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NEWS: Asahi, Kyodo: 4 Japanese Publishers to Sue Cloudflare for Offering Data Services to Manga Pira


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ErikaD.D



Joined: 09 Jun 2019
Posts: 660
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 9:30 am Reply with quote
Are they gonna shut down all non-legal manga sites outside Japan?
Apparently they don't realize that lack of availability of legal manga sites outside Japan is still exist. There are many mangas who never ever get official licenses. (Still waiting of official physical release of Akebi's Sailor Uniform) Insert Greta Thunberg "blah blah blah".
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Dark Mac



Joined: 17 May 2008
Posts: 323
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 9:34 am Reply with quote
This article sounds like it's about Japanese language piracy sites.
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Blanchimont



Joined: 25 Feb 2012
Posts: 3584
Location: Finland
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 9:45 am Reply with quote
ErikaD.D wrote:
Are they gonna shut down all non-legal manga sites outside Japan?

No, this concerns mainly piracy sites within Japan, as per the article;
Quote:
According to Asahi and Kyodo's sources, Cloudflare has contracts with major piracy sites to distribute data from servers within Japan, even though the piracy sites' administrators are located overseas.
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ErikaD.D



Joined: 09 Jun 2019
Posts: 660
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 9:49 am Reply with quote
Blanchimont wrote:
ErikaD.D wrote:
Are they gonna shut down all non-legal manga sites outside Japan?

No, this concerns mainly piracy sites within Japan, as per the article;
Quote:
According to Asahi and Kyodo's sources, Cloudflare has contracts with major piracy sites to distribute data from servers within Japan, even though the piracy sites' administrators are located overseas.

I thought it includes English languaged non-legal manga sites. A few months ago the English languaged non-legal manga site Bl@ck C@t (not related to manga and anime) shuted down by DMCA.
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wewhomustnotbenamed



Joined: 01 Jun 2018
Posts: 50
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 9:56 am Reply with quote
ErikaD.D wrote:
Blanchimont wrote:
ErikaD.D wrote:
Are they gonna shut down all non-legal manga sites outside Japan?

No, this concerns mainly piracy sites within Japan, as per the article;
Quote:
According to Asahi and Kyodo's sources, Cloudflare has contracts with major piracy sites to distribute data from servers within Japan, even though the piracy sites' administrators are located overseas.

I thought it includes English languaged non-legal manga sites. A few months ago the English languaged non-legal manga site Bl@ck C@t (not related to manga and anime) shuted down by DMCA.
black cat mostly work on licensed series. i don't know what they expect.
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Tenbyakugon



Joined: 11 Jan 2012
Posts: 800
Location: Ohio, United States
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 10:52 am Reply with quote
Good luck. This is a U.S.-domiciled company servicing a Japanese website. Laughing
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mangamuscle



Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 2658
Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 11:06 am Reply with quote
So, the japanese overlord are too lazy to sue the pirate manga sites and are going for the middleman instead Rolling Eyes
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Nate148



Joined: 24 May 2012
Posts: 521
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 11:13 am Reply with quote
why kill the head when you can kill the whole thing
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John Thacker



Joined: 28 Oct 2013
Posts: 1009
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 11:20 am Reply with quote
Most countries don't have the equivalent of Section 230 of the DMCA like the USA, so Cloudflare doesn't have legal protection like in the US. Thanks to 230, Cloudflare has protection even if they do choose to deny service to some content. Even so, the movement to push Cloudflare to deny service to other groups (hate groups, gambling, etc.) certainly emboldens prosecutors in other countries to try to go after them for hosting piracy.
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SaitoHajime101



Joined: 31 Mar 2013
Posts: 285
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 1:29 pm Reply with quote
John Thacker wrote:
Most countries don't have the equivalent of Section 230 of the DMCA like the USA, so Cloudflare doesn't have legal protection like in the US. Thanks to 230, Cloudflare has protection even if they do choose to deny service to some content. Even so, the movement to push Cloudflare to deny service to other groups (hate groups, gambling, etc.) certainly emboldens prosecutors in other countries to try to go after them for hosting piracy.


The issue here is Cloudflare doesn't host anything. They are a protection service that protects websites from attacks by bad actors. Japanese publishers will not win this lawsuit, they know this. It's clearly a scare tactic for Japanese webhosting services and site owners. My assumption is by taking down Cloudflare, you can open up illegal websites to malicious attacks, thus taking them down by leveraging other illegal actions.

INFORMATIONAL: https://www.cloudflare.com/plans/#overview

Last edited by SaitoHajime101 on Sun Jan 30, 2022 2:41 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Tempest
I Run this place.
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Joined: 29 Dec 2001
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 2:35 pm Reply with quote
Tenbyakugon wrote:
Good luck. This is a U.S.-domiciled company servicing a Japanese website. Laughing
Cloudflare has offices in Japan, they have a data center in Japan. They required to abide by Japanese laws, and they have assets that Japanese courts can target if Cloudflare tries to ignore them.
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Tempest
I Run this place.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 2:45 pm Reply with quote
SaitoHajime101 wrote:
The issue here is Cloudflare doesn't host anything. They are a protection service that protects websites from attacks from the outside. Japanese publishers will not win this lawsuit, they know this.


You've heard of the US crime of "aiding and abetting", right? When a person or company knowingly helps, or protects a criminal or criminal enterprise, they can often be found at least partially responsible for the crimes being committed.

Some countries have laws like the DMCA that give service providers a safe harbor (section 230 of the DMCA), but that safe harbor often expires once the service provider is informed of the illegal acts that are taking place. For example, if YouTube fails to act on a DMCA takedown request, you can sue YouTube next.

I don't know what kind of safe harbor is available in Japan...

ANN uses Cloudflare, and we love them, but the one thing I've long disliked about Cloudflare is that they are very, very lax about dealing with illegal activities done by websites that use their services. It almost seems like this is by design at times. The only thing they will do in most cases is "forward your complaint to the relevant website."
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myskaros



Joined: 13 Jun 2011
Posts: 604
Location: J-Novel Club
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 2:49 pm Reply with quote
mangamuscle wrote:
So, the japanese overlord are too lazy to sue the pirate manga sites and are going for the middleman instead Rolling Eyes

Many pirate manga sites are hosted in countries that haven't signed with international copyright treaties, meaning copyright laws don't apply there. Sometimes the only way to get to them is through the middleman.
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mangamuscle



Joined: 23 Apr 2006
Posts: 2658
Location: Mexico
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 4:11 pm Reply with quote
myskaros wrote:
mangamuscle wrote:
So, the japanese overlord are too lazy to sue the pirate manga sites and are going for the middleman instead Rolling Eyes

Many pirate manga sites are hosted in countries that haven't signed with international copyright treaties, meaning copyright laws don't apply there. Sometimes the only way to get to them is through the middleman.


Here is the map of the signatory countries of the the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works, usually known as the Berne Convention, an international agreement governing copyright:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berne_Convention#/media/File:Berne_Convention_signatories.svg

The countries you mention are few and far between, not meritying this strong arming of an intermediary. This goes to show they want to look like they are doing something about those sites without actually doing the heavy lifting required to go after the culprits.

Maybe the recent loss Toei had against a youtuber convinced some executives that outside japan there is little they can do, which is not true, it is simply that legal affairs cost money and time.
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AJ (LordNikon)



Joined: 14 Apr 2009
Posts: 517
Location: Kyoto
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2022 6:28 pm Reply with quote
Tempest wrote:
SaitoHajime101 wrote:
The issue here is Cloudflare doesn't host anything. They are a protection service that protects websites from attacks from the outside. Japanese publishers will not win this lawsuit, they know this.


You've heard of the US crime of "aiding and abetting", right? When a person or company knowingly helps, or protects a criminal or criminal enterprise, they can often be found at least partially responsible for the crimes being committed.

Some countries have laws like the DMCA that give service providers a safe harbor (section 230 of the DMCA), but that safe harbor often expires once the service provider is informed of the illegal acts that are taking place. For example, if YouTube fails to act on a DMCA takedown request, you can sue YouTube next.

I don't know what kind of safe harbor is available in Japan...

ANN uses Cloudflare, and we love them, but the one thing I've long disliked about Cloudflare is that they are very, very lax about dealing with illegal activities done by websites that use their services. It almost seems like this is by design at times. The only thing they will do in most cases is "forward your complaint to the relevant website."


Sounds legit. That's worked so well for holding Twitter, Facebook, and etc accountable so far right?
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