In a discord chat, someone made this post.
| Quote: | | I am wondering why Japanese animation got such an explosion worldwide to the point not only were Japan's biggest hits such as Dragon Ball, Sailor Moon, and Saint Seiya are recognizable icons even to people who never heard of anime and liked to an extent by anime haters but they even out rated local shows in foreign countries!
I mean for example not a single Italian cartoon series had been able to come close to achieving the popularity of Dragon Ball and Saint Seiya in Italy and in the Philippines Yu Yu Hakusho had far more viewing than even successful live action TV dramas and soap operas in the Philippines!
Only the American cartoon industry could compete with many American cartoon icons like Spongebob, Scooby Doo, and the Flintstones achieving international popularity and Disney (with Pixar and perhaps to a lesser extent Dreamworks) animated films being hits much everywhere they release their films.
And even than the Japanese industry has a big edge over the American animation one. Only the shows that were hits in their original broadcast such as Spongebob find international airing and its only Disney's and Pixar's films that consistently scores the box office in foreign markets (though Dreamworks' Shrek was a pretty huge hit worldwide).
Japanese anime on the other hand not only had its mega hits find massive success around the world but even merely moderately successful shows like Cowboy Bebop and obscure ones such as Big O become such big hits despite not scoring stunning ratings back in homeland Japan. In some cases the original mangaka and studios are only able to make a profits with such failures because of the international success.
Big O to use as an examples was actually canceled in its original run in Japan but it was such a surprise smash hit in North America that the studio actually resumed the series! Sonic X would receive a North American only second season which ironically would later get dubbed in Japanese (despite the first season originally made in Japanese for Japanese audiences).
If anything, the Japanese industry succeeded where the American industry could not; create shows targeting older audiences that were not inane comedies (in the vein of South Park and Family guy) and attain considerable commercial success (Cowboy Bebop and Ghost in the shell being the prime example I can think off). Even their shows aimed at kids and teenagers attain success at older audiences if Sailor Moon and Dragon Ball are anything to show.
Only American animated cartoon aimed at kids I can think off that had such major success with adults comparable to DBZ and Sailor Moon is Spongebob Squarepants.
Lets go it a step further and I'll state many shows that would be taboo to watch by the opposite gender "back in Japan" find tremendous success with said gender internationally!
Admitting you like Sailor Moon even as a elementary kid in Japan is already social suicide. But at least half the Sailor Moon fandom is male worldwide!
Many other series that were meant to only be like "by little girls" such as Cardcaptor Sakura, Magic Knight Rayearth, and Rose of Versailles not only have primarily adult fans in the West but the ratio of male-female fan ratiois basically at the same level as Sailor Moon.
Many series intend to be aimed only at certain genre fans have most of its international fans don't even follow said genres.Captain Harlock for example has its French fandom mostly consisting of non-Sci Fi/Space Opera fans. |
The same person later posted this as a replay in the chatroom to someone else's response.
| Quote: | | I mentioned in the earlier chats that other than Japan, its only North America that managed to dominate the animation industry on a global scale. To the point that , just like anime, many American iconic cartoon characters such as Scooby Doo are so much far more ****ing famous than most local animated shows produced in other countries that even your 50 year old Grandma who's survived through World War II in Romania can recognize who Tom and Jerry in an instant and American cartoons (much like many anime classics) can often far exceed even the most popular locally produced live TV show in TV ratings.
However looking back on that chat, it made me curious about one thing.
When I was young (around elementary and middle school) and anime was just getting big in North America, I remember thinking how awesome anime was and how Japanese animation is not only superior to American cartoons but anime was far more ****ing popular than American cartoons ever were.
In fact I remember how so many kids my age (including myself) even honestly believed that American cartoons were only popular in the United States (and to a lesser degree Canada). That anime was more accessible because so many more people watched Dragon Ball Z and other classics worldwide outside the English speaking world than say Johnny Quest or the Animaniacs.
Of course I grew up and forgot about anime/manga. But quite recently I've been rewatching childhood classics of various mediums including American cartoons and anime from The Slayers to Jackie Chan Adventures to Friends and with a more open mind, I was surprised just how popular many beloved classics of American animation such as Timon and Pumbaa and the Flintstones were just as beloved worldwide as many popular anime series, Granted most of these shows are now a distant memories in the foreign countries they once dominated (as opposed to many anime classics which still gets reruns on local channels in the nations they dominated such as Cardcaptor Sakura) and many anime franchises are much bigger cashcow internationally especially in merchandise sales.
But man the shock I had when I learned to this day Flintstones is still beloved in Mexico that some local channels rerun it. Even moreso when I also discovered the series is essentially about the MOST POPULAR import Hungary received from America (well at least as far as animation goes; I seen conflicting statements in forum boards but the general consensus is that the show is so beloved its ratings when it first aired int he country still beats many locally produced live action dramas). Hell I seen at least one Hungarian poster state they still rerun the Flintstones on the country's equivalent of Cartoon Network and ABC! In both countries in addition to still airing the show on public TV, merchandise is selling quite well.
Also the fact the Powerpuff Girls was a smash hit in Japan also shocked me too.
To use an equivalent of BIg O getting another season because of its popularity when it aired in America, Timon and Pumba literally got a 5th and final season because of how well it was doing outside of North America. I was just surprised to learn this beloved classic of my childhood was only an above average hit in overall popularity in the U.S. but internationally its a beloved cult classic with so many fans. fudge we only got about 4 vhs releases here in the states while internationally at least half the show has been released on VHS and later transferred to DVD (slams computer)!
Not even going into Disney which dominates the Box Office everywhere and Spongebob Squarepants (don't get me started on this one's international popularity).
There are so many examples but just these two (Dosney and Spongebob) alone makes me wonder about how much more mainstream anime is beyond its demograph outside of Japan? I mean other than the mega hits, the general populace overall doesn't know anything other than Naruto or Sailor Moon (exception being France and Italy).
However I'd still give the slight edge to anime as being the overall more popular one because so many niche genres manage to sell well internationally (as opposed to North America-Heavy Metal didn't do well in the Box Office). In addition to niche genres catered to Otakus and perverts, even many big flops like Big O manage to not only find fandom among Otakus outside of Japan but even hit the mainstream and get non-anime viewers as fans. I still remember how many adults who never heard of anime before were talking about how awesome Big O was when it was still airing on Toonami and later Adult Swim.
I mean its a telling thing many flops get several more seasons just because it scored well specifically in one country outside of Japan. I mean even here in North America it takes being a hit in SEVERAL countries (often sharing the same language like Latin American nations) to even be considered to have a renewed season. That certainly was the case for Timon and Pumbaa which was poular in many Spanish speaking countries along with Western European nations and Russia (and nearby nations to it).
But overall back to the main question-is American animation really just locally popular like many otakus (and teens who think anime is all awesome) assume it is? Does Japan really have the monopoly in international popularity in its animation, TV series specifically? Just the mention of Flintstones, Timon and Pumbaa, Powerpuff girls, and Spongebob Squarepants really makes me doubt the anime industry has a grip on importing titles elsewhere and has a monopoly overall in the global market. I mean American Cartoons seem like an easy contender for being a VERY VERY VERY close 2nd place as dominant force in the animation industry.
Anime still dominates because of how it overshadows many local cartoons in countries its imported to by a [expletive] LARGE DEGREE (if not outright destroying the local industries). But as I note I notice American cartoons often take up the animation time slot when anime isn't showing on foreign country TV. I mean I remember seeing a commercial of a French TV's children block and in addition to Saint SEiya, Sailor Moon, DBZ, and Hokuto No Ken it also featured senes of the latest Scooby Doo series running at the time, the Animaniacs, and other beloved childhood cartoons of mine! |
Indeed as the discorder says in the Chatroom, on the internet and in North America, there's an assumption American animation is just popular in America and Canada, with Disney being the exception. That not only has anime far surpassed American cartoons world wide in popularity but American animated don't get exported worldwide and thus lack the cultural impact that anime does. I seen many posts where English speakers assume because it is aimed at children, American animation is simply something that stays in America aside from Disney. That stuff like Spongebob lacks the cross cultural appeal that say DBZ and Sailor Moon has.
I myself was surprised to learn Spongebob is beloved worldwide on an immediate google search. So words cannot describe it when I learned much of what the quoted stuff above the discord user posted was true such as Flintstones being popular in not just South of the Border but even across Latin America. Even having a cult fandom in anime dominant countries like France and Italy! The same with even shows that were just modestly popular in North America like Foster's Home For Imaginary Friends and The MisAdventures of Flapjack! They were translated across multiple languages, including Japanese ironically!
So basically I have to ask. Is the popularity of American animation world wide quite overlooked? Is American animation a direct competitor to the anime industry? In addition as a bonus why did North America manage to become a cultural powerhouse and superpower export of animation, only to be matched by the Japanese animation industry? Why couldn't say France match Canada's high frequency of translating local cartoons to other language to be aired across the world? Why can Germany not create a local show that gets say gets the huge amount of international adoration and continued viewership that Scooby Doo does? Why can't Italy create its own counterpart to Spongebob as an exported cultural impact?
Even Britain, the one country that has native animated shows that can meet American cartoons and anime in quality and overseas popularity, has not created anything close to Disney's monopolizing dominance of animated movies. And they made a number of hit beloved animation thats been aired across the world such as the current on-going Adventures of Gumball! Even in than, lots of British productions are coordinated projects with American and Canadian companies so its not really a "British" product imported per say but Anglo-Saxon importation!
So I am curious why America's impact on animation world wide is so overlooked esp on the internet? I'm still surprised Scooby Doo received Arabic and Hindi dubs and Powerpuff Girls was a popular in Japan back in its heyday (and still a beloved cult classic)!
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Speaking as an American, I would say that it is not overlooked, but rather no one cares, other than the bean counters.
(no one cares = adult mainstream population, exempting those in the industry)
Most of those cartoons are geared towards children, though some have appeal to adults.
I would also, down play the popularity of anime outside of Japan. It is still a niche product outside of Japan. It is popular with anime fans, but for the most part not with non-anime fans.
Kind of wish European animation was more popular in America. But I think most people would think of it the same way they view Japanese anime.
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