Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Attack on Titan The Final Season
|
Goto page Previous Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Everlasting Coconut
 Posts: 302 |
|
|||||||
So it's basically when an author is afraid of their readers' reaction, so they write in a way to control the readers' hate? Man, if I were an author, I'd take that as an insult. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
Johan Eriksson 9003
Posts: 281 |
|
|||||||
Yes, I am familliar with the manga and everything Gabi does from now on. I still don't care because the level of hate this character has gotten is quite frankly ridiculous. I haven't seen much of it here (thankfully) but a while back you couldn't scroll past 2 comments on a single AoT forum without someone describing all the horrible things they wanted to happen to this 12-year old in graphic detail, all while cheering on characters that have done or are doing objectively worse things. And like, I'm no stranger to personal preference or disliking a character for petty reasons, but that can only account for so much. When people dislike a character for personal reasons (like "she killed my fave") there is usually some self-awareness at work and those people rarely go through the trouble of proclaiming how awful the character is at every opportunity. And it certainly doesn't account for why she gets equal or worse treatment than characters who do worse things than her without the benefit of being long-time protagonists that the audience is attached to. Like, you just compared Gabi's treatment in the fandom to Floch, and I'm sorry but that is already pretty bonkers to me. Floch is basically a brownshirt at this point and he hasn't had anywhere near the kind of screentime and sympathetic development that Gabi has. If you hate these two in equal measure, then I have to assume there is something more at work here than just their attitudes or unlikable actions. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
Minos_Kurumada
Posts: 1098 |
|
|||||||
If it was an easy trick everybody would pull it of, successfully creating such a divisive character it's a great accomplishment and killing a loved character like Sasha in order to cement the character as such it's one of the ballsiest decisions I have seen in manga. Not every writer can pull a Mirko from his hat, nor they want to, and Isayama obviously didn't want to since I am sure he can. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
Nordhmmer
Posts: 1028 |
|
|||||||
Floch is no more a "Brownshirt" - term that really does not apply to AoT- than Gabi or Yelena. All three have been written to be hardened,combat vets,all three written to be as fanatical about their mirrored, beliefs. I personally dislike fanatics equally,nothing more to it really- nothing to assume about it. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
Agent355
 Posts: 5113 Location: Crackberry in hand, thumbs at the ready... |
|
|||||||
|
Non-spoiler discussion about Gabi:
I agree with Johan Eriksson 9003 that Gabi gets an oversized amount of hate. I don’t necessarily think it’s due to sexism, but I don’t think it’s because most fans “equally dislike fanatics,” either, because I’ve seen plenty of fans who hate Gabi but defend Floch (he of the “let’s set fire to more civilians homes!” tactics) and Eren (“Let’s collaborate with my brother to attack the civilian ghetto he grew up in in order to catch the Marleyan military by surprise!”). Compared to them, Gabi has only attacked enemy *soldiers*. I think fans hate Gabi because 1. One of those enemy soldiers she killed was a fan favorite who we’ve been following since the beginning of the story (to be fair, she caught Sasha unawares after the Scouts let their guard down, so it seems more unfair) 2. She’s been brainwashed by a racist regime and buys into the rhetoric to the point of thinking of the main characters we’ve grown to love as inferior 3. She’s arrogant and this attitude can be grating, especially contrasted with Falco’s more compassionate, easygoing nature I’ve never hated Gabi, and watching the anime adaptation makes me actually sympathize with her. We haven’t spent enough time with Zofia and Udo to care about them as much as we care about Sasha, but their deaths were equally unfair as Sasha’s—sudden and merciless. (And while I was devastated when I first read Sasha’s death, there had been rumors for years that Isayama had planned to kill her off after the first arc and only kept on because she became a fan favorite. So on a meta level, she was living on borrowed time. I’m glad we got as much of her as we did). I thought it was clear from the episode that Jean, Levi and Hange blame the casualties, including Sasha, on Eren more than their individual killers. This is war. Now Gabi and Falco are heading to Paradis, and Gabi will be in a position to learn that the “Island Devils” are only human. They are both young enough to make new connections and learn new ways of thinking. I’m looking forward to that journey. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
Yuvelir
 Posts: 1597 |
|
|||||||
|
Come think of it, is the 6 dead figure correct? Between anti-titan weaponry, stray shots and the cart turret (that thing DELETED Scouts) I'm pretty sure I saw more than 6 die.
I've been thinking for a while that this is the best punishment. Getting to know these "devils" and the lives of these two people (bonus points if she realizes that was the potato girl Reiner talked about) to the point that her entire belief system and the justification for her murders are turned upside down would hurt more than being thrown off a ship. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
Johan Eriksson 9003
Posts: 281 |
|
|||||||
Attack on Titan is a story that has a lot to say about fascism (for better or worse) so "brownshirt" is absolutely an applicable term. And no, he is nowhere near the same as Gabi, or Yelena for that matter. Floch is a grown-ass man capable of making his own decisions who has already declared that he fights for the restoration of the Eldian Empire and who deliberately targets civilians to accomplish this. Gabi is a 12-year-old child who has been indoctrinated into hating Eldians because if she doesn't, then she and her family are executed on the spot and her only victims are actual soldiers. Again, I get that personal preference is a factor here, but so is false equivalence. If you don't feel like there is any bias inherent to your dislike for Gabi, good for you. But this isn't about you. This is about the observable fact that Gabi gets a very disproportionate and vile amount of hate in the fandom. And I can't really see any root reason for it that is justified in the text. Sure she is arrogant as fudge and that can be grating, but it can also be endearing. Lots of fan-favorites are also arrogant to a fault so that can't be it. And she did kill a fan-favorite character but as I said, people who hate characters for those kinds of personal or petty reasons tend to be self-aware of it and not spew the kind of bile that gets thrown at Gabi. It could be several of these factors combined but even then the only key ingredient that makes sense to produce the kind of hateful comments I have seen is misogyny. Gabi is brash, arrogant, and full of fury, but she is also a little girl, and a fandom consisting of mostly young men is a lot less forgiving of these qualities when they come from young girls. Again, this is more of an observation on fandoms and society as a whole, not a personal accusation of anyone. If you can honestly say that you only dislike Gabi for personal reasons then please realize that this is not a comment about you specifically and don't get defensive. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
Nordhmmer
Posts: 1028 |
|
|||||||
|
Johan Eriksson - personal preference is a factor
Personal preference plays a large part in everyone's opinion- This includes your comments. Human history right up to this day and on,is replete with parallels to the xenophobia & racism portrayed in AoT. One can project Fascism,Nazism,Communism, a host of human misery & "isms", into AoT. Within it's sci fi-fantasy wrapping, AoT is a simple anti-war/ anti-hate tale after all. Floch no more decided to hate those beyond the sea anymore than Gabi hates those who live on the Island- my thought. You find that,overall, Gabi's traits are endearing. Others see a new player from a rival team who truly sidelined a long time,hometown favorite and they're freely voicing their anonymous "hate".The world is just full one fandom or another wearing their emotions on their sleeves, expressing "love"or "hate" at change to their [insert here]. small joke: AoT is actually about the endless cycle of "fandom"'s luv & hate. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
Johan Eriksson 9003
Posts: 281 |
|
|||||||
Yes? I said the same thing. What's your point? Because I have already explained why I don't think merely "personal preference" can account for the kind of treatment Gabi gets in the fandom.
That's not how art works dude. Even if Isayama wanted this story to be simply "anti-war/anti-hate" rather than anything more specific (and I really doubt that), the fact that he rooted so much of the imagery for this arc in the holocaust means that is IS a commentary on fascism, whether he likes it or not.
Ok. That thought is wrong. Sorry. This is why circumstances matter. A grown man deciding to hate and murder those he knows are innocent is not the same as a child who has been thought under duress that there are no innocents. One of these people really should know better. If you judge these two equally, then I think there is some bias in your judgment.
Ok, but that is kinda my point. If this was just a matter of "some people like Gabi because of her attitude and some people hate her because of the same attitude" then we would be seeing a lot more even distribution of opinions here, or at the very least we should see a lot more hate for characters that share Gabi's general disposition. But that is not the case. The fandom community leans very heavily on hating Gabi, and I mean capital-H Hate her. I just don't buy that this level of dislike from a community at large springs up naturally without some underlying darker bias at play. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18269 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
|
|||||||
I disagree here. Adults can be indoctrinated into that kind of attitude just as effectively as children can, and if they have always been raised in that environment then they wouldn't necessarily know better - or at all acknowledge, for instance, that those they're murdering are innocents. Overall, I find arguments that Gabi is so hated because she's a girl to be a stretch. (I will acknowledge, however, that I don't have direct experience with fandom railing on about her outside of these forums.) I don't think you're giving enough credit to how truly abrasive her personality is. I pity her as being a pawn of a much bigger system of hate and oppression rather than hate her, but I can easily see how she could rub people the wrong way sufficiently enough to inspire vitriol. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
Yuvelir
Posts: 1597 |
|
|||||||
Adults can be indoctrinated, but this particular war criminal wasn't. As much as titans were recognized as the enemy that keeps them behind walls at Paradis, there was no active propaganda driving to hate and massacre them. Until Bert happened at least. Heck, he didn't even know the civilians he was attacking existed until three years ago. That everyone at Marley is evil and should be butchered is hiw own conclusion driven by his own limited experiences and thoughts (ironically he's now escorting the only Marleyan that he had met beforehand). And he gets way less hate than the kid with a similar stance achieved through a decade and change of nonstop explicit indoctrination. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
FormX
Posts: 51 |
|
|||||||
|
In the discussion of Sasha's death it's usually solely focused on Gabi or even Eren for initiating. There is very little attribution to the circumstance. How about the brilliant idea of leaving a lone guard outside for the entire airship? Or the moronic behaviour of celebrating before even leaving enemy territory on a special ops mission? The complete lack of vigilance from the Scouts given the situation is laughable. Gabi had the time to shoot Lobov, run to the line and say goodbye to Falco, travel up to the blimp and climb to the entrance unnoticed. Obviously it's not as interesting of a discussion, but the Scouts have no excuse.
|
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
Yuvelir
Posts: 1597 |
|
|||||||
This actually irked me in the moment. Nobody knew for sure if Lobov had made it back. Like what? Two dozens of you and not a single person to watch his back? He was in such a vulnerable position ffs, even if he didn't have anyone literally at his side someone should have been watching, looking for danger and ready to bail him out if needed - even without an emergency it would have been a ncie gesture, it's not easy to get back to the ship unaided. I'm kind of surprised they made the effort so attach some timber to the gondola's base to attach the hooks but didn't make a whole platform or place some short ladders for the climb back. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
|
Yuvelir
Posts: 1597 |
|
|||||||
|
Of course the first thing we get after Sasha getting killed is a set of several scenes of Sasha being lovely.
They say the quickest way to a man's heart is through his stomach, but sometimes it's through YOUR stomach instead. All in all, I was surprised to see such a positive episode. Even with all the cruelty and shit going on before, after and around those events, that these people of such different origins and beliefs could form genuine connections through curiosity and sincerity is more of a hopeful message than I expected for this series at this point. And good to see that Levi still has some sense of humor. On a side note, I love how this series interveawes humour into scenes. Most of the time it isn't sudden, but rather it builds up slowly in a different joke until you realize you're in the middle of a joke. That's what happened with Levi's hotel scene, or Reiner reminding his time "among demons", or the revelation of who (or rather what) the wizened and imposing king actually was, or even going as far back as Sasha's famous potato scene. It's all serious and grave, until that same serious atmosphere becomes the punchline. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
Covnam
 Posts: 3737 |
|
|||||||
I would imagine that is by far the number one reason why anyone would feel this way. A character people likes is killed, so the most direct one responsible gets all the hatred that goes with it. The timing (out of combat essentially), just makes it hit harder, which makes the negative reaction even stronger. |
||||||||
|
||||||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group