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EP. REVIEW: DARLING in the FRANXX


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Hershey's



Joined: 06 Dec 2017
Posts: 27
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:29 pm Reply with quote
Chrono1000 wrote:

I have seen people say that A-1 is bad because they made SAO so there are people who have a dislike of the studio because they dislike some of the shows that they have produced.

People have been shitting on A-1 since they did Persona Trinity Soul and even before SAO they were behind garbage like Valkyria Chronicles, Fairy Tail, Night Raid, Black Butler, Fractale, Anohana and Togainu no Chi which was so bad and poorly produced that they cancelled the singles released of the 6 volume DVDs and opted for one cheap boxset instead.
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I agree with him and several A-1 productions have been very well animated.

I got nothing....
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Hershey's



Joined: 06 Dec 2017
Posts: 27
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:34 pm Reply with quote
yuna49 wrote:
Hershey's wrote:
[Shin Sekai Yori] was a mess. Had lots of bad art and animation throughout its entire run but had great background art

I remember watching that show and Space Brothers at the same time and wishing the artists illustrating the sky scenes in SSY could have worked on Space Brothers as well. It had those entirely unrealistic cartoony clouds while the skies in Shin Sekai Yori were often lovely to behold. The star-lit scene of Saki and Shun in the boat was stunning.

SSY felt like a production in which they had to make lemons into lemonade hence why you got a lot of weird shit throughout to mask the production issues it had (One episode ended with Maria being interviewed that looks straight out of a JAV) that made it very artsey as compensation. I say its a mess not as a bad thing because the visuals were the most striking thing about SSY in how it changed every single episode from being really bad to almost avant garde.
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vonPeterhof



Joined: 10 Nov 2014
Posts: 729
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:15 pm Reply with quote
Hershey's wrote:
Its that factory mentality that got an animator to kill himself due to overwork.

If you're going to invoke a person's death in your crusade, at the very least try to get details like their job title right. Considering that it's the production assistant's job to wrangle all those freelance animators against tight deadlines, who knows, getting that detail right might have actually strengthened your argument. (You're welcome.)

Hershey's wrote:
And you seem like the type of person in which any piece of art that's not off model is "well-produced"

Are you sure you're not projecting a little there? Because your posts seem to be underpinned by the impression that "off-model animation" necessarily means "bad animation". At the very least, that's my best guess for what your problem with the second piece of animation you linked to was.

(Speaking of which, I have no idea what's supposed to be so obviously wrong with the first one. Is it that the robots are smaller and less detailed when seen from a distance? Or that they're sliding instead of running? Could you elaborate?)

Incidentally, here's a good example of what might happen when a production team with very limited resources tries to prioritize staying on model above all else. Enjoy the (barely) moving cardboard cutouts!
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Chrono1000





PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:36 pm Reply with quote
Hershey's wrote:
People have been shitting on A-1 since they did Persona Trinity Soul and even before SAO they were behind garbage like Valkyria Chronicles, Fairy Tail, Night Raid, Black Butler, Fractale, Anohana and Togainu no Chi which was so bad and poorly produced that they cancelled the singles released of the 6 volume DVDs and opted for one cheap boxset instead.
Well the box set issue has also happened to Kinema Citrus with Kuma Miko. That A-1 makes so many shows each year means that it is not a surprise that they occasionally have a poor selling show. Also just to be clear I like Kinema Citrus and I am looking forward to The Rising of the Shield Hero.

Hershey's wrote:
I got nothing....
Well the top three examples I would use for animation quality are Anohana, Black Butler, and SAO. Granted it sounds like you dislike those shows but there is a difference between disliking a show and saying that the animation of the show was bad.
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Hershey's



Joined: 06 Dec 2017
Posts: 27
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:51 pm Reply with quote
vonPeterhof wrote:

If you're going to invoke a person's death in your crusade, at the very least try to get details like their job title right. Considering that it's the production assistant's job to wrangle all those freelance animators against tight deadlines, who knows, getting that detail right might have actually strengthened your argument. (You're welcome.)

Be it an animator or a production assistant doesn't change the fact that someone in the line of production died while working on a show which is a blemish to their own repuatation and the fact that you continue to defend them is quite discerning in itself.

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stuff

All I'm getting from your posts is that its not easy being blind.
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Incidentally, here's a good example of what might happen when a production team with very limited resources tries to prioritize staying on model above all else. Enjoy the (barely) moving cardboard cutouts!

Hilariously enough the first webm with the sliding robots is as well animated as the one from Dynamic Cord at the very least THAT show had production problems what's DARLING's excuse?
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Hershey's



Joined: 06 Dec 2017
Posts: 27
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 5:57 pm Reply with quote
Chrono1000 wrote:
Well the box set issue has also happened to Kinema Citrus with Kuma Miko. That A-1 makes so many shows each year means that it is not a surprise that they occasionally have a poor selling show. Also just to be clear I like Kinema Citrus and I am looking forward to The Rising of the Shield Hero.

Kuma Miko was just poorly received due to its ending which upset a lot of people, the rest of the show looked fine and it was doing relatively well up until the last episode where it dropped like a rock. Togainu was a complete disaster from an animation standpoint with episodes that were clearly not finished making it do air made it poorly received amongst fans.

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Well the top three examples I would use for animation quality are Anohana, Black Butler, and SAO. Granted it sounds like you dislike those shows but there is a difference between disliking a show and saying that the animation of the show was bad.

All three of those shows weren't well produced especially Black Butler which had QUALITY out the ying yang. I'm not sure why people keep saying that SAO was well priduced when there's video compilations of all its animation hiccups for years now since SAO is a target for everything wrong with anime according the normies.
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killjoy_the



Joined: 30 May 2015
Posts: 2474
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:11 pm Reply with quote
So I'm gonna cut in and ignore all this very interesting talk about other anime and just say that unless episode 3 actually explains how 02 is killing men with her robot-slash-sexual-metaphor I probably will drop this.
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vonPeterhof



Joined: 10 Nov 2014
Posts: 729
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:54 pm Reply with quote
Hershey's wrote:
Be it an animator or a production assistant doesn't change the fact that someone in the line of production died while working on a show which is a blemish to their own repuatation and the fact that you continue to defend them is quite discerning in itself.
The post you quoted was the first thing I’ve said on the subject of that suicide in this thread, if not this forum. Unless you’re conflating me with someone else, apparently questioning your ideas about good and bad animation constitutes a defence of A-1’s corporate practices. ‘Kay.

Hershey's wrote:
All I'm getting from your posts is that its not easy being blind.

Classy.

Also, “posts”? What other posts do you have in mind? Feel free to wade through my archives, I’ll wait Very Happy

(Not really, no, I’m going to bed now)

I wrote:
Could you elaborate?

Hershey's wrote:
Hilariously enough the first webm with the sliding robots is as well animated as the one from Dynamic Cord
See, that wasn’t so hard now, was it? Smile Could have even done it without bringing up other people’s not-yet-existent disabilities. I guess I could ask about why you think that that sort of sliding propulsion makes no sense for the robots in question in the show’s universe and can only be explained as a failure to animate a proper walking cycle, but that’s neither here nor there..
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青白



Joined: 30 May 2012
Posts: 184
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:27 pm Reply with quote
Hershey's wrote:
garbage like Valkyria Chronicles, Fairy Tail, Night Raid, Black Butler, Fractale, Anohana
.

Like, can you be anymore hateful than this? Anohana was not trash by a long shot, and everybody on the internet would agree with this, except of you.
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Hershey's



Joined: 06 Dec 2017
Posts: 27
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:31 pm Reply with quote
青白 wrote:
Hershey's wrote:
garbage like Valkyria Chronicles, Fairy Tail, Night Raid, Black Butler, Fractale, Anohana
.

Like, can you be anymore hateful than this? Anohana was not trash by a long shot, and everybody on the internet would agree with this, except of you.

Hyperbole much? A lot of people trashed Anohana, its an Okada show for pete's sake. Just because you were suckered in to the sappy story doesn't mean everyone else was.
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relyat08



Joined: 20 Mar 2013
Posts: 4125
Location: Northern Virginia
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:12 pm Reply with quote
Hershey's wrote:

Because people watch their works and notice how poorly animated the bulk of the are? Because people who are fans of a manga/game hate how they adapt their works (Blue Exorcist, Magi, Nanatsu no Taizai, Ace Attorney, Erased and even SAO)


The second part is not something you should be blaming them for and the first part is simply ignorance. Not trying to be confrontational, but thinking their works, in general, are poorly animated is born simply out of not understanding animation.

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That's quite the bold claim you're making and one that nobody will take seriously.


It's not a bold claim. Anyone who studies animation will tell you the same.
(Fun fact, as of a couple of months ago, I got paid to analyze animation, so I'm technically a professional animation critic. Smile )

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Wouldn't call any of these TOP LEVEL PRODUCTIONS especially Fractale, The Perfect Insider, Saekano and...Oreimo 2.


Than you'd be wrong, because, across the industry, they are considered as such, and throughout the animation community they are as well.
I'll also add Welcome to the Space Show, which I somehow forgot off the top of my head. An incredibly rich and fluidly animated film, created through a sponsorship between Aniplex, A-1 and a few other companies to train and help young animators cut their teeth(cause they are so soulless, amiright?).

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No. There's core staff within a given story that are moved around from project to project. A-1 is largely consist of freelancers who are not affiliated with A-1, do their share, get their check and get out meaning their production will never share the exact same staff between shows but will always never be consistently animated and that's their problem. Its that factory mentality that got an animator to kill himself due to overwork.


A-1 has several key teams of freelancers that they hire on a regular basis, usually brought together by a specific director, Kyouhei Ishiguro(occultic;nine and Your Lie In April) has his favorite team, and generally puts out very strong content, Tomohiko Ito(SAO, Erased) is another key director, and Atsushi Nishigori(Idolmaster and yes, Darling) is another.
Other staff members are important and show up consistently across their projects as well. This industry is heavily based on personal friendships and connections, so it doesn't really matter if someone is a freelancer or not. They go to work for their friends whenever they have a chance. Over the years A-1 has been a MASSIVE magnet for projects like this, with animators coming together to make their dream projects. Fate Apocrypha, headed up by some young guys who are all good friends, might prove to be another "team" within the A-1 wheel-house, with their digital animation approach and more free-form style. A-1, ironically, is perhaps responsible for some of the least factory-like productions in the industry because of their freelance nature. Friends come together on a consistent basis to make shows together and that freelance nature actually facilitates it!
Oh, and that was a production assistant who died, not an animator.(Edit: I just read vonpeterhof's comment, so I know you saw this. No need to respond.)


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Yet every single one of there works that come out per season are among the worst looking shows of their respective season yet people will praise Toei for getting their shit together on one episode of DBS. Funny how that works.


I'm not sure what Toei has to do with this, but you're just making stuff up now. A-1 has made bad looking shows before, but, for example, everything they're making this season is of at least decent quality, with Darling and Slow Start being potentially the best looking shows of the season.


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You sure you're not just speaking things out of air?


I've read enough interviews and spoken with enough animators and directors personally to guarantee my statements.

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Booru cherrypicks the sakuga moments of the show which isn't a prime indication of the actually quality in the show. Once again by your logic I can say that Black Clover is a "well-produced" show just by showing the booru of all its sakuga .


No, you could not say that Black Clover is a well-produced show based on the booru because it only has like 18 clips uploaded across 15 episodes. Did you miss my point the first time?
Also, as a visual production, Black Clover is not that bad. You've already proven that you don't know what good animation looks like, but now you're doing that thing where you confuse an animation studio for a scriptwriter again.


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So according to you Naruto, DBS and Black Clover are all strong production. Bear in mind This is the same episode of Franxx you're claiming is a strong production with this and this in its second episode.


There is no bad animation there. The mecha are driving across the ground. That's a function of their movement.
And that second clip is quite good. Very expressive and strong character acting that any animator should be proud of.
As for DBS, Naruto, and Black Clover, you are once again completely failing to grasp the point. 3-4 clips for a SINGLE EPISODE, is generally a sign of a strong episode. Nowhere did I say this referred to an entire show, and a show that is hundreds of episodes long having a couple hundred clips does not make said show inherently strong.
Naruto actually is an incredibly rich production though. It is the pinnacle of inconsistency, so I understand why many rag on it, but it has dozens of extremely strong episodes across its length.

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You can dislike the way it looks, by all means, but your opinion is in contrast to every animator, animation fan, and professional animation critic I've read in the last couple of weeks. This show is a bad production. See what I did there?


I think you screwed up your "comeback". lol
The difference is that I've spoken to animators, read animation critics, kept up to date with the sakuga reactions, and studied the animation myself. You definitely have not.
Simply attempting to negate what I say without any evidence does not somehow make you right.
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Key
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Joined: 03 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:13 pm Reply with quote
This is straying very off-topic, guys n' gals. Bring it back to relevancy to Darling in the FRANXX or this line of conversation will be ended.

And Hershey, if all you're going to do is exercise some mad-on vendetta against A-1 (for reasons I can't fathom), take it somewhere else. Although you have some fair points, some of your examples of supposed badness are so outlandish that it's hard to take you seriously.
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bemused Bohemian



Joined: 09 Jun 2009
Posts: 404
Location: central Mizzou (Moral Oralville)
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:53 pm Reply with quote
Sexual innuendo or no I'm really diggin' this show. Actually, if it wasn't for the subliminal "damn, she's got a fine ass" messages percolating thru my head when every team is on board I would find these team exercises as just another trite training scenario anime often uses to get an audience interested in the characters before battle.

Keep it up, Trigger....my interest sure is piqued.
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Cptn_Taylor



Joined: 08 Nov 2013
Posts: 925
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2018 4:30 am Reply with quote
James_Beckett wrote:


I'm going to have to disagree with this particular analogy, and the idea that the Evangelion comparisons shouldn't be made in general. While the nebulous intentions behind the Judeo-Christian imagery in Eva have been long documented, the clear and direct analogies FRANXX is making are much more difficult to write off as simple visual flourishes.


There are no analogies between the 2 shows, only 2 or 3 stylistic shots that reference a 23 year old anime.

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Disregarding the *many* shots, camera angles, and other cuts of animation that are either near or direct copies of shots from Evangelion and the Rebuild films, the first two episodes of FRANXX contain numerous other allusions to the Evangelion franchise. 02's character is a rather obvious amalgam of the three main girls of the Rebuild films, Rei, Asuka, and Mari. The concept of "not running away" has been brought up on multiple occasions in order to establish Hiro's character and arc, and many different aspects of this post-apocalyptic society, including the depiction of the mysterious organization of adults who are using the kids and their mechas to their own ends, can very easily be seen as a modern, remixed interpretation of NERVE, SEELE, etc.


As I understand it 02 can be read in japanese as "demon" which is what the horn girl character is. A demon. It's a play on words that is lost in the various foreign translations.
But don't try to see something that just isn't there. And to say 02 is an amalgam of Asuka, Rei and Mari is bullshit. 02 has nothing in common with those 3 characters. She's not in some kind of passive aggressive relationship with the male character, she's not some kind of mother figure for the male character. So where are you getting those silly ideas of her being an amalgam of all the female characters in evangelion ? Hiro is not Shinji. He's not running away, he's not a pussy, he wants to do but can't. Which is the diametrical opposite of stupid-shinji. Who's always running away but brought back to do what he doesn't want to do. As for the secret societies etc... for pete's sake they've been standard element in the mecha genre before you were even born (I bet on it).

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Then there are the FRANXX, whose operation is dependent on pilot synchronization (or "sync ratios", if you'll allow), can apparently only be piloted by children who have been specially selected and raised to fulfill their roles as Parasites. Even if we were to overlook the similarity in premise here, the way in which the robots are being used as blunt analogies for puberty and sexual development is the same motif that Evangelion made famous almost thirty years ago.


Fafner says hello. But no one in their right minds would say Fafner is an Evangelion clone/analogy. You're still trying to see things THAT AREN'T THERE.

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Now, if there were just a few allusions here and there, then I wouldn't think too much of it. As many people in the forums have mentioned nearly every giant robot show made after 1997 has been influenced by Evangelion in some form or another. However, the fact that the team behind FRANXX have gone so far out of their way to make such a large number of very clear references and allusions to Evangelion means that the more direct comparison of the shows does make sense from a critical context.


The original Fafner made a lot of references to Evangelion yet it is in no way shape or form an Eva clone. So your point being what ? That some shots somehow imply Trigger and A-1 are going to copy the whole Eva cookbook ? We're 2 episodes in and nothing beyond those 2 shots in any way shape or form screems EVA CLONE. Stop projecting your ideas that aren't supported by facts.

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Not only that, but I believe that the creators of DARLING in the FRANXX are themselves inviting the comparisons. A winking homage or a more direct reference every now and then can easily be justified as a simple shout-out from one anime to another. What FRANXX is doing, though, feels more like the creators are saying "Not only do we love Evangelion, but we have some things to say about some of the same themes and tropes Evangelion popularized, and we're going to use FRANXX to do it.


Rolling Eyes What FranXX is doing feels nothing like Evangelion. How can someone say the contrary when the characters don't share ANY DAMN TRAITS to those of Evangelion ?

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To make a long point short, I believe that FRANXX *wants* the audience to make these comparisons, and that doing so is a valid part of engaging with the series. Also, being a direct response/reaction to Eva doesn't make FRANXX a bad show, and doesn't necessarily have any bearing on how successful it will be as its own thing. It's just something to keep in mind as the show goes on. Smile


FranXX doesn't want the audience to make those comparisons that's you again projecting things that aren't there. Making some references to an almost quarter or century old anime doesn't imply analogy in terms of story or characters.
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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
Posts: 11584
PostPosted: Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:00 am Reply with quote
bemused Bohemian wrote:
if it wasn't for the subliminal "damn, she's got a fine ass" messages

Subliminal? Good lord, what would overt look like to you? Shocked
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