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Mr. sickVisionz
Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 2175
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 Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:44 pm
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Is the animation still by A-1?
| Joshua Zarate wrote: | | I truly wonder if it will be better if this upcoming show didn’t have Sword Art Online attached to it... |
It would gain less haters but also noticeably less lovers and buyers and viewers.
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Random Name
Joined: 24 Nov 2016
Posts: 649
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Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 3:55 pm
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Anyone know if this has romance elements like SAO? I like SAO but I'm just not a fan of the romance in it. I know I'm probably in the minority but I just always find it boring.
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zrnzle500
Joined: 04 Oct 2014
Posts: 3768
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Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 5:13 pm
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| Mr. sickVisionz wrote: | | Is the animation still by A-1? |
There is no information about the studio or staff right now AFAIK. The studio is less important than the staff anyhow, especially with the heavily freelance A-1.
While I was looking forward to this adaptation more than the third season, after last season's adaptation of Kino's Journey, I'd say they are about even for me now, as I'm not as confident in Sigsawa's writing as before.
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Chrono1000
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Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:02 pm
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| Nekelen Tinsley wrote: | | And I think where pass the point where a series doesn't get sh*t simply because it has a female lead cause that doesn't stop it from being bad. Although I do know people that are willing to glorify a series for the simple fact that it does have one so you might be right. |
I have noticed that when it comes to power fantasies some people get out the poisoned swords for shows with male protagonists while they get out the padded sticks for shows with female protagonists. That doesn't mean that there aren't issues with SAO but with every passing year this trend becomes a bit more noticeable.
| Calsolum wrote: | | Then the second season starts and everything likable about asuna has been stripped away to metaphorically turn her into damsel that kirito needs to save. And then the one time she tries to do something we get that psudo tentacle rape scene. And don't let me get started on the second villain I mean first season villain had a shitty end but this one had a shitty everything. |
I agree that parts of the Fairy Dance arc did go a bit far. I don’t think Asuna needing to be saved was a problem but the repeated threats of sexual assault and the tear licking villain were excessive when the villain was already planning to take over the world. At the same time though much of the criticism is about 5 minutes worth of content and later on Asuna does get her own story arc.
| Calsolum wrote: | | Also if anyone is interested in learning more about why SAO is 'bad' there's a few really entertaining and informative series on youtube, the ones I've watched myself were from 'mother's basement' (which helped me put into words and identify what it was exactly about the series that irked me) and I've been told 'digibro' has some extensive reviews. |
There are criticisms about the show I agree with and everyone has different tastes in terms of genre. It is just that the criticism of SAO gets into every thread about it and much of the hate for Kirito is often tied into him being a traditional male hero.
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CycloneSP
Joined: 26 Aug 2013
Posts: 32
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Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:32 pm
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| Chrono1000 wrote: | | There are criticisms about the show I agree with and everyone has different tastes in terms of genre. It is just that the criticism of SAO gets into every thread about it and much of the hate for Kirito is often tied into him being a traditional male hero. |
This, exactly. As I watched SAO week by week I loved the series because I finally had a protagonist that I felt I could finally root for. I had, only months prior, watched Accel World, and while it was a good show, I hated the MC just because of how weak he felt, and AW was not unique in this type of MC. It seems to have been a common trend of sorts that was starting to annoy me, which is why I was enamored with SAO simply because the MC was not only -capable- of accomplishing things, but because he went out of his way to accomplish things.
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Meongantuk
Joined: 03 Jun 2016
Posts: 358
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Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:33 pm
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| Random Name wrote: | | Anyone know if this has romance elements like SAO? I like SAO but I'm just not a fan of the romance in it. I know I'm probably in the minority but I just always find it boring. |
There's a 2 people (not the MC) that can be considered "couple" in a rather broad sense. Otherwise, no.
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Actar
Joined: 21 Nov 2010
Posts: 1074
Location: Singapore
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Posted: Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:03 pm
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| Calsolum wrote: | | Also if anyone is interested in learning more about why SAO is 'bad' there's a few really entertaining and informative series on youtube, the ones I've watched myself were from 'mother's basement' (which helped me put into words and identify what it was exactly about the series that irked me) and I've been told 'digibro' has some extensive reviews.
And finally hey even if I hate SAO for reasons that's no reason why you can't love it for other reasons. So please don't feel that I'm attacking anyone personally for liking this garbage. One man's trash is another man's treasure, just kidding. |
One of the huge reasons that SAO haters really get on my nerves is because many are doing it for the sake of positioning themselves as elitists and to distance themselves away from the "casuals". They try to embrace a sense of objectivity in order to validate and legitimize their position when in all honesty, the series is fine (and there's no such thing as objectivity to begin with). OP characters and tentacle rape have a place and have their audience. Every "flaw" that has been pointed out is literally just another subjective opinion that is born out of a biased view of the various anime tropes that the series employ and a letdown of expectations. But they use them as excuses to explain why others shouldn't be enjoying themselves watching it or should feel bad for doing so. To a point, it just becomes ridiculous. Now, it's the cool thing to hate on it for the sake of hating on it.
The beautiful, ironic thing is that it gives the series more exposure and allows more sequels to be made. For that, I thank the haters. Thank you for making something you hate all the more popular. As many have said before, if you truly hate something, just ignore it.
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Chrono1000
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Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:45 am
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| CycloneSP wrote: | | This, exactly. As I watched SAO week by week I loved the series because I finally had a protagonist that I felt I could finally root for. I had, only months prior, watched Accel World, and while it was a good show, I hated the MC just because of how weak he felt, and AW was not unique in this type of MC. It seems to have been a common trend of sorts that was starting to annoy me, which is why I was enamored with SAO simply because the MC was not only -capable- of accomplishing things, but because he went out of his way to accomplish things. |
I think a lot of the Kirito hate has to do with political correctness which requires the male hero to be significantly flawed and to be either foolish, stupid, weak, or some combination of the three. In comparison a traditional male hero is great at what he does and is meant to be inspirational. Of course political correctness does not require female heroes to have significant flaws and that double standard is starting to become obvious. Kirito is the 21st century version of Beowulf, Gilgamesh, or Hercules and ironically because he is a confident male hero that saves the day he is hated because of it. The traditional male hero is now regarded as sexist because political correctness has become anti-male. I think the female protagonist in the spin off is a good character but there is a reason that people are cheering an SAO spin off that doesn't have Kirito in it.
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zrnzle500
Joined: 04 Oct 2014
Posts: 3768
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Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:17 am
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^I’ve known a number of SAO haters, including one of my former coworkers, and they were nobody’s idea of politically correct. I’d say criticism of Kirito is about characterization and naught to do with his gender. Kirito is not as well characterized as Hercules, Gilgamesh, or Beowulf, nor were the characters without significant flaws, particularly the former two (Hercules had to go one his 12 labors because he was driven mad and murdered his family). They all go off and kill monsters but crucially there was more to it than that. Now I like the show and I don’t hate Kirito, but there is valid criticism of the show which is not rooted in “political correctness.”
And the idea that similar female characters aren’t criticized is belied by the very origin of the term Gary Stu, which is often used to describe Kirito and similar male characters, being the male form of the term Mary Sue, which as you would surmise refers to female characters, which are OP and mysteriously attract the attention of the opposite sex and that’s it in terms of characterization. You see the terms “bland self insert” used in criticism of reverse harems about as much as harems.
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R315r4z0r
Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 717
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Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 1:39 am
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I don't mean this to sound defensive. I just wanted to offer counterpoints to what has already been said. To each their own.
| Calsolum wrote: | | However very soon we notice that Kirito is a 'perfect' protagonist and harem magnet and the only time he fails is to sorta convince him that being a loner is the safer route. |
This, actually, isn't true. Though I can't fault you (or anyone else, for that matter) for noticing this.
There are descriptive flaws in how Kirito is observed. But that is due in part to two reasons:
1. The way Reki Kawahara wrote Kirito as a character. (primary reason)
2. The anime's depiction of Kirito.
Both those reasons relate, so I'll try and explain it as one idea. Basically Kirito, in the LNs, spends a lot of time monologging. Inner thoughts, narration, etc. Kirito is designed to be the reader's eyes into the story. That said, whenever the story isn't told from Kirito's perspective, the character has a tendency to end up seeming cooler than he is intended to. For instance, he will stumble though thoughts on what to do and he often panics a lot. He does end up usually making the correct decisions, but only after turning the situation over in his head many times. That's how Kirito is in the LNs, but it certainly isn't how he seems in the anime. Reki Kawahara even admitted this in one of his Progressive novel afterwards where Kirito was part of a chapter where Asuna was the reader's perspective.
Suffice to say, an anime doesn't require the type of narration and perspective that a novel does. And SAO isn't a "thinking" type anime, like, say, Death Note or Code Geass. So having Kirito monologue his inner thoughts would break the pacing of the show. And, as you might have already realized, that leaves Kirito looking cooler than he is actually intended to.
| Calsolum wrote: | | ...The in the mid-season finally he beats the last boss in one of the most absurd ways possible and the villain admits that he forgot why he became perhaps the most infamous kidnapper in history and ruined and killed so many lives of practically every targeted population: Men, Women, Children and the elderly. Like WTF kayaba |
He "not remembering" isn't to be taken literally. Note that SAO is based off a LN series... and the reasons behind Kayaba's actions are the backbone for a lot of what has still yet to be animated. Basically, there is more to the story. Case and point: why do you think that the title of the series is called Sword Art Online even though most of the series is spend in OTHER games (one of which doesn't even have swords at all)? It's because the grand plot of the series is to learn the reasons behind the SAO incident.
| Calsolum wrote: | |
Then the second season starts and everything likable about asuna has been stripped away to metaphorically turn her into damsel that kirito needs to save. And then the one time she tries to do something we get that psudo tentacle rape scene. And don't let me get started on the second villain I mean first season villain had a shitty end but this one had a shitty everything. |
I don't really think that's fair a fair assessment. Nothing was stripped away from Asuna. (Though, the anime doesn't really do the best job at showing exactly how much of a fight she actually puts up... again, monologues and details that would make for a boring anime) She remained just as capable as she always had been and will continue to be in future developments.
She literally has her mind held prisoner. She almost managed to escape on her own, had she not have gotten too involved investigating the area. I mean... what exactly do you expect her to do?
Anyway, I just wanted to make those counter points. After reading the LNs you see the anime series in a different way. Not in that it's better or worse, mind you. Actually, the anime does a very good job at adapting the LNs. The issue is details and the inability for the anime to visualize narration. It's basically the kind of stuff that is just lost in translation... or, in this case, adaptation.
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Mr. sickVisionz
Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 2175
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Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:50 am
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| zrnzle500 wrote: | | The studio is less important than the staff anyhow |
I like the animation in A-1 shows. The day I see a trash looking A-1 show is the day I'll consider no longer checking for their name. Until then, it's important to me. To each their own.
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zrnzle500
Joined: 04 Oct 2014
Posts: 3768
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Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 12:19 pm
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| Mr. sickVisionz wrote: |
| zrnzle500 wrote: | | The studio is less important than the staff anyhow |
I like the animation in A-1 shows. The day I see a trash looking A-1 show is the day I'll consider no longer checking for their name. Until then, it's important to me. To each their own. |
Ah, I see. Some don't have as high an opinion of A-1, and think the opposite when they see the A-1 name associated with a production, and I thought you were one of them. Personally I find their work very staff dependent, but I do think they have done some good work, and for SAO, that has not been a problem, at least with regard to the action scenes.
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Chrono1000
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Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:53 pm
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| zrnzle500 wrote: | | ^I’ve known a number of SAO haters, including one of my former coworkers, and they were nobody’s idea of politically correct. I’d say criticism of Kirito is about characterization and naught to do with his gender. Kirito is not as well characterized as Hercules, Gilgamesh, or Beowulf, nor were the characters without significant flaws, particularly the former two (Hercules had to go one his 12 labors because he was driven mad and murdered his family). They all go off and kill monsters but crucially there was more to it than that. Now I like the show and I don’t hate Kirito, but there is valid criticism of the show which is not rooted in “political correctness.” |
I might have gone a bit far in comparing Kirito to classic heroes but while they had flaws those flaws were usually related to hubris because of their great power. The traditional male heroes were assertive, confident, and resolute in a way that is rare in modern male heroes. To be fair there are issues with the story in SAO, especially the Fairy Dance arc, but I think that political correctness does partly explain why Kirito is such a lightning rod for criticism.
| zrnzle500 wrote: | | And the idea that similar female characters aren’t criticized is belied by the very origin of the term Gary Stu, which is often used to describe Kirito and similar male characters, being the male form of the term Mary Sue, which as you would surmise refers to female characters, which are OP and mysteriously attract the attention of the opposite sex and that’s it in terms of characterization. You see the terms “bland self insert” used in criticism of reverse harems about as much as harems. |
There is criticism of female heroes from people on forums but it doesn't reach the tsunami of hate that you see for Kirito and the criticism is rarely related to their confidence or power. Just to be clear it is not that I want to see more criticism it is just that there is a growing difference in how the hero of a story is treated depending on their gender.
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zrnzle500
Joined: 04 Oct 2014
Posts: 3768
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Posted: Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:11 pm
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^Any criticism I've seen of Kirito as a Gary Stu character was not because they found such characters sexist or whatever, but because they found him and such characters to be bland, uninteresting, unrelatable, and poorly characterized in general. I've never seen him criticized for being assertive, confident, or resolute. There is no need to try and twist the reasons for criticism of Kirito and the show into anything other than the people in question think the show and/or character are bad. Full stop. That is all I will say on the topic.
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