Forum - View topicAnswerman - Why Do Discs Use Different Audio Formats?
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Just Passing Through
Posts: 277 |
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When it comes to lossy vs lossless, I agree that sometimes it makes practically no difference. But sometimes I can hear the difference straight away.
So do I watch Gankutsuou on DVD with its goregous unmolested visuals, but a tinny audio track that renders the glorious soundtrack subdued, muddy and hollow, or do I watch it on Blu-ray, with its rich, vibrant lossless audio, and its DNR travesty visuals? 1st world problem! |
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Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 7584 Location: Wales |
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If you really want to make fans mad, not including a particular track format when it is known to exist is the way to do it though, like having lossy audio on a disc in one region and lossless in another.
well, it got me to buy the Poemy DVD for the gimmicky 5.1 commentary :p I don't even have a 5.1 setup at moment (never got the gear set up after moving years ago, and currently using a soundbase under my TV). |
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mgosdin
 Posts: 1302 Location: Kissimmee, Florida, USA |
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I don't consider myself an audiophile, however I do have some very good 2-Channel Stereo equipment. I've run into some releases that don't have good audio, but usually that is a result of either poor source materials or questionable work during the mastering process.
AC3, like MP3, under most circumstances is not really distinguishable from the lossless formats. Of course that will always be disputed since it is fundamentally a "Good Enough" vs "Perfect" argument. I haven't fooled with 5.1 and the other home theater formats, my 2-Channel Stereo setups work just fine to hear all SFX in my anime. Mark Gosdin |
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Shiflan
 Posts: 418 |
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I've considered myself an audiophile for as long as I've been an Anime fan--close to 20 years at this point. I've used everything from a cheap hand-me-down TV to a fancy 5.1 surround system, to a high end stereo costing into the 10s of thousands of $$ and everything in between. I even was lucky enough to watch a few things in a privately owned home theater that was full-on T.H.X. certified by Lucasfilm that cost its owner well over a million $$. What I've learned over the years is that the quality of the hardware (preamp, amps, speakers, etc) is FAR more important than fancy "surround" setups or what encoding scheme is used on the disc.
You'll get a lot more enjoyment out of improving your system than you will trying to buy releases with the latest-and-greatest encoding schemes or "surround" formats. I used to own a fancy surroud home theater. I got caught up in the "5.1", then 7.1...etc... I sold it all and went back to a good solid stereo. Remember that you only have two ears. Your brain can work out all the "surround" effects from two stereo channels. Focus on good quality equipment there and don't fall into the endless trap of keeping up with the latest codec buzzwords. These days I set my player to plain ol stereo (linear PCM preferred) even on discs which have surround sound available. |
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halo
Posts: 356 |
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I'll be the first to agree that a higher bitrate AC3 should not be noticeably different than uncompressed/lossless but any lossy encoding can introduce errors and artifacts. I don't see any reason on Blu-ray to use lossy compression, if you need to compress the audio down that far you should bite the bullet and increase the disc count.
The problem now is that we have, for all intents and purposes, reached the point where the technology has surpassed the limits of the human ear. To sell new equipment and give the marketing people new BS to sell we're grabbing at straws like Dolby Atmos. |
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MarshalBanana
 Posts: 5522 |
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I have seen some audio options for JP 5.1, I do not know if it was something that got included in a re-release or what.
I just had a quick look through some of my collection, and fount 5.1 on both Samurai Champloo and Ergo Proxy, oddly not for Michiko to Hatchin or Samurai Flamenco. |
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Zin5ki
 Posts: 6680 Location: London, UK |
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Given the number of dated, pre-digital masters that constitute our cherished DVD collections, I view audiophilia with a detached curiosity. Do audiophiles suffer a distinct displeasure from listening to older material that has not been (or cannot be) remastered? The benefits of such discernment seem dwarfed by the disadvantages.
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crosswithyou
 Posts: 2900 Location: California |
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I know Funimation sometimes upscales (is that the correct word for audio?) stereo Japanese audio tracks to 5.1. Or was it 5.1 to 7.1? Either way, depending on the property, they sometimes go the extra mile to make sure the audio sounds better than the original they received from Japan.
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NJ_
 Posts: 3119 Location: Wallington, NJ |
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^The word you're looking for is upmix while upscale is usually meant for video.
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Just Passing Through
Posts: 277 |
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There was a time when Manga Ent used to whack every audio option onto their releases, turning some of them into 2 disc releases just to fit all the content. Even when the original source material was Japanese stereo, you'd still get it upmixed to DD 5.1 and DTS 5.1. Most of those 5.1 mixes sounded pant anyway, and it was better just to watch them in stereo. Even stuff like the first few volumes of Naruto had DTS 5.1!
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crosswithyou
Posts: 2900 Location: California |
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Thanks! I figured "upscale" only refers to video, but I didn't know the term for audio. |
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Shiflan
Posts: 418 |
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I can only speak for myself of course, but IMHO there is no "disadvantage" to discuss here. Whereas old cel animation can be remastered and released in a much higher resolution the same thing cannot be said for audio. The audio quality of a Blu-ray is no better than that of a DVD, CD, or laserdisc. Some audiophiles might argue that the uncompressed analog audio of a LD might even be preferable, though I cannot hear the difference myself. If anything audiophiles might argue that digital releases are worse than the alternative since some of them use lossy commpression. |
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Shiflan
Posts: 418 |
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Don't confuse adding extra channels with makinga anything "sound better". Some people think that, say, 7.1 must be "better" than 5.1 because hey, 7 is higher than 5! But that's far from true. No matter how many speakers you have you cannot add data to the audio tracks that was not originally present. Changing 5.1 to 7.1 isn't improving the qualty, it's just sticking a higher number there to try and upsell the product to a casual purchaser who doesn't really understand what's going on. The only way to make the audio sound better would be to go back and truly remaster it, and the hope the engineer does a better job than the original did. That is a very labor-intensive process. It might happen for a classic movie but I doubt anyone is doing that--especially for long-running series. The standard bitrate for digital audio hasn't changed in decades so this probably won't yield any improvement at all, unless you're talking about a very old show. |
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Ouran High School Dropout
 Posts: 440 Location: Somewhere in Massachusetts, USA |
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I'll take a crack at this. 
When it comes to DVD/Blu audio of older shows, I know to take the audio with a grain of salt; that is, I simply don't expect great fidelity from, say, a 25-year-old analog Japanese master--or the 20-year-old English dub of the same title, for that matter. If the disc is lucky enough to have lossless audio, I'm satisfied knowing that whatever is on the original master is (ostensibly) present. (As an aside, I love listening to restored soundtracks of old B/W Hollywood films--the pops and hum are gone, but the tinniness and lack of bass--all true to the recording technology of the day--is preserved.) As for the "original Japanese 2.0" vs. "multi-channel dub remix" question on anime discs, I've certainly experienced some problematic 5.1 remixes, especially on DVD. However, for today's anime productions on Blu, I've grown quite accustomed to Sentai's 2.0 DTS-HD Japanese/English tracks, more so than I thought I would. Disclosure: I've always been an audiophile to the (common sense) limits of my budget. My home system is 7.1, with all decoding done by the receiver. All speakers are wall-mounted to best advantage, given the room. And no, I won't be upgrading to Atmos. For the home, that's just very expensive overkill.
There is so much truth here, it's painful! |
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rizuchan
 Posts: 980 Location: Kansas |
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Question for anyone who has more experience with a variety of audio setups...
I've thought for a long time that anime dubs sound way too "quiet". Like I frequently have trouble hearing the voices over the sound effects and BGM. For the longest time I figured this was just poor mixing on Funimation (the usual offender)'s part, but could it be from playing their 5.1 audio tracks over a 2 channel stereo? Or am I just nuts/going deaf? |
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