just content themselves with recording it off the tv... |
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fullmetal biologist
 Posts: 61 Location: north carolina, usa |
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I think that good entertainment is an art form and I am willing to pay for it. I don't really make a distinction between American, Japanese or other cultural entertainment. If I value it and think it's well done I will spend the money for it. I might even buy art books, limited editions, etc. But I reserve the right to judge what I think is quality or not. Not all anime is great just like not all American cartoons are up to Pixar's standards. And I am not going to buy cards and toys for series that seem to continue just to make more money.
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Ryujin-kun
 Posts: 1 Location: Canada |
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Anime is absolute...Cooler than real life anyway...
It helps me "escape" from the boring,shattered and predictable world... When I read or watch anime,It refreshes my brain...And some manga has some great philosophy... |
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Kruszer
Posts: 7995 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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Exactly what I was going to say, I agree. People are people reguardless of culture, and economics is a universal language. Charge them more than they're used to and there will definitely be a lot of people who would complain about it. |
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Shadowrun20XX
 Posts: 1936 Location: Vegas |
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