Forum - View topicEP. REVIEW: Attack on Titan
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Merida
Posts: 1946 |
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Like what for example? I don't see how Eren's character arc would have been any different without this particular drama.
But that's just a bag of boring old shounen "the kids are the future~" clichés, there's nothing original about it at all... |
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ShatteredWorld
Posts: 265 Location: ATL |
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It sets up that Eren is willing to forgo the "logical" steps and procedures to "save humanity" in order to prioritize Armin and, later on,spoiler[ the people he loves the most (Armin, Mikasa, Jean/Connie/Sasha/Historia). The logical choice here is to bring Erwin back, who has the most experience and can continue to be a military and strategic help to humanity within the Walls. But Eren wants Armin to live. Then, years later, Eren is willing to kill tens of innocent men, women and children in order to protect his friends and surrogate family. All of that is compounded and set up by Eren having the audacity to place his own human selfishness above what is socially or traditionally expected of him.] And my point about comparing Armin's dream to Erwin's curse wasn't to note whether it was "original" or not. We've all consumed enough media to realize, hopefully, that nothing conceptually is "original" anymore and it all comes down to execution. Personally I feel that the execution and juxtaposition of Armin's dream of the future and endless possibilities to Erwin's chained-to-the-past ambitions of his father was done particularly well. |
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Key
Moderator
Posts: 18400 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Agreed. When thought about this way - that Armin's dreams were ultimately more expansive - Levi's decision makes much more sense. As for episode 56: Wow. Not sure what twist I was expecting, but I don't think that was it. I have a sneaking suspicion now about where this is going, and frankly, I'm kinda hoping that I'm wrong. |
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Merida
Posts: 1946 |
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And how was that surprising in any way or told us anything new about Eren? Of course the shounen hero would priorize his friends over "humanity"...and knowing Eren's character, did anybody seriously not expect this?
Well, here's where we got to agree to disagree. I thought the execution was particularly trite and borderline OOC for Levi. |
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ShatteredWorld
Posts: 265 Location: ATL |
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Well, not quite. Usually in shonen, things are done so that the hero can have his cake and eat it too. If this was a traditional shonen series, there would have typically been a way to save both Erwin and Armin. But the choice is made as binary as possible for Eren - humanitys certain military structure and strength with Erwin or a possible but uncertain structure with Armin. Erwin is the better choice for humanity from a logistic standpoint. Armin is *Eren's* choice from an emotional one. It's new because its literally something that he has never done before in the story, choosing himself or his needs/desires squarely against humanity and society's wishes. |
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maximilianjenus
Posts: 2894 |
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yeah, in a regular shounen levi would have inyected both with the serum and they would have split bertold so both had lunch.
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Merida
Posts: 1946 |
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^LOL! They could have given it a try at least?
I'd agree if Erwin would have been around the same age as Armin, but it's pretty "regular shounen"-like to sacrifice the adult for the kid, even if it doesn't make sense. logically. |
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ShatteredWorld
Posts: 265 Location: ATL |
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Not at all. What kind of shonen do you tend to read/watch? The old sacrificing themselves for the new generation is the trope you're thinking of, but you're discounting the point the series makes that choosing Armin isn't the choice that humanity would make at large. |
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Merida
Posts: 1946 |
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Well, pity humanity isn't the protagonist of this shounen manga, some typical shounen hero is...which is why friendship >>>>>>>> survival of humanity. |
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Sahmbahdeh
Posts: 713 |
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Wow, one after-credit scene and we're already making sweeping pronouncements about fascism and antisemitism, and wringing our hands about how "problematic" this story is/could be. Trust me when I say, as a manga reader, it is 1. way more complex than you can probably even guess, and 2. not at all pro-fascism or militarism. If people think AoT is anything but strongly against fascism then they haven't been paying attention.
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FormX
Posts: 51 |
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Nice episode 56 write up from James, honestly.
He considers the possible implications and both Western and Eastern perspectives. Too many people, manga readers included, have knee jerk reactions and the vast majority don't see the series from an Asian viewpoint. As a manga reader since before the anime was announced, taking into account the story presented so far as of chapter 118, it is likely that Isayama used Jewish imagery without being fully aware of Western sensitivity. |
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Gem-Bug
Posts: 1293 |
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I think part of what the issue could be is that manga-wise, the chapter ends with the photograph reveal, and the after-credit scene is the beginning of the following full chapter. It just doesn't give us enough information in those few minutes besides the real-world comparisons (armbands, fenced gate, allusions to economic disparity), so they stand out more obviously. I appreciate after-credit teasers, but where they had already padded out this episode a little, they likely could've done a couple minutes more and ended with the photograph. It would've kept people in a state of awe for the next episode, rather than maybe making some folks feel really weird about things for the next week. |
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pikabot
Posts: 169 |
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I have bad news for you! |
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db999
Posts: 322 |
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As someone who is both up to date on the manga, and Jewish, I can gladly say that fortunately, the reviewer's worry about anti-Semitism and pro-fascism are wildly off the mark. If anything the work is distinctly anti-fascist.
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Engineering Nerd
Posts: 902 Location: Southern California |
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First, thank you James (yeah, as a loyal follower of your twitter, I know you are reading the comment section ), thank you for pointing out potential red flags while avoiding jumping into conclusions. Yes, from this point, Attack on Titan has truly transformed, a series that went beyond shouen tropes and ready to discuss utterly sensitive topics with uncanny delicacy (although at first glance may seem unsubtle and heavy-handed). I won't spoil the upcoming story, but I do think it is worth mentioning back in 2016, how the AOT fandom reacted with this revelation. In short: total chaos. "Insensitive", "Fascism/Imperialism Apologist", "attempt to glorify the real-world war crimes" etc, those accusations were throwing around, and nobody knew what Isayama is up too and you can imagine how "healthy" that discussion environment is. But as story went on, those suspicions were quickly wiped-put, as it became obvious what Isayama's standpoint on the sensitive issues and his ambition to raise the overall plot to unprecedented height, it's actually much more delicate than most people give credit for, and to clear one of your biggest fear with the series, it humanizes all sides of the characters without excusing their past behaviors, an unbelievable feat consider how risky the story direction is; and that makes me love the series so much. AOT story always have that healthy dose of suspense (which is a highlight of season 2), but after next the next two episodes, when you give a re-watch to the past seasons, I believe you will have some new appreciation to the series from those little details sprinkling throughout the series. Actually, just re-watch the season 2 episode 4 (one of James' favorite episodes, mine too) will remind you how this has been foreshadowed LONG time ago. Next three episodes will be huge, AOT has always been a puzzle, and when they are assembled together, I am confident it will be a rewarding experience for all fans. \\ PS: Oh, season 4 is confirmed https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/byy3ci/director_of_attack_on_titan_tetsuro_araki/ Last edited by Engineering Nerd on Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:08 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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