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Answerman - Why Aren't Opening And Ending Themes Subtitled?


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Tripple-A



Joined: 21 Feb 2017
Posts: 383
Location: Hamburg, Germany
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:09 pm Reply with quote
And that's another reason why crunchyroll and similiar suck and we need to get the fan subs back.
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BadNewsBlues



Joined: 21 Sep 2014
Posts: 6267
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 5:59 pm Reply with quote
Zin5ki wrote:

How fondly I recall insisting with someone that its final line was "Shooby dooby doo shooby dooby doo durul", in strict opposition to their claim that it was rather "Shooby dooby doo shooby dooby doo do-doo". No matter how trifling the contention, there was always something over which to pontificate!


Doesn't sound as bloody and fiery as the debate over how Alucard should be spelled.
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EmperorBrandon
Encyclopedia Editor


Joined: 04 Oct 2002
Posts: 2215
Location: Springfield, MO
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:46 pm Reply with quote
angelmcazares wrote:
But English subtitles and "karaoke" lyrics are present on disc releases; I think NISA (Justin Sevakis authors discs for them) even puts both subtitled tracks on screen at the same time.

For a few years now, though, FUNi has pretty much dropped doing "karaoke" lyrics. They only do translation subtitles on recent discs as far I know (but most other companies alternate or do both)
DmonHiro wrote:
I for one I very grateful that songs aren't translated. ESPECIALLY insert songs. It gets in the way of the animation. And don't remind me of that crap fansubs used to do where they'd have one line for the romaji one for the karaoke and one for the English. THREE lines of text obstructing the picture. Hardsubbed, of course. The epitome of stupidity.

If they are soft subs (which they almost always are), you can just turn them off. I'm still a little irritated that not all of the insert and special ending songs in Watamote were subbed on Sentai's release (the one in episode 11 was pretty meaningful and should have been).

Last edited by EmperorBrandon on Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
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ninjamitsuki



Joined: 15 Sep 2007
Posts: 633
Location: Anywhere (Thanks, technology)
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 6:51 pm Reply with quote
I remember fansubbers absolutely struggling trying to decipher the ED to Higurashi back in the day.

I want to be river in life~
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DmonHiro





PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 7:55 pm Reply with quote
EmperorBrandon wrote:
If they are soft subs (which they almost always are), you can just turn them off.

Ha ha.... you can turn them off NOW. Back in the days they were hardsubbed.

Well... you COULD turn them off now if people still used them. Keep in mind I'm not talking about just having lines of text. I'm talking about having multi-colored-spinning-color-changing lines.
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Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor


Joined: 25 Oct 2003
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Location: Wales
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 8:38 pm Reply with quote
Just remembered something posted on Danbooru a decade ago. Took some digging as all the old amusing screenshots like this have been purged:

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Kadmos1



Joined: 08 May 2014
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Location: In Phoenix but has an 85308 ZIP
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 9:42 pm Reply with quote
If piracy can ever have justification, it would be things such as music right issues and the business methods that Hulu, Netflix, and Amazon do for simulcasts. OK, if that is never justified, let's consider this: if piracy is always theft, then shouldn't retroactive copyright extensions and copyright restorations be considered theft from the public domain?

If Berne Convention countries want to achieve a harmonized copyright, then each member would have a similar copyright length for each item that can be copyrighted (+/- 5 years).
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Zalis116
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Joined: 31 Mar 2005
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Location: Kazune City
PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 11:51 pm Reply with quote
The time-crunch/red-tape explanation for lack of OP/ED subs on simulcasts is perfectly reasonable, but it rings a bit hollow when CR and other sites pick up back-catalogue titles from a few years back and the songs still aren't translated. Same with the increasing numbers of home video releases with untranslated songs, or bizarre cases like AKB0048, where the CR streams had translated insert songs with untranslated OP/ED, but the Sentai discs had the opposite -- translated OP/ED, untranslated insert songs. It almost makes me believe that companies would rather not bother with songs if they had their way, and are hoping that years of unsubbed songs on simulcasts (and the bootleg streams that repackage them) have "trained" enough viewers not to expect songs to be translated.

Shiroi Hane wrote:
Just remembered something posted on Danbooru a decade ago. Took some digging as all the old amusing screenshots like this have been purged:
Funny story: when I reworked those very deficient fansubs and re-released that series, I looked up the lyrics, essentially re-translated the OP from scratch, and still got things wrong until someone told me about pillow words. Hopefully if some company like Discotek/Media-Blasters (c'mon, it's got a YamiBou crossover!)/Sentai decides to pick up Touka Gettan, they can do it better justice than I did, whether in song translations or otherwise.

Another fansub song mistranslation that comes to mind is from Ali Project's Avenger OP, where the lyric was "toki wa issen ichiya ma no miyako," and the fansub version had "time flows only one way, that's for sure." Bandai version: "A moment lasts 1001 nights in the devil's capital." And songs by MELL in shows like Black Lagoon and Sky Girls may as well be guessing games, due to all the Engrish involved. Due to the talent drain in the current "fansubbing" scene, it's no wonder many releases don't even try and translate songs until the singles come out, once 4-5 episodes have aired.
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MiloTheFirst



Joined: 10 Dec 2014
Posts: 429
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:18 am Reply with quote
Quote:
The songs that are included in an anime don't need to be negotiated separately in order to be included in a stream, because each streaming service pays a blanket royalty to ASCAP or a similar performing arts organization that authorizes them to play virtually any professionally published song from around the world


This I knew was the case for web radios and other similar services, but does it really apply to songs contained inside a video production? as far as I know, the (anime) producers already paid to have the song (opening or other) or part of it inside the episode, and upon being signed, it is already part of their product. that would also be part of the reason why most of the time one can find the show's tv-length versions inside the OST but the "full" version is only sold apart as a single
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SheRrIs





PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:20 am Reply with quote
Shiroi Hane wrote:


There version I have is this:


May be wrong as well. Laughing
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Triltaison



Joined: 03 Jul 2011
Posts: 791
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:34 am Reply with quote
Zalis116 wrote:
Same with the increasing numbers of home video releases with untranslated songs, or bizarre cases like AKB0048, where the CR streams had translated insert songs with untranslated OP/ED, but the Sentai discs had the opposite -- translated OP/ED, untranslated insert songs.


This drove me NUTS. It made the crux of the show unintelligible. I skipped the streams and watched it on disc first, which meant the meaning of every song was lost within the context of the show. Kind've a big deal when the whole point of the show is the music, and I still think those discs should be replaced with ones that actually have a full subtitle track.
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Sakagami Tomoyo



Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Posts: 943
Location: Melbourne, VIC, Australia
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:26 am Reply with quote
Huh, I always figured it was purely a time/effort thing where there was basically no time for anything non-essential such as song lyrics, which are much more troublesome than dialogue to translate.

Tripple-A wrote:
And that's another reason why crunchyroll and similiar suck and we need to get the fan subs back.

Yeah, nah. For all the problems there are with Crunchyroll and similar, they pale in comparison to the horrendously awful translations and other crap that came with fansubbing. Sure a really good fansub was great, but those were rare. Song translations are nice, but not worth having to put up with the other crap - especially when half the time the song translations are just wrong.
DmonHiro wrote:
I for one I very grateful that songs aren't translated. ESPECIALLY insert songs. It gets in the way of the animation. And don't remind me of that crap fansubs used to do where they'd have one line for the romaji one for the karaoke and one for the English. THREE lines of text obstructing the picture. Hardsubbed, of course. The epitome of stupidity.

One of the examples of crap. For the most part, what the fansubbers did was in aid of stroking their own egos, rather than what would actually enhance the viewing experience.
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yuna49



Joined: 27 Aug 2008
Posts: 3804
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:38 am Reply with quote
I was surprised to see lyric translations for the OP/ED songs when I started watching series on Anime Strike. Might this indicate Amazon has more clout with production committees than does Crunchyroll? Isn't Amazon actually now on the committees for some shows?
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Kadmos1



Joined: 08 May 2014
Posts: 13614
Location: In Phoenix but has an 85308 ZIP
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 10:02 am Reply with quote
Because of music rights, that's sometimes a Japanese company resort to using public domain songs. What will be copyrighted is a particular performance or recording of said song. Now, the potential hypocrisy is that that company is probably unwilling to have some of their titles from 55+ years enter the public domain until a few decades later from 2017.
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leafy sea dragon



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Posts: 7163
Location: Another Kingdom
PostPosted: Sat Sep 02, 2017 12:48 pm Reply with quote
Shiroi Hane wrote:
Just remembered something posted on Danbooru a decade ago. Took some digging as all the old amusing screenshots like this have been purged.


What? Are you telling me trees aren't important? They're VERY important. The building you're in likely has wood in it...which is made from TREES!

yuna49 wrote:
I was surprised to see lyric translations for the OP/ED songs when I started watching series on Anime Strike. Might this indicate Amazon has more clout with production committees than does Crunchyroll? Isn't Amazon actually now on the committees for some shows?


I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case, considering Amazon's pretty well-known in Japan. I do wonder if Netflix has managed to get onto production committees too.
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