Forum - View topicJellyfish Can't Swim in the Night (TV).
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Piglet the Grate
 Posts: 717 Location: North America |
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Our best hope is that the exact relationship between Mahiru and Kano is left ambiguous until a Season 2, but of course there is no guarantee we will get a second cour. |
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 24000 |
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Sadly for me, something has happened with respect to my feelings for this show that I always hope won't: I've run out of caring. My hope always is that my interest in a show will continue right to the final episode, but in this case, it hasn't. I can't point to a specific reason for this, it's just a state that exists for me. I guess one partial reason is I don't love this, "I don't love myself" theme that seems to afflict virtually all the girls. I think it would have been fine for one of the four to go through it, but it's such a fixture for both Mahiru and Kiui that it just feels too much for me. Only one episode to go and I'm thankful.
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15545 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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Isn't the plot mostly about finding what they do love about themselves? That is why the OP has them all embracing their younger versions of themselves. Such that Kiui/Nox didn't say they inherently hate themselves, they don't love the version of themself they have to be to perform the identity of Kiui, but they love the masculine identity of Nox. It is why I am leaning on them likely being transgender, they were very up front of liking that identity. In a sense the focus is on gender euphoria of gender dysphoria, which I find personally relatable. Mahiru's realisation was rediscovering what it is about her art that she loved in the first. I am not sure if you problem, Blood-, is on what might be self hating aspect, but I think it is a pretty positive story of her finding that old spark rather than needing to be held to what others might consider the technically good. |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 24000 |
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@ DP - yes, to be more specific, Mahiru doesn't hate herself, she doesn't love her art (or didn't). And with Kiui the show has thoroughly muddied the waters... is she gender dysmorphic? Does she not like the fact she stopped going to school? So I used shorthand because emotionally speaking it's kind of the same thing to me: "there's something about me I don't really like" as a theme. My loss of interest in the show isn't particularly tied into anything the show is doing wrong... it's just a personal reaction of not vibing with what's going on.
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Animegomaniac
Posts: 4134 |
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In the review thread, someone brought up the hikkimori aspect of the character. Why are people fixated on the "what" rather than the "why"? "Is Kiui upset they're no longer comfortable going to school?" "Is Kiui upset they're no longer comfortable going outside?" Yes but the reason for both, the root cause for both is the issue and not whatever that causes them to do in response. I should be glad we're finally past the whole "cringe" thing but it feels like people want simple answers resolved in single episodes. Me: Step one should be therapy, at the very least finding other people who can relate and express. Other people: What's the point of Kohaku then if the problem is all over now? |
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Eilavel
Posts: 114 |
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Thats absolutely not what I want, although its what I expect from this show. The thing with Kiui is that her issue has now been confirmed as being something to do with gender identity. Its been done obliquely in episode 11. It seems unlikely its going to be addressed much further given the major arcs to be resolved in the last episode, so all we've got in 11 episodes is that they've gotten to the stage of sort of stating its an issue. Why were we faffing around learning to ride motorbikes when we had much more interesting issues like that on the table? This could easily have happened much earlier in the season and then Kiui could have been explored in more depth, whether we got a final resolution or not. Instead its hinted at, then revealed, then maybe a 1-2 minute resolution in the final episode. Its such a weird way to do it.[/i] |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 24000 |
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I agree. And like I say they also muddied the waters with Kiui with this whole notion of a person who was a dynamo in early grades and then swiftly collapsed like a broken card table the second some people at her new school didn't do cart wheels of joy over her interests. It's all very odd. It's like they sort of liked the idea of dealing with gender dysmorphia but just couldn't bring themselves to fully embrace it.
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Eilavel
Posts: 114 |
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Yes, its quite clumsy as even if Kiui presented as male her behavior (and at that age, juvenile interests) would only have been somewhat less socially problematic. Which, to be fair, Kiui also acknowledges in her speech.
But thats the problem; a lot the issues are internal, but whenever Kiui is forward in the story its almost totally through her relationships with others, which doesn't really center the interesting parts. I mean, I think its a good thing to explore; Kiui is more interesting with than without it. Its just a shame it wasn't given more time and space.[/i] |
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Piglet the Grate
Posts: 717 Location: North America |
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Matter of opinion. I would watch a show that was about nothing other than motorcycle training as it is a fascinating subject (and even more fun to participate in), but understand that few others feel the same way. |
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Eilavel
Posts: 114 |
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I'm not objecting to the topic per se, I'm objecting to it as pure filler in the context of this shows character arcs and focus. |
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DuskyPredator
Posts: 15545 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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Episode 12 (finale)
I guess that I don't really know what to think. I guess that I feel a bit off about several bits. Like that there is a reconciliation of sorts that Kano's mother cares about her, rather than all of the red flags, and actually using Kano's name in the credits rather than the one the mother built is like the least required. That Mero had like a sudden shift in being the one bringing Kano to her senses, it looked like they had a reconciliation, but none of it looks like the core problems with Mero were touched. And absolutely the aspects that still don't feel resolved, such as anything involving Kano's father, who I am pretty sure is the man who saw the redone mural, but the show never really explained what was going on there. The biggest form of disappointment is the queerness, or at least the parts that it seemed they refused to define. That conversation Kano and Mahiru had on the phone really is the we were going to hear about the kiss, and for all the subtext, it is there, I think they didn't even speak to each other between the fallout and when they did the escalator thing. A really good representation of this might just be those screenshots of what really looks like Pride patches on Kano's beanie, but discoloured so you cannot definitively prove it. There is also always the whole Kiui/Nox thing, not entirely defined, but I kind of feel more confident there, considering the whole credits thing had them really happy at saying that Nox is their name. Taking that whole aspect and their speech to their chat at the end, it is hard to not see their story as some aspect of trans. Names really seemed to be big aspect of the show, I suppose all four of the main characters had it as part of their story. And to not be fully negative, there were some good parts of the episode, notably the JELEE concert being what Kano wanted, the credits, and the new painting of the mural. Them sitting and watching the scrolling credits reminded me of the credits to Octo Expansion, which might sound random to bring up the credits a Splatoon 2 DLC, that likely has nothing to do with this. But it was something that oddly connected to me as cathartic, it being the story of a character overcoming their programming, and just sitting with their oddball friends, following quite the musical performance, and really a celebration of messiness. I think it just happens to have connections to music, sea life, a barely disguised gay couple, a theme of gaining freedom for expression. And I was rather fond of the painting the mural scene, done in the style of a shaky phone camera, made the whole thing feel really raw of a bunch of kids (or young adults) just having fun and being goofy. I still gave it an Excellent (9/10), where although I think is a bit of a fumble, there are other aspects that have gripped my attention. |
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smurky turkey
Posts: 2400 |
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I have mixed feelings on the season as a whole. The last 3 or so episodes were very drama heavy and had little of the charm that sold me on the show in the first place (even if the show stayed as subtle as a hammer to the face the whole time). The last episode had some of that charm thankfully yet my enjoyment has dropped significantly in the past few weeks. Part of that is due to said drama feeling contrived and some characters acting in a way not in line with what we have come to learn/expect of them.
I do applaud the show for having a very strong presentation and tackling some subjects not all that common in anime. |
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Eilavel
Posts: 114 |
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- Make a show that sets up lots of character arcs and melodrama. Leave almost all of them hanging for the last episode.
- Resolve most of them by simply having it be the case that actually everyone is nice really and there weren't really any conflicts in the first place! My expectations weren't high but the finale still did not meet them. Can't help think of unfavourable comparisons to shows like a place further than the universe. Its nice it touched on less covered issues and tried to ingest modern cultural mores, but in the end it didn't really manage to take them anywhere. Most of the things it did build up, it ended in the most deflating way possible. Its not that I regret watching the show. I overall enjoyed it, it had some nice subsections and looked good at times. But it managed to be much less than the sum of its parts. |
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Animegomaniac
Posts: 4134 |
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And here I thought Yukine doxxed her daughter in public, same as when the singer of JELEE was outed as the former lead of Sunflower Dolls. Did anyone in universe or writing the story think for a moment "did we do this right?" as I'm not sure if Kano was also outed as Yukine's daughter at any point. Two were given stage names, one was given both but nothing to the one who's not only the most public but also the most likely to have angered someone... I'll just say it only takes one misguided fan to ruin things. "Heartwaming"? I didn't see that way... Overall I think the series was good but I'm worried that as an anime original, the story was given massive cuts in order to sell its later novel. On the other hand, as an anime original, it feels like the type of work to be continued.... but probably just in a later novel. |
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Edjwald
 Posts: 1385 |
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I haven't been sure how I felt about this anime and have been waiting to see how it plays out for 12 episodes. Now that I just finished the season, I'm still not sure how I feel about it.
I will say though, that for me to watch an idol anime all the way through, it has to have something going for it. It's by far my least favorite genre, mostly because of all the first episodes I abandoned that were all cutesy energy and bullshit and annoying bubble gum music that everyone treated as if it were awe inspiring. In fact, I feel about idol anime the way a lot of people feel about isekai, though I've never seen the point of getting all rabid and going out of my way to trash them at every opportunity. If people like it, well, I'm glad they have something they enjoy. In fact, one of the scenes in this show that resonated with me the most was when Mei asked the aging idol's daughter "How can it be wrong to love someone?" Of course, Mei was screaming it dramatically. Anyway, things seem to be changing a bit for idol anime, I think because of Oshi No Ko. I think it's a lot harder for idol anime to ignore the darker side of the industry now. The one thing I loved unreservedly about this anime was its visual style. There were times when I was tempted to turn the subtitles off (I'm pretty sure I can still do that on HiDive) the same way I turn the sound off when I watch a movie called Dark City. But there's enough real story going on in the dialogue that I would have missed something. The music doesn't grate on me, but it mostly leaves me meh. Not just the songs, but even most of the background music is a bit too electronicky for my tastes. I like that the characters have genuine issues and weaknesses and past decisions that haunt them. I didn't always like the way drama was slathered on those issues with a cement trowel. And more than once, characters on this show resolved all of their issues by going online and doing something embarrassing. Ta dah! I was brave and honest! Instant resolution! Going off alone to sulk and get your head together is always cowardly and bad. Airing all of your insecurities to the general public on social media is always brave and good. And look, I got likes! Crisis resolved! There's something !@$%ed up about that. I did feel like the characters' struggles were real though, and at the end of the day I did like them. Edited twice because I didn't drink enough coffee when I started this post. |
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