Forum - View topicGAME: Granblue Fantasy Relink Video Game Review
Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
Author | Message | |||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
LinkTSwordmaster
Posts: 561 Location: PA / USA |
|
|||||||
It really reminds me of the awesome Persona 5 Strikers that came out a while go - I'll defend to the death that Strikers perfectly captured everything that modern Persona has become known for while perfectly translating the dungeon-crawling, combat skills, and difficulty/challenge to the action system of a Musou game.
A lot of people have been comparing this Granblue to Monster Hunter, but the moment I saw them X > X > X > Y > Y combos, that's a Musou combat. It does it pretty well with all of its systems, and the graphics and characters are really nice. I was pleasantly surprised at how much exploring there was available right off the bat, and honestly? ...everything flows and feels pretty good. My only concerns are that the story campaign could be longer - they've apparently back-loaded a lot of the content to be online-party oriented so if you were buying this as a solo RPG with a big story, you may run a bit short. Otherwise as an action game, this doesn't quite hit the high skill ceiling that Strikers requires when you crank it up to 11, at least not as early as I would like it to. Folks that aren't typically interested in the sort of twitch skill required to frame-perfect a dodge or a Just Guard are likely going to be fine with it, but players that semi-non-seriously attempt to run a Souls game without taking hits will probably only get truly challenged if they let their gear lag a bit behind with upgrades during the story - and that's not necessarily a bad thing, I just wouldn't mind the option to push it farther. |
||||||||
ICO44
Posts: 105 |
|
|||||||
You can do every quest solo and offline. |
||||||||
WANNFH
Posts: 1863 |
|
|||||||
|
||||||||
Yune Amagiri
Posts: 1102 Location: France |
|
|||||||
Long story short : It was worth the wait.
Gameplay-wise i feel closer to a Hollow Realization, but maybe that's just because the gameplay of Narmaya, my go-to character, is close to H:R vibes. |
||||||||
b-dragon
Posts: 500 |
|
|||||||
I think I'm more harsh on the game than many- I quite like it, though.
Combat is great- the diversity of character playstyles feels great. Some I gel with, some I don't. As it should be. There are characters that get to be kinda dumb, characters that encourage awareness, more support oriented builds...good stuff. Some encounters are badly designed, I think. And that camera is...questionable sometimes. I believe we've been told they're working on it, so we'll see. The presentation is solid. I don't like Vyrn's voice, but eh. And I think the anime aesthetic will help it age well. My issues are with story and secondary systems. The story is short, repetitive, and might have a cast too large for the story- even as pared down as the "story" crew is. The secondary systems are not garbage; but they feel poorly considered. The sigils are...why I've dropped the game. Sigil gacha? Curios? Damage cap issues (and how that system renders a lot of support skills/builds irrelevant?) Most of those secondary systems are "postgame" concerns. Thats the game at its best and worst really. I'm hoping the announced updates are going to improve on what is honestly a pretty phenomenal base. |
||||||||
DKL
Posts: 1962 Location: California, USA |
|
|||||||
I do agree that it's a bit of a disservice to the combat to boil it down to mashing random buttons since the larger enemies that don't take hit stun are actually designed with interesting patterns in mind relative to what your characters can do. (also, PKP is a Bayonetta combo, so the discussion surrounding this should be more complicated than the generic combo routes) That said, there does come a point where you start to unga things (or through their hitboxes, depending on the build you have set up) when you get into the farming, but you still need to memorize the boss patterns so that you know the parts where you can dump damage into it efficiently. Things like using slowdown during its recovery after certain moves or something does wonders for DPS so that you're not in most farming fights for more than 1-3 minutes even on the highest difficulty.
Having just finished the very last quest, I can confirm that you don't need to be carried by online randos to get through all the content. As far as I can tell, online is mainly for bragging rights on the rare occasion that my Loliostro has the highest DPS in the room and the Gold Dahlia badges that can be used to trade for rare materials when the drop rate is too much for you to bear. As someone that has actually just cleared all the endgame content, I can't really say that I ever struggled. The universal character mobility is very good and the lose state is very lenient: you can mash out of the "dead" state and can even use it to skip AOE sequences if you screwed up somewhere. I didn't first try the very last quest because the AI derped and didn't answer my call for a link attack into link time during the final DPS check, but the AI in general isn't bad outside of a specific mission where you fight two bosses and the AI missed like 10-15 super and link attack calls in a row: you win the fight sure enough, but remember the experience of how it was profoundly miserable to swim through the slog of the AI not functioning correctly. (but then, maybe there's more detailed AI control outside of supers that I'm not aware of... I would not be surprised if I've somehow overlooked this given how many systems there are in this game) Now, what's actually a struggle is optimization: the economy is actually kind of miserable. Everything is expensive and the drop rates can swing about wildly.
Having just farmed the last quest a bit for Ferry's last weapon which thankfully dropped first, I feel like calling the secondary systems garbage, despite some of my enjoyment of it, would be a fair assessment if someone brought up points as to why it's just bad. I just would not be able to explain to you why some of this stuff isn't bad. The general flow of endgame is as follows (obviously, it's possible that I'm still not 100% efficient, but I try as much as possible to learn things on my own before consulting with youtube-kun): 1. Farm knick knack vouchers and curios using various recommended farms on youtube 2. Get a rare tier V sigil that has an augmented skill in it that is hopefully useful in your build (I already have War Elemental and one supplemental damage V sigil... thank god) 3. If applicable, go to the blacksmith and find out that you don't have the materials to upgrade the thing 4. Put the material in your wishlist and go farm the enemy that has it and pray for good drop rates 5. Level up the sigil like once and realize you are broke again 6. Hit level 15 with your + sigil and then move onto trying to roll for another Sigil V + thing that has trait you want... statistically speaking, people probably want it to be a damage cap up V + sigil 7. Repeat I think the issue with playing solo is that you have to farm for a complete team. So that's 4 times the amount of Damage Cap Up + sigils or whatever that I would need to optimize. And like, 4 times the amount of materials to upgrade everything and 4 times the amount of RNG hoping that the damage cap up sigil + is paired with something useful. It's absolutely obnoxious. This game is probably a lot better with a crew to run with since your DPS will be higher and you can just dump all your resources into one character. I'm trying to give my Ferry a harem, but I don't even know if this is a good team composition, so I'm probably being punished for just having fun and experimenting with the waifus I like since I'm now broke again. Also, I need to sit with it more, but I'm unsure about how I feel about the way damage cap is set up. On one hand, it seems kind of interesting to see how far you want to put it and if you can have a build that actually hits it consistently assuming you don't have all the god drops yet. On the other hand, I feel like everyone is going to just want to run level 65 damage cap and then they're endlessly chasing for a damage cap up sigil that has a secondary trait that can be used in your build, which as far as I can tell is completely random. Like, I have an idea of the type of build I want to run, but heading there feels so miserable after a point: I'm unsure of the overall game design when it revolves around me reloading a save file to redo gacha on rare pulls and then mashing a fight a bunch of times hoping I get the materials to upgrade it. The initial learning experience of getting the fight time down is fun, but it gets tedious after you learn how to do it consistently or realize you can't optimize further simply because you don't have the sigils or materials to get you where you wanna go. There's even AFK farming setups, but at that point, why even have all this bloat if people go to it to get things done. A part of me wants to experiment and see what I can come up with. But another part of me just wants to google someone's meta build since I'm probably building towards crap anyway. I wouldn't feel so bad about hitting a dead end if it wasn't such a large time sink to do so. With the amount of time I've spent on doing busywork in this game... I could have gotten better at Tekken 8, another game where you're constantly holding forward. Yet here I am. I feel like I've played more than I've played better, which I feel like is never a great feeling with regards to the mastery of a game. I'm very much ready to abandon ship for Dragon's Dogma 2, which I'm hoping has more sensible endgame progression where it doesn't take a million years to build what you want to build. Until then, I guess I'll just keep farming the last quest despite my better judgment in hopes that it drops the thing for the rest of my team... and then I get to do even more farming since I need materials to upgrade them to optimize their damage. |
||||||||
WANNFH
Posts: 1863 |
|
|||||||
Because while it's completely unnecessary to complete the game at all - the meta part for endgame if you're gonna go online, which is based around getting sigils for min-max, is a real slog that can actually take hundreds of hours from you easily because of some obnoxious game balance failures (like a very low amount of damage cap, which make you waste four slots to just improve it, instead of picking some utilities) and getting very limited sigils with completely ABYSMAL rates (something like War Elemental is a rare chance to get and there is no existing of + version of it, so it's a whole two limited slot waste - but going for Supplemental Damage V+, both of which you can only get as a random drop from the boxes? Now that's a friggin lightning-in-a-bottle chance if you're not cheating the system (and even if you do that - it's close to ~0.01% by pure estimates), not to mention the second substat is supposed to be at least good, as people have zero need for something like Fast Learner with it - as at that point of the game their main characters are already maxed). And now you don't want to imagine going through that pain all more than once if you want to build another character, let alone doing it 4 times for a full party. |
||||||||
DKL
Posts: 1962 Location: California, USA |
|
|||||||
Like, I understand the misery of the grind...
But the combat so hot though and keeps me coming back for more: (boss spoilers) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjJe84Pesyo While it seems like I'm being a monkey and tapdancing on this dude, because I currently don't have enough DPS to kill it before the first overdrive activation, I actually have a setup that allows me to get past the entire sequence where the boss starts spazzing out by putting it into break before it's able to do anything in overdrive that drags the farming out. Stuff like this indicates to me that, beneath the mind-numbing numbers grind, there are some pretty good action game fundamentals that are interesting and worth digging into.... though this may or may not be negated by the fact that people are really just trying to set up AFK farming, which isn't too interesting to me to do since this isn't really an automation game where I'm using automation as a game mechanic that I get better at. Also, I can't do cool combos when AFK. (though maybe having an efficient farming team is interesting, I'm not sure... but this isn't the main thing I want to do in an action game where I get to punch people) |
||||||||
Яeverse
Posts: 1147 Location: Indianapolis |
|
|||||||
Biggest flaw of the game is actually a flaw of the main Granblue Fantasy story in that the actual quest towards Estalucia is kind of bland and dull. It just finds itself in the samey typical type of story someone can typically craft. Most of the interesting characters dont even show up in the main story (MSQ).
Where Granblue Fantasy shines are in all the side stories/event storys, like its why the Knights are so praised since their story is compelling (theres like ten parts to the Feendrache - Dragon Knights (Vane, Lan-chan, Seig, Percy, + Chickadees), main story they have little to no role. Also just sad some of my favorite characters (Albert - Skynights/Thunderswift Lord, Yurius, and other members of the kingdom of Levin), and Shiro/ Nicolas (Robomi events), and Feather and Ayer are not in the extended games. Would have preferred the game and other GBF extended media focused on these storylines versus the main story which is still ongoing and we only get like a handful of story updates a year. Even the more compelling MSQ characters arent in this Cain, Loki, Fenrir... |
||||||||
LinkTSwordmaster
Posts: 561 Location: PA / USA |
|
|||||||
Oof, big RIP to Hyrule Legends and P5 Strikers, I gotta wonder how many people actually played those games outside of journalist-difficuty mode. You don't unlock the good stuff in Legends if you even take damage, and Strikers enemies can drop your party in one or two big hits before you even realise your HP was in danger. I have yet to be seeing the high-skill level players saying that bosses on Granblue are so dangerous, and there a lot of folks even in this forum thread saying they didn't really struggle in their time with it either. The Bayonetta-like system that lets you retain your combo input progression when dodging in Granblue is certainly a welcomed QoL that even Strikers didn't have, but it's real fascinating seeing the word "random" being tossed around when Gran and Djeeta literally have Link's Legends moveset - a C1 hold gives you a spin attack on Link, Gran, and Djeeta, and then Link's C2 is Gran and Djeeta's Launch and Air Combo. Compare Link's to Gran's swordplay . That Gran player sure must be hitting them buttons randomly... Girahim's tag&AoE mechanics also seem eerily similar to Rosetta's slower Plant AoE . As such, if you're having fun with Granblue Relink combat, Hyrule Legends is a lot of fun too, even if it's on an older console and lacking Relink's QoL. Hopefully the popularity of Granblue gets more games like this made since it's really rough trying to show of games that originally popped up during the PS3/WiiU era in 2024. |
||||||||
DKL
Posts: 1962 Location: California, USA |
|
|||||||
Sorry, I got wrapped up in the quotes and was under the impression you were insinuating that Relink combat didn't involve deliberate strategies. I did not realize that the original post meant it as a compliment, which I guess is a bit of a snafu on my part since you were talking up Persona Musou and I should have connected the dots. For reference, I have a very surface level understanding of musou combat: I was under the impression that the move lists were comprehensive, which is cool, but I have no reference as to what encounter design is like once higher tier enemies come in since I have not played enough, not necessarily because I don't want to, but because I was in the vortex of always putting it off since I didn't know which one to play. The one people seem to really like is Warriors Orochi 3 from what I could tell and I was going to get it, but it always fell through the cracks. It's on sale right now on Steam, so I'll go ahead and just get it. They have a million of these, so I just want to go with the one people seem to like the most and will branch out from there once I get my feet wet. That said, the video you posted is funny to me because I'm under the impression the guy just gave me the game winning combos for the majority of situations: something to zone the AI with since they don't block it due to how the AI is designed and then something to melt bosses with. THAT SAID... if you thought these random Musou games were better than Relink, I would just ask you to describe to me what the endgame progression was like. You would have a very easy time convincing me that most things are better than what WANNFH described in his post detailing endgame meta where I played for dozens of hours only to realize I was getting funneled into a damage cap RNG build hamster wheel of endless material farming. It actually pisses me off and I don't know why I can't stop playing despite seeing the setup. I suppose this is what addiction is like. I would have preferred a straight action game with preset damage balance, but people tend to not like those since they're "short", which is funny to me since I put like a bunch of hours into stuff like Bayonetta and DMC or whatever, which have "short" campaigns. Quality over quantity. (not that I'm not interested in numbers... but the time sink involved with getting good numbers relative to what the system turns out being is not very desirable to me the more that I actually sit there and think about it) Still, despite my sunk cost fallacy, I do think Relink combat is very interesting. Characters are generally designed in a way where you need to get to the end of combos in order to access a lot of their gimmicks/skills, so you are strongly incentivized to learn how to set complete strings up outside of just doing a cool looking move. Gran, for example, has that thing where you need to get to the end of a string to get fast charge on the charge attack and the level up system that powers up your skills (which tend to be the most damaging moves you can do) every time you land a combo ender (though now I wonder if this is something that would be held back by the damage cap). It really gives a lot of the interactions a lot of meaning since you get access to the highest numbers via setups since you generally have to land something before you get access to the good stuff. As for difficulty, I generally don't care about it as long as I'm actually doing something interesting. Granblue's actual fail state feels very hard to hit in most cases, but you do in fact get one-shot by a lot of things at some point... it only seems "easy" because you get a million retries as opposed to like 3 per session or something. And even then, the game lets you build around things by allowing you to have one shot protection and an auto-revive that doesn't count as a down in your builds. (that said, I've heard of incidents of online teams getting wiped a lot because people don't know what's going on, so my experience might be different since I've primarily played solo where I play with the hyper aware AI that perfect dodges most things) The actual act of taking no hits or whatever (which is normally what I would consider high level action game gameplay) is very difficult since the hitboxes get pretty ridiculous. In multi-boss fights, bosses can activate their stupid invulnerability AOE state without everyone else stopping what they are doing and it's situations like this where it feels like they just jammed bosses together at some point to recycle content since none of this stuff really flows together naturally like they do when you fight them solo. Like, I really like the game maybe, but it's hard to defend some things when I just take a step back and analyze it. |
||||||||
LinkTSwordmaster
Posts: 561 Location: PA / USA |
|
|||||||
No prob, KoeiTecmo has a bad habit of releasing one really good game and then it's literally so good that the next one they release cant possibly live up to the one before it & corners get cut... Ororchi 3 Ultimate is like that. If you had accidentally grabbed 4, it's playable, but like Tekken 6 compared to 7 or 8, it's not the series at its best. So far as endgame, Persona 5 Strikers is just straight up a sequel to the original, and if you've played the original on Hard then Strikers on Hard is more P5 story with (what I feel is superior) action-combat since the waiting and the loading of the turn-based stuff is gone and the skill ceiling is high. Once the story ends, it's hard to justify sticking around since it's so integral to the game itself, but it's a heck of a ride getting there. I'd prefer all Persona games going forward were like Strikers. Hyrule Legends and Orochi 3 Ultimate are different though, because the end goal on either one isn't entirely tied to the story. Hyrule Legends has a recreation of the original NES Zelda map with various objectives and secrets, and completing each map unlocks a new weapons/characters/outfits/etc. Instead of using the character vouchers on Granblue, you have to complete the map, and completion happens faster if you remember where some of the secrets in the original NES game were placed. There's multiple maps, and getting a perfect clear on each of them requires no-damage runs. Thing is, this is a WiiU game originally, and once the maps are done you're mainly just trying to get weapons and materials to drop to complete your builds. The video showing off Link is a starter guide. There are enemies that some of those moves wont work universally on (the various boss monsters usually qualify), and it's also not taking into consideration that you have to be careful not to take damage or you lose the clear state. Things get a lot more complicated when unlike Granblue, you have to manually control and manage your party on Strikers & Hyrule Legends (on Switch) - it's easier if you have a splitscreen partner, and then you're talking about juggling combos between two players, covering each other, and each player having different jobs or objectives while the timer is ticking down. Link and Sheik have some pretty busted powers, but they cant help you if they're trapped on the far other side of the map. Orochi does this and turns it to 11. The enemy Ai on Ororchi 3 Ultimate is uncapped - meaning that any difficulty over Normal, and enemy player-class characters have access to EVERY trick that you do and can drop you just as easy as you can drop them. It's one of the few Musou games where I've seen KoeiTecmo do this. You are absolutely required to have good map strategy, the game is balanced for having a co-op partner, and the campaign is probably the longest and meatiest they've ever made. Once finished, they have a PvP fighting game mode (unbalanced as all ungodly heck if you unlock everything) with no built-in restrictions, and a deep-dungeon mode where equipment and materials are dropping like candy. Not unlike Granblue, you are trying to get orbs, and materials, and equips to fill out your team. I recall Ultimate having a rebirth system as well to push stats farther once your level maxes out. You can also create and share custom map scenarios to torture your friends with. It's not that Hyrule Legends or P5 Strikers or Orochi 3 Ultimate are better than Granblue, it's that they're similar. They're on older consoles too so there's gonna be QoL missing or lack of online modes that you have to work around somehow. It's just that if any particular individual finds Granblue interesting and likes Persona, Strikers is a must-play, the same as if you're a Zelda fan, you probably should go out of your way to play to play Hyrule Legends. Strikers actually retains map exploration like Granblue, but Hyrule Legends has combat maps only. And obviously if you're only playing Granblue because you know the series and characters, then the wild historical cast of Orochi 3 Ultimate will be a wash of names and faces you don't have any emotional connection to. The part that fascinates me is that Granblue is for all intent and purpose, the newest & smoothest rendition of a game like any of the above I've mentioned, but KoeiTecmo is terrible at marketing their hits (when they land that sweet spot) & making them stand out from their pile - apparently Strikers sold something like 2mil worldwide at some point, while Persona 5's incarnations have sold 10mil+. Persona 5 is really popular, and yet when I bring Strikers up in conversation, half the population responds as if they'd never even knew it existed. Last edited by LinkTSwordmaster on Fri Feb 16, 2024 2:21 pm; edited 1 time in total |
||||||||
Stelman257
Posts: 315 |
|
|||||||
Yeah I can feel that, but honestly I can kinda see where they were coming from. The story mode is largely used as a vehicle to teach you the game at a lower level before you get thrust into the main meat of the game that is the post-story endless build and grind. So I can understand that rather than a slow story focused method, they opted for more of a quicker paced action game approach, so that people could just jump in and have fun playing the game. Personally it worked for me, especially coming from actively playing Granblue Versus Rising. Had plenty of fun with the main crew, and I thought the new villains were great too. Crispin Freeman's Gallanza being an absolute highlight. I think the Fate episodes could've probably been presented far better than they were or just been written better as a whole. I liked that the early episodes were explaining the characters backstory, but then the later episodes were all random adventures set in the current setting. Which while I get they may not want to spoil everything from the mobile game, still felt like a missed opportunity, especially with the fully voiced nature of them. |
||||||||
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
||
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group