Forum - View topicAnswerman - Why Are Fat People Ridiculed In Anime?
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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American society does not feed fat people a "sugar-coated lie" about being overweight. Society does not make things easier for them, nor does it tell them to accept themselves for who they are. There are fringe movements around fat acceptance that haven't been embraced by society at large - and weirdly the actual proponents of that line of thinking are never actually involved in discussions like these, their arguments are just wildly misrepresented and strawmanned into meaninglessness by people hyperventilating over the idea that kindness sometimes also works, and not everyone is motivated by Strong Daddy the same way you are.
So if we're dealing with reality as it is, I would say that where we're really running into trouble is the idea that you're the person who needs to personally enforce societal health and beauty standards on overweight strangers. Or as you're framing it, "fat people need to be shamed by me or they'll never learn". People are cruel. The insecure seek targets. They tell you that it's for your own good, that society should shame you for looking this way, otherwise you wouldn't know any better. Dehumanizing condescension, like you're speaking to a child who can't take care of themselves. Every single fat person you roll your eyes at and presume to be worthless and lazy involves a mountain of insulting presumption and hubris on your part. It's weird to me that you can't see this, that your empathy for them is so lacking that you'd presume to understand the totality of their experience and the context of their life based on a glance. And that arguing that you, personally, shouldn't cast yourself as their judge is somehow reframed by you "enabling their unhealthy lifestyle", again bestowing yourself with the title of enforcer. You're not the only person arguing this line of thinking in this thread, either, but I would ask, who asked you to do this job? That's what people are arguing with. The fantasy that it's somehow your role to make fat people feel terrible about themselves, otherwise they'll never learn. Anything shy of dehumanizing, empathy-free shame and cruelty is ineffective weakness because society takes it so easy on fat people. That's a whole lot of bad ideas to me and a lot of other people, and they're telling you so in this thread. At least we're discussing it civilly, but this is very personal to a lot of people. You should probably expect heated replies. Last edited by Zac on Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Gina Szanboti
Posts: 11580 |
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If that's so, and extra 2" isn't going to cut it.  I would assume pregnant women would be exempt from this dictum, though they probably get caught up in the weight gain net.
How do you tell the difference?  I assume you're talking about ridiculing strangers on the street rather than your friends, so how do you know which ones to ridicule?
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Chiibi
 Posts: 4829 |
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Pffft the hell if they don't.
Forgive me but I think there's a middle-ground between "shaming" and telling people "Your fat rolls are beautiful; you don't need to change at all!" I don't do either of these but I think the latter is actually worse to do.
Um, I am friends with overweight people. I love how you just assume you know everything about my feelings towards them from a couple sentences. Last edited by Chiibi on Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
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This is a strawman argument. Nobody is making that argument in this thread at all. |
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dark13
Posts: 562 |
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Chiibi
Posts: 4829 |
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.........yeah, I don't really understand that term so......
You just said I was fat-shaming because I said "they shouldn't be lied to". Which is hardly the same thing. |
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Juno016
 Posts: 2420 |
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A "strawman argument" is an argument making false assumptions about what your opponents in the argument are saying. I think here, Zac is trying to point out that the "Fat is beautiful, so don't change" idea is not as widespread as you think it is, and it's not being argued here. People know it carries health risks. But making fat jokes without regards to those who already feel guilt, discomfort, and shame regarding something they've struggled with in their life... definitely comes across as pretty jerk-like. There are ways of pointing out a problem, but ridiculing someone for the way they are is probably THE least efficient. |
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mangamuscle
Posts: 2658 Location: Mexico |
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If this argument (the nation is so big) had any weight, the overweight epidemic in the USA would have started at the dawn of the 20th century. Back then the distances were just as big and most people lived on the countryside. The refrigerator was invented back in 1927 and the Ford model T debuted in 1908 (and there were horse carriages before that) so by the 1950s both technologies were ubiquitous. BTW, the most obese countries atm are tiny: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_body_mass_index |
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Terrible90sDub
 Posts: 168 |
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I was speaking about rural areas more so than size alone (a small country can still be rural and have trouble connecting resources). I also didn't say that was the only reason and listed quite a few others which often intersect with it. A lot has changed in a short amount of time, such as how jobs have become less physical while processed food has become more common. Some of those countries have circumstances which aren't really comparable. (As for the era, while people - especially the wealthy - could have cars, you still hear older people say "I had to walk miles to school"... which doesn't really happen today.) Here's an article discussing the rural obesity rate being higher and some of the potential reasons for it for the curious: https://www.ruralhealthinfo.org/topics/obesity-and-weight-control#contributing-factors |
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relyat08
 Posts: 4125 Location: Northern Virginia |
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>You said Japan doesn't have an issue with shaming fat people because there is one show called IBO that exists which doesn't shame being fat. >You said using Darling in the Franxx, as an example of how Japan views fat people is wrong because it is "a bad show". >You provided an example of a show where a fat person is not ridiculed to prove that Japan doesn't have an issue with shaming fat people(I'd like to point out that they do regularly make jokes about how much he eats, and it is very much in the same vein as Darling in the Franxx in terms of the comedy they attempt to garner from it). >Another user noted that just as using one show that jokes about being fat as an example of how Japan views being fat is wrong, using another show that doesn't is equally flawed. >You go on a diatribe about how rare it is to see anime that treat fat people with respect, going as far as to call IBO a one of a kind show in regards to its respectful treatment of a fat character. If you don't see how you just completely contradicted yourself and gave tons of evidence to the "Japan does have a problem with shaming fat people" argument, I can't help you. |
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mangamuscle
Posts: 2658 Location: Mexico |
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Yeah, but those reasons apply just the same in the country or the city (albeit theoretically in the countryside you should have better access to fresh fruit and vegetables and working in a farm is still more labor intensive than blue collar jobs).
The USA "school bus" was invented in the middle 19th century. |
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Animeking1108
Posts: 1244 |
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Not everybody is blessed with thick-skin. However, not all of those people just own 20 acres of Safe Spaces. Autistic people (some, not all) can't take jokes by nature. |
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Terrible90sDub
Posts: 168 |
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You're still ignoring all the other factors listed that cause it to become more of a problem in rural areas. In more urban areas, health can improve because of sidewalks, access to parks, and gyms. Additionally, in most areas of a city, there's a wider variety of restaurants and grocery stores other than Walmart. (See also: That link above) I grew up in the rural Rust Belt... most people there are not eating fresh fruit and vegetables. Even a lot of farmers will grab fast food instead of cooking something for themselves, especially if they're busy all day taking crops off. Amusingly, I saw more farmers markets and healthier food when I moved to the city. Invented doesn't mean implemented in every school. |
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dark13
Posts: 562 |
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Edit funny enough the rest of the characters are eating in season 1 while Biscuit and Orga regular go and meet with Naze so i'm pretty confused about your statement right now also have you actually seen IBO ? because that comment was pretty much a straight up lie if you gonna make such a claim provide evidence like I did( ie episode links ) where Biscuit was treated like a "joke" spoiler alert tho you won't find it anywhere in season 1 because it doesn't exist go on I'l wait. Just to prove my point again I give you another episode as evidence for my argument https://youtu.be/PrEJpY-35lw?t=350 sooo funy right lol characters having a heart to heart ? LOLOL Joke character right ? and there are many more moments like that now compare that to what trash Darling in the Franxx is doing yeah If your smart I like to think I don't need to tell you who wins in terms of character. Last edited by dark13 on Tue Feb 27, 2018 5:14 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Crext
 Posts: 211 |
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It doesn't really matter that you've "reduce the amount of obesity with a statistical insignificant 1%" over the 7 year period. The fact that they've managed to keep the obesity rate at 3,5%, rather than having it increase, that deserves praise and should broadcast the policy as being successful!
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