Forum - View topicNEWS: Live-Action Sword Art Online Producer: Series Sold to Netflix, Will Have Asian Lead Actors
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BadNewsBlues
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....Goku isn't Asian even in the source material, like out of the entire cast of DragonBall there's probably only about 5 or 6 characters who you can call Asian and none of them are main characters.
This is the same logic that makes the usual arguments of "they never take any risks" come off as redundant. Even if a movie has a chance of failing and virtually all of them do that's not going to stop then from taking chances again and again nor should it.
Or or or the film can have a deuteragonist setup which is what I always think of whenever I see Asuna and whatever his name is on stuff relating to the anime. The thing you're complaining about would only be an issue for the "stop making men look bad" crowd.
Which to be fair had nothing to do with it's casting.
If we're talking stateside I like to think that movie bombed here largely because no one wanted to see a drama period piece,that featured an almost exclusively Asian cast, concerning something most people have never heard of. |
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Compelled to Reply
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By examples, I meant characters and/or series. You didn't answer my question. Also, lighter/paler shades isn't exactly a "distinctive" trait compared to those of blacks and other Asian anime characters. You talk as if they're drawn differently, like Canadians in South Park.
Yeah, except you also have foils of delinquents like ojou with said traits. You're telling me every character with such appearances is a delinquent, chuni, ojou, gyrau, etc.? One size doesn't fit all. I've watched plenty of anime to come to that conclusion.
Just because you claim I don't watch much anime and am projecting myself onto "your" culture doesn't give leverage to your statements either. |
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DerekL1963
![]() ![]() Posts: 1119 Location: Puget Sound |
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Re: Memoirs of a Geisha
Plenty of people wanted to read it, the book was a bestseller after all. More than likely it was the mixed reviews and that it was released against some pretty heavy hitters. That it was released seven years after the book (long after the book's popularity had passed) probably didn't help either. These things happen all the time - movies that should be at least modest hits, flop for any number of reasons. It's generally pretty hard to point to one cause as the cause. The world usually isn't that simple and black and white. |
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Lord Oink
Posts: 876 |
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Here's a couple https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dhrqT5sAIQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4MR25p6fBQ The way the foreigners are drawn obviously different from the rest of the cast. It's stuff even Japanese elementary school kids are expected to pick up on. |
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DamianSalazar
Posts: 747 |
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Prediction:
The real world would be set in America, Kirito and Asuna are Asian-Americans, the others however, will be a toss up. Klein: White Agil: Black Lisbeth: White Silica: Native American or mixed or Asian They will rewrite Suguha, they'll give the characters mentioned above slightly larger roles and not make them tokens (I'm black and I wouldn't want a token black character, I would prefer a character like Chef from South Park). and hopefully they'll correct anything wrong with the original. Disclaimer: I have only watched about 15 episodes of SAO. Can't get into it. |
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Compelled to Reply
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Except I assume those are minor characters, who of course aren't going to be drawn to the same standards of the main characters. Hell, often it's like they're traced, as with many Japanese filler characters who appear to have more Asian features. To an extent, it gives shows an interesting effect, with more focus on the main characters and their conventional anime features. Clearly, my point has been proven when anime and associated media like Fate, Full Metal Panic, Grisaia, Index, Infinite Stratos, and Sakura Wars have a chunk of main characters who are White, which you wouldn't know if you omit the names, certain cultural personal traits, and plot context based solely on the aesthetics of anime. |
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Chiibi
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I honestly never felt like that towards him at all. Kirito felt like any other protagonist struggling to survive a dangerous world to me. He was just actually better at it than others. lol |
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Chrono1000
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Agent355
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I am skeptical of your claim that general audiences have a problem with powerful male heroes altogether, because Hollywood is making more superhero movies and TV shows than they ever have before and most of them are men. Let's look at the ratios--Marvel has one Jessica Jones to 3 guys on Netflix, DC has one Wonder Woman to a Batman and a Superman (plus more men in the Justice League movie) in cinema, DC has one Supergirl to an Arrow, and a Flash on the CW, Marvel has...no solo female led superhero movies out yet, etc, etc, etc. If you're claiming superpowered male heros are a dying trend, explain how it's dying. Just because you might be annoyed that critics complain about it doesn't mean they've changed the entertainment business and the types of characters that get TV shows and movies. |
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Chiibi
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Oh they don't; it's really just people on tumblr....but tumblr cries about everything, really. ![]() Actually, I'd chalk it up to "the internet has a problem with a thing". What else is new? ![]() |
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Agent355
![]() Posts: 5113 Location: Crackberry in hand, thumbs at the ready... |
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I don't think there is anything wrong with the critics or the criticism--most of it is just pointing out that there are way more white male superheroes (and protagonists in general) than any other kind and asking for more variety. But claiming that the criticism and the slow addition of some female and minority heroes in the Hollywood mainstream puts white, straight male heroes in danger of disappearing or dying out is ridiculous. Do you really think Chris Evans or Hemsworth or any other Chris is in danger of losing their next job to Daisy Ridley or Gal Gadot? There's room for overpowered male AND female AND POC heroes because overpowered heroes are more popular than ever! Enjoy it before the bubble bursts and we have another decade drought of overpowered hereo movies (as we did between the Superman movies and the Keaton Batman movies, and between the Keaton Batman movies and the Maguire Spider-Man movies, etc)!
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Chrono1000
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Agent355
![]() Posts: 5113 Location: Crackberry in hand, thumbs at the ready... |
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That might be true, but it was also a reaction to the upside down version of the same lopsided criticism from the other side--there were plenty of fans and critics calling Rey a Mary Sue who didn't have a problem with similarly overpowered male heroes, so feminist critics pointed that out and doubled down. Since there is something like a 3:1 male:female ratio of overpowered characters in media, lopsided criticism is noticeable on both sides and becomes fodder for accusations of gender favoritism.
In any case, while the online discussions are interesting in seeing where people might be biased, I doubt it's really influencing Hollywood from shying away from strong male characters--they're just adding more strong female characters to the mix. Edit: Sword Art Online is a *perfect* example of this--it's not like Asuna had a minor role in the original in the first place, so why would wanting to increase her role be a big deal? They're not saying that Kirito will become a side character and she'll become the protagonist, they're just making her more of a deutoragonist. |
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GrayArchon
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They're going to want to appeal to as wide as audience as they can, yes. That does not mean that they don't care about, or don't want existing fans of the franchise. They'll want as many of those as possible to check it out, and help bring in other people. If they didn't care, they wouldn't be worried about making sure they cast Asians for the lead roles.
I'm not talking about the likes of Superman. I'm talking about the likes of Batman. Trained. Experienced. Strong. Intelligent. Characters like him that are logically well prepared for the adversity that they'll face, and can reasonably be expected to have at least a 50/50 chance of winning going into a confrontation. Some people are simply so used to unlikely heroes that they have difficulty wrapping their heads around likely heroes.
I guess I should have gone with a longer post before. One thing I'd considered saying but decided against is "If a character is too relatable, or isn't over the top enough, they get accused of being a self insert character". Which is something that tends to happen to Kirito. Kirito isn't a self insert character. He's not a blank, personality-less character designed for the reader to pretend is themselves. He isn't a flawless author avatar. It's entirely possible to root for him without thinking of yourself as Kirito. Characters don't need to be an underdog for you to root for them, that's just something that tends to make it easier for people to root for them. Nor does a character need to be a weakling to make them the underdog.
Like I said, it's only a portion, and it has nothing to do with feminists. There's a couple different but over lapping groups I'm thinking of, and they're the sort that would complain about characters like Rey or Erza as readily as Kirito. Let's see, how should I put this... There are stories like My Hero Academia or Naruto. Stories that start with the callow youth just setting out on their journey. Deku receives a power that lets him go to hero highschool and gives him the potential to become the greatest hero. Naruto graduates the ninja academy and becomes a genin. They are effectively powerless nobodies, unknown and unacknowledged as heroes. Through experience and extensive training over the course of the story, they become powerful and acknowledged. There are stories like One Piece or Bleach as well. To an extent those start teh same as MHA or Naruto, but they go a slightly different direction. They have Luffy and Ichigo lose a few times before winning. Often against the same foe, sometimes within the same arc, with varying justifications. There are also stories like Dragon Ball. Where Goku starts out ridiculously strong, before suffering a defeat meant to illustrate that the big fish/small pond effect is happening, and make him realize that there are stronger people out there that he needs to train for. Those are all ways various stories force underdog status on their protagonist. There's nothing wrong with that, those are useful tools that depend on the execution by the writer. However they aren't something that's required. There's nothing innately wrong with starting with Deku having graduated highschool and mastered his power, or Naruto starting with the strength, skill, and respect he's attained by the start of the first time skip. It's okay for Luffy and Ichigo to win the first time they encounter a foe. It's fine for Goku to be well aware from the start that there are people stronger than him, and for him to take losses in stride, not as a major revelation. What matters is that the hero is shown to struggle. Deaths and defeats can be helpful in establishing that struggle, but similarly aren't a requirement. However for the portion of audiences I'm thinking of, they think some combination of those things are required, or perhaps it's their preference to the point that for them it is required. When they encounter a story not employing those things, or not employing them in the way they desire, out come the complaints. Complaints such as "there needs to be a training arc", "they need to lose so they realize they're weak and need to train and get stronger", "they need to lose", "we need some deaths", "they only won because of the plot", "they're a Mary Sue/Gary Stu", et cetera ad nauseam. The complaints come even when the protagonist is at 1 HP by the time they win, or is encountering enemies they can't beat alone and need teamwork with their friends to beat. They come even when the protagonist has a back story that reasonably justifies their successes. However attempting to be responsive to those complaints will tend to push writers away from traditional heroes as that's the easiest way to increase the perceived struggle for the protagonist. |
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Chiibi
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YES. THANK YOUUUUUU People are always saying this about him and it drives me nuts. I don't get where they're coming from; it's like we watched/read two different series. As far as Kirito verses Rey..........uhm.... .......I like both? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ You know, I was watching the first Indiana Jones movie with my dad the other day and noticed he's "The Ace" type of character like Kirito is. He knows everything, he knows exactly how to avoid and escape traps and he has mad skillz and solving mysteries and puzzles. But people loooove him. Is it because he's a ripped, adult teacher and not a scrawny teenager? Idk. Age shouldn't factor that much into what makes a character well-written imho. Child prodigies do exist. |
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