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NEWS: The Ancient Magus' Bride Manga's Return Gets Simultaneous English Release Using AI Translation

IkariBrendo wrote:

Belkov wrote: I had got read about Machine Learning translations of Manga being used in the industry now and was going to start a topic on it until I stumbled upon this one. I just want to say thanks to everybody who had contributed and gave both sides to the debate. I just want to make one point, if I may. I am new to Manga and I'm sure there are a lot of great series out there that will never get a non-Japanese translation. Wouldn't a machine translated version of a series, regardless of it's quality, be better than nothing? No, because there is no logical or ethical reason to resort to machine translation. If a company can afford to license and publish a series, then they can afford to pay people to do proper work. The only reason not to is greed, and therefore they don't deserve consumers' money.

That's not what I am saying.

Some Manga's will never get for instance an English translation because the market is deemed not big enough to justify the cost. Why shouldn't Machine Learning technology be used for these publications to give English speaking customers these publications?

IkariBrendo wrote:

Belkov wrote: I had got read about Machine Learning translations of Manga being used in the industry now and was going to start a topic on it until I stumbled upon this one. I just want to say thanks to everybody who had contributed and gave both sides to the debate. I just want to make one point, if I may. I am new to Manga and I'm sure there are a lot of great series out there that will never get a non-Japanese translation. Wouldn't a machine translated version of a series, regardless of it's quality, be better than nothing? No, because there is no logical or ethical reason to resort to machine translation. If a company can afford to license and publish a series, then they can afford to pay people to do proper work. The only reason not to is greed, and therefore they don't deserve consumers' money.

That's not what I am saying.

Some Manga's will never get for instance an English translation because the market is deemed not big enough to justify the cost. Why shouldn't Machine Learning technology be used for these publications to give English speaking customers these publications?

Continue to demand that works be given proper translations by people qualified to do the work.

ATastySub wrote:

Continue to demand that works be given proper translations by people qualified to do the work.

You may want to rephrase that lest people think you're siding with the anti-loc crowd by using the same rhetoric they use.

Belkov wrote:

Some Manga's will never get for instance an English translation because the market is deemed not big enough to justify the cost. Why shouldn't Machine Learning technology be used for these publications to give English speaking customers these publications?

I agree this can hopefully lead to more works that otherwise would not be feasible to reach wider audiences overseas.

Without Machine Learning, publishing companies could translate a lot more Manga's by employing many more translators and pay for it by increasing prices for all titles. I wonder how many of those who are against ML, would be willing to pay more for this?

Leaving that aside, as well as getting more Manga series published in different languages, there is the possibility of amateur /Doujinshi? self published works getting translations.

I'm new to Manga and I don't know if that part of the Manga scene is for me but I would like to see and ML would be the only route available to me apart from learning to read Japanese which I'm not sure I have the motivation for.

Besides, I'm sure there are a lot of stuff outside the Mainstream stuff published by the big companies that are as good, if not better and surely people should overcome their prejudices towards ML if it allows these series to gain more exposure and popularity?

Someone who apparently works in the industry but is here advocating MLT is what I would constitute as suspicious. Moreso with a 5-year-old account with a small amount of posts, most of which being sporadic over the last year(and mainly on related industry controversies).

Gem-Bug wrote:

Someone who apparently works in the industry but is here advocating MLT is what I would constitute as suspicious. Moreso with a 5-year-old account with a small amount of posts, most of which being sporadic over the last year(and mainly on related industry controversies).

Huh? I'd really advise you actually read the things I've said in this thread because you're just making things up. Super weak to stalk my profile too to try and pwn me. Get outta here, be serious

Belkov wrote:

Without Machine Learning, publishing companies could translate a lot more Manga's by employing many more translators and pay for it by increasing prices for all titles. I wonder how many of those who are against ML, would be willing to pay more for this? Leaving that aside, as well as getting more Manga series published in different languages, there is the possibility of amateur /Doujinshi? self published works getting translations. I'm new to Manga and I don't know if that part of the Manga scene is for me but I would like to see and ML would be the only route available to me apart from learning to read Japanese which I'm not sure I have the motivation for. Besides, I'm sure there are a lot of stuff outside the Mainstream stuff published by the big companies that are as good, if not better and surely people should overcome their prejudices towards ML if it allows these series to gain more exposure and popularity?

It feels incredibly disingenuous to only reply to someone who's adding nothing to the discussion other than to flatly say they agree with you, and it's honestly a bit suspicious that their account was only made today. It's doubly disingenuous to then craft a completely imaginary scenario (that you pass as a definite truth) where the cost of books must be increased exponentially to be able to pay translators; you have no idea what the rates are like nor what the sales numbers are--there is no real scenario where the cost of paying a translator would outweigh the profit. It doesn't feel at all like you really intended a discussion in good faith, and instead feels like you thought you could dish out some gotchas or something. The people who have experience in the industry know more about what we're talking about than you.

IkariBrendo wrote:

Belkov wrote: Without Machine Learning, publishing companies could translate a lot more Manga's by employing many more translators and pay for it by increasing prices for all titles. I wonder how many of those who are against ML, would be willing to pay more for this? Leaving that aside, as well as getting more Manga series published in different languages, there is the possibility of amateur /Doujinshi? self published works getting translations. I'm new to Manga and I don't know if that part of the Manga scene is for me but I would like to see and ML would be the only route available to me apart from learning to read Japanese which I'm not sure I have the motivation for. Besides, I'm sure there are a lot of stuff outside the Mainstream stuff published by the big companies that are as good, if not better and surely people should overcome their prejudices towards ML if it allows these series to gain more exposure and popularity? It feels incredibly disingenuous to only reply to someone who's adding nothing to the discussion other than to flatly say they agree with you, and it's honestly a bit suspicious that their account was only made today. It's doubly disingenuous to then craft a completely imaginary scenario (that you pass as a definite truth) where the cost of books must be increased exponentially to be able to pay translators; you have no idea what the rates are like nor what the sales numbers are--there is no real scenario where the cost of paying a translator would outweigh the profit. It doesn't feel at all like you really intended a discussion in good faith, and instead feels like you thought you could dish out some gotchas or something. The people who have experience in the industry know more about what we're talking about than you.

I don't know if you have a stake in this by being a translator by profession but if so, judging by your replies which has nothing to do with what I had said, it's hardly surprising the publishing companies are wanting to use Machine Learning.

Nah he correctly called out your bad faith. You made up a false dichotomy where the choices were

1- machine translation
Or
2- prices of everything goes up to pay actual translators

That’s not what’s happening or ever needs to happen. The companies attempting this are making more money than they ever have. They can easily afford to pay for qualified translators by not hoarding profits. They do not want to do that, and even the machine learning is for the same miserly reason in that they do not care about the consumers, their workers, or the artists making what they’re selling. They simply want to make the most money possible by delivering the lowest quality product possible. By engineering a false scenario where this is totally ok and the only options are to further it you are not arguing in good faith.

ATastySub wrote:

Nah he correctly called out your bad faith. You made up a false dichotomy where the choices were 1- machine translation Or 2- prices of everything goes up to pay actual translators That’s not what’s happening or ever needs to happen. The companies attempting this are making more money than they ever have. They can easily afford to pay for qualified translators by not hoarding profits. They do not want to do that, and even the machine learning is for the same miserly reason in that they do not care about the consumers, their workers, or the artists making what they’re selling. They simply want to make the most money possible by delivering the lowest quality product possible. By engineering a false scenario where this is totally ok and the only options are to further it you are not arguing in good faith.

That's an extremely bad faith reading of Belkov's post. Statement like a company is making money hand over fist is meaningless if you can't show that particular title is worth it otherwise. What shop would sell an item at a loss, no matter what their overall profit is?

Your post didn't address the second point of his post, that individual creators may possibly use this down the line to translate their own self-published works.