Forum - View topicINTEREST: Japanese Translator Explains Why Otome Games Fail in U.S.
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katscradle
Posts: 469 |
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That actually sounds fun. Maybe I'll go waste some money. (I haven't played anything in so long but this article.) Not sure what appeal such a game may have needs anything to do with a real divorce rate. There are so many TV series with characters that don’t get divorces and have affairs too. I seem to remember fairly recently there was a show in the US that was adapted from the UK about married women stepping out. There was a similar Japanese live-action series I remember being available that was translated in English too. As much as I respect Velvet Toucher, and wouldn’t argue against her having a unique perspective, this article comes off a little silly. Hey ANN Maybe someone should have noticed her tweets around BishounenCon about the style differences between Japanese and American comics instead. I’m going off of memory but she put forth something like the idea of foreign fans ability to easily feel as if they were the characters in Japanese comics more than the dominant hyper realistic comics in the West is part of what makes Japanese animation and comics so popular around the world. That whole view of the meshing of fantasy and reality kind of makes sense why she would say this doesn't sell because the characters don't act enough/ are desirable enough the way the player would feel in real life. |
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Heishi
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Funny, I could make the same argument that any form of media that portrays a male character as weak, fragile, sensitive, timid, and *gasp* might even be a damsel it would be accused of promoting "male pussification". See how ridiculous that would sound, too? |
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Cetais
Posts: 507 |
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Hatoful Boyfriend is by far one of the best VN I've played. You should play it to the end, you'll see why.
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Slashman
 Posts: 253 |
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Well if you include real life, thousands and thousands of real women the world over including America. Women make bad relationship choices all the time, as do men. Everyone talks a good game about how the modern, independent woman would never fall for a jerk but that is a far cry from the truth. The human heart does not operate on logic as much as we would really like it to. |
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xBTAx
Posts: 189 |
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Is this article about mobile games only? Because that's what it seems to be, and should probably be edited to clarify that.
It's my understanding that Vita otome games have actually sold extremely well in the West, and better than other VN releases, even. So maybe this applies to mobile f2p titles, but that doesn't seem to be the case in general.
None of those are "meme games". Hatoful is absurd and comedic, sure, but it's also very well written and much more than its gimmick! I haven't played Dream Daddy, but I've heard it takes itself seriously despite the comedy. And though I actually don't think DDLC is very good, I still think it was very sincerely made and more than just a "meme game". |
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Titus-A
 Posts: 53 |
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I find it strange that Americans don't like weak protags in games but in movies and TV shows, they adore the pathetic, weak, nerdy, dweeb. Spiderman, Harry Potter, the Elves in LotR. Action heroes nowadays are mostly scrawny little tech-oriented sticks compared to the macho get your hands dirty men of the 80's.
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leafy sea dragon
 Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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The thing is that those dweeb protagonists that catch on also have some redeeming traits, such as a compulsion to do what's right and the ability to think through situations and create strategies. They also either become empowered or they discover hidden powers that put them on equal footing with their adversaries. That is, they are active characters, big movers in their plots, but they are also humble, courteous, and empathetic. That is why they're relatable. The reason why that female protagonist archetype isn't well-liked in the west is because she's incredibly passive. She lets the other characters move the plot for her and influence her nature and behavior. She gets abused, pushed around, and bullied, and she doesnt do anything about it. In other words, what people don't like about a protagonist when they refer to him or her as "weak" is that he or she is submissive. Characters like Peter Parker, Yugi Mutou, Gru, Sheldon Cooper, and Twilight Sparkle are dorky and strongly lean toward intelligence over strength, but they are most certainly NOT submissive. Other characters may push them around who are more powerful than they are, but they resent it and don't just accept it in the way the otome protagonist as discussed in this article would. |
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SWAnimefan
Posts: 634 |
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What was said by Gene pretty much is what I've observed for a long time. And I apologize if what I'm about to say offends someone.
For a long time Japanese women been typecasted as the submissive woman and the Japanese man is viewed as stoic and strong. Which as mentioned prior on this page, their idea of romance is viewed as monochromatic and not romantic to the Western World. Especially when the men are aggressive than supportive. But ironically, in the West, this is similar to the Bad Boy type of personality, where Western women like a little "spice" in their lives. But the difference between the two, the Japanese type has absolution in dominance, while the Western, the bad boy tends to express his love. That is why Japanese women have been favoring more of Western-style of romance. Where her love can be shared with the guy she loves. And in a way this discussion reminds me of the pairing wars with the Naruto series, where this was often brought up of the SasukexSakura pairing. Some liked this pairing because Sasuke was viewed as the bad boy western type, but those opposed saw the pairing as being the Japanese type of romance. While we can debate about this, it really reflects the two different romance-styles. |
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Slashman
Posts: 253 |
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What I find ironic is that the Bad Boy personality is pretty much almost always just bad.
A lot of women will happily delude themselves into thinking that they've really got a diamond in the rough when they are holding onto a chunk of dried dung. I have seen this happen too many times, and there are way too many cases of domestic abuse in the west for anyone to smugly taunt Japanese Otome heroines for weakness while smugly stating: "Who would fall in love with that type of character?" And for the record, Sasuke was, and still is, a jerkwad. He treated Sakura like crap for years and then neglected to be there for his own daughter growing up or to see her through so many of the things that a father should help with. But it was A-OK because after years of absence he flicks her forehead and that conveys all his love and support along with a half-emotionless smirk. |
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whiskeyii
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This just screams false equivalency; there are far, far more complicated issues at play in real-life domestic abuse than just "someone fell for a Bad Boy IRL", and trivializing domesitc abuse by suggesting that its mere existence excuses weak Japanese otome heroines just strikes me as so deeply misguided it borders on offensive. Although yes, Sasuke is a dyed-in-the-wool jerk and shouldn't have ended up with anyone. |
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Slashman
Posts: 253 |
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I"m not suggesting that multiple and complex issues do not surround domestic abuse. And by the way, I'm not simply talking about physical abuse here either which is inexcusable on any level, I'm talking about abusive relationships on the whole. I have personally seen too many of my female friends and relatives for that matter walk straight into relationships with individuals who showed obvious signs of being bad for them and with advanced warning in several cases. I don't have an issue with western audiences not liking those heroines in otome. I do have an issue with the smug sentiment that 'No woman would ever fall for someone like the male love interests in Otome games'. It happens too freaking often for that to be the case. It's fine if those female heroines make you uncomfortable. It is bullcrap to pretend that individuals like that don't end up in long term relationships. They also go on to have families and pass on their bile to future generations.
And yet ANN featured an article on how Sasuke was really a good father and guy afterall. |
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Stampeed Valkyrie
 Posts: 840 Location: PA |
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Interesting article.. never played an Otome game, probably never will.
However VN's are a niche market.. and Otome games are a niche market within a niche market. Some people just can't get past the idea of a VN.. let alone spend enough time exploring different genre's. |
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whiskeyii
Posts: 2256 |
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I think you and I walked away with different interpretations of that "smug" attitude; for me, I took it as "no one would ever find these love interests appealing in a game, why are they even here?" instead of "no one would ever find these kinds of people appealing in real life". I think the degree of separation necessary for games makes the "wow this guy is a jerk" red flags much more readily apparent than in real life, where feelings and emotional manipulation muddies the water. Either way, I think your point is fair (and wow, do you have all the sympathy from me on behalf of your female friends and family), I just think we were discussing different points entirely. |
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nogara119
Posts: 24 |
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There's also the fact that certain fans will scream 'FUJOBAIT' as well. But, you're wrong about why Otome games don't sell in the states though. I mean...I wouldn't call the men of Hakuoki 'pussies' 
The only otome game that I've played to the point of buying everything was Yoshiwara something...I forgot the name but it was basically the MC winds up in the Yoshiwara District and finds herself surrounded by male geishas/courtesans basically. They were supposed to make a sequel game licensed here, but I never did see it for American audiences. |
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Slashman
Posts: 253 |
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Yeah apologies from me too. I definitely interpreted the statement to mean 'in real life'. And yeah it is kind of a sore point with me for just the reasons mentioned above. Seen it a few too many times. |
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