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Merxamers
Joined: 09 Dec 2013
Posts: 720
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Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:00 pm
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While this is probably a licensing/shareholder move for Sony (like their announcement of all those terrible Spiderman spinoff properties they announced), i'll be the dissenting opinion here; i hope this DOES happen
I can't wait to see how a major studio adapts this; i imagine it will stick to the first part (the Macross chapter) and leave out the convoluted later stuff, but man; a live action, American movie where humanity's only hope against giant space aliens is pop music? Can you imagine?! I'd love for that movie to even EXIST in cinemas.
Even better; i hope Harmony Gold releases all the other Macross series as well, editing them into the Robotech brand. Give me Robotech II! Robotech Plus!! Robotech Delta!!!!! Tell me how they fit in to all those other unrelated series! Add MORE unrelated series!!!
All you purists can froth in the mouth all you want, but this is the kind of insanity i want to see more of. And hey; maybe it will be good! The original Macross is a super melodramatic romance in space with a lot of silly sci-fi ideas; just mix Top Gun with Guardians of the Galaxy with some original pop music and BAM; modern summer blockbuster
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Beatdigga
Joined: 26 Oct 2003
Posts: 4496
Location: New York
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Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:07 pm
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That's assuming they can even get the rights.
It's been repeatedly established that the situation is so bad and so petty no one can throw money at it and end it because it's about pride.
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DeTroyes
Joined: 30 May 2016
Posts: 521
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Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:41 pm
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I made my peace with Robotech years ago. It was a problematic adaption at best, but the fact remains it jump started anime fandom in the US and was the first US adaption to truly showcase the kind of drama and story telling anime is known for. Before Robotech, anime adaptations were always dumbed down, often ludicrously ("Those evil robots look just like humans!" "The planet was destroyed but thank goodness we evacuated everyone in time!" "After the battle my brother joined a space colony and went off to a far distant planet, so I lay flowers at this memorial I erected to him as a tribute!"). After Robotech, there was a much more general appreciation for the kind of storytelling anime could produce, and it created what I can only describe as a desperate hunger for more. I think anime fandom today owes a huge debt to the demand Robotech almost single-handedly created.
But having said that... everything Harmony Gold has done since has been a disaster, and the way they've manhandled ownership of the Macross franchise outside of Japan is just dreadful. I have no idea what their contract with Tatsunoko says, but the sooner they lose their rights the better. The fact that they have not been able to get ANYTHING off the ground in 20+ years speaks volumes about their competence.
Merxamers wrote: | Even better; i hope Harmony Gold releases all the other Macross series as well, editing them into the Robotech brand. Give me Robotech II! Robotech Plus!! Robotech Delta!!!!! Tell me how they fit in to all those other unrelated series! Add MORE unrelated series!!!r |
They're already not that far from Robotech's framework right now, so any necessary rewriting wouldn't be that big of a stretch. Just set them after Mospeada ("New Generation") and you're pretty much good to go. Heck, Macross 7 was already written with Robotech in mind; it even has "protoculture" in its storyline!.
Last edited by DeTroyes on Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:57 pm; edited 2 times in total
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walw6pK4Alo
Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 9322
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Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:48 pm
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If Hollywood can't nail down GitS, which was basically a remake, there's little hope for something more out there like Macross/Robotech.
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TymersRealm
Joined: 05 Jan 2017
Posts: 93
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Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:53 pm
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DeTroyes wrote: |
But having said that... everything they've done since has been a disaster, and the way they've manhandled ownership of the Macross franchise outside of Japan is just dreadful. I have no idea what their contract with Tatsunoko says, but the sooner they lose their rights the better. The fact that they have not been able to get ANYTHING off the ground in 20+ years speaks volumes about their competence. |
If you can find it, Robotech Art 3: The Sentinels is a interesting read. It's the behind the scenes of how The Sentinels series imploded. Basically, if anything could go wrong, it did.
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DeTroyes
Joined: 30 May 2016
Posts: 521
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Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:23 pm
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TymersRealm wrote: | If you can find it, Robotech Art 3: The Sentinels is a interesting read. It's the behind the scenes of how The Sentinels series imploded. Basically, if anything could go wrong, it did. |
I've got it somewhere around here. Also read the novel versions when they came out. But if you ask me, it was Carl Macek's arrogance that killed that project; he was convinced he and only he knew how to translate & market anime in the US, and his attempts to follow up with Robotech's success were ill-thought out and badly produced.
Remember, Harmony Gold also produced a Robotech movie (an adaptation of Megazone 23 part 1, with a different ending) and the excruciatingly awful Captain Harlock and the Queen of a Thousand Years (Space Pirate Captain Harlock & Queen Millenia, edited and rewritten to make them seem like they were happening at the same time; it was even worse than this description sounds!). Macek bet HG and Robotech's future on both those projects, hoping that he could repeat Robotech's success and use the resulting financial gain to bankroll Sentinals (which would have been a much more expensive undertaking, being an original project and all). Both properties were utter disasters; Robotech the Movie never saw widespread release, and CH&Q1000Y was only picked up by a handful of stations. This was all in large part because they were simply confusing and awfully executed. Neither proved the financial success Macek was banking on to get Sentinals off the ground.
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TymersRealm
Joined: 05 Jan 2017
Posts: 93
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Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:30 pm
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I'll have to relook at my copy, but IIRC there was also a bottoming out of the merchandising support for Robotech at the same time as Sentinels was being prepared. So without that too, things weren't going to go well.
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SkerllyFC07
Joined: 08 Jul 2017
Posts: 108
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Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:11 pm
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What do you mean with Harmony Gold retaining the rights of the franchise, and not allowing the US to see anything Macross related?
1- The fact that they can localize any other Macross series as they did with SDF Macross?
2- The fact that they won´t release any Macross series for distribution outside of Japan, or at least to put it in streaming services?
In the case of No. 1, Gatchaman is getting a french animated series in 3D called Battle of the Planets, if you know, and it´s supposed to be put on Netflix. That one´s getting a pass and no one says anything about it, but this is an alarming news? Sheesh!!!!!
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KabaKabaFruit
Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Posts: 1882
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
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Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:26 pm
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DeTroyes wrote: | I made my peace with Robotech years ago. It was a problematic adaption at best, but the fact remains it jump started anime fandom in the US and was the first US adaption to truly showcase the kind of drama and story telling anime is known for. Before Robotech, anime adaptations were always dumbed down, often ludicrously ("Those evil robots look just like humans!" "The planet was destroyed but thank goodness we evacuated everyone in time!" "After the battle my brother joined a space colony and went off to a far distant planet, so I lay flowers at this memorial I erected to him as a tribute!"). After Robotech, there was a much more general appreciation for the kind of storytelling anime could produce, and it created what I can only describe as a desperate hunger for more. I think anime fandom today owes a huge debt to the demand Robotech almost single-handedly created. |
Robotech was a splash in the bucket and nothing more. Even if it had "jump started" anime fandom in the west, it still wasn't enough to convince television stations to give more anime a try as anime was still seen as too "foreign" and "weird" for American tastes. What did get licensed and shown after Robotech was always stuck in early morning death slots for no other reason than for the stations to fill their alloted slot time. This happened very frequently for Saban licenses as Saban was a frequent licensee to anime at the time. It was tough for the fandom to even spread the word about anime back then as the themes didn't coincide with how Americans viewed cartoons. Sure, you got interested individuals in clubs and discussions and all that and even those who were willing to pay excessive prices for 1-2 episode VHS tapes that could only be found in the dark recesses of hobby stores but that's about it. Sorry, but anime didn't really take off until '98 with Cartoon Network and Dragon Ball Z as that generation was willing to make their voices heard in regards to how anime was the best thing since sliced bread. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone today who wants to even acknowledge the existence of anime in America prior to '98.
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ZeetherKID77
Joined: 17 Jun 2007
Posts: 982
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Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:57 pm
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Wait, HG can't use the Valkyrie design outside of merchandising? That's going to create some problems when they try to have the transforming jets in this (By the way, they totally trace toy photos for some of their shirts, which is hilarious...just bring over the Hi-Metal releases if you're going to do that!!)
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DeTroyes
Joined: 30 May 2016
Posts: 521
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Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:32 pm
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KabaKabaFruit wrote: | Robotech was a splash in the bucket and nothing more. Even if it had "jump started" anime fandom in the west, it still wasn't enough to convince television stations to give more anime a try as anime wsas still seen as too "foreign" and "weird" for American tastes. What did get licensed and shown after Robotech was always stuck in early morning death slots for no other reason than for the stations to fill their alloted slot time. This happened very frequently for Saban licenses as Saban was a frequent licensee to anime at the time. It was tough for the fandom to even spread the word about anime back then as the themes didn't coincide with how Americans viewed cartoons. Sure, you got interested individuals in clubs and discussions and all that and even those who were willing to pay excessive prices for 1-2 episode VHS tapes that could only be found in the dark recesses of hobby stores but that's about it. Sorry, but anime didn't really take off until '98 with Cartoon Network and Dragon Ball Z as that generation was willing to make their voices heard in regards to how anime was the best thing since sliced bread. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone today who wants to even acknowledge the existence of anime in America prior to '98. |
Sorry, but I beg to differ here. I was very active in 1980s & early-mid 1990s Chicago-area anime fandom, and I can say quite categorically that fandom then was not only there and active but increasingly so throughout the post-Robotech years. I watched it happen, as more and more people filled up the anime rooms at various conventions (I ran the one at Capricon for a number of years) and started snatching up whatever became available. These were also the years that Akira and Miyazaki were first being noticed, and word of mouth was making those theatrical showings of anime at the Music Box sell-outs. By the mid 1990s, Sailor Moon & Tenchi Muyo were showing up on UHF channels everywhere, and internet USENET groups were bringing anime fans together. Anime VHS began showing up at Best Buy and Suncoast Video well before 1998 (I clearly remember buying my copies of Super Atragon and Lensman movie at Best Buy), or for rent at Blockbusters. SciFi channel also had several anime movie nights well before Toonami, including films like Beautiful Dreamer, Odin Photon Ship Starlight, and even Char's Counterattack.
From my vantage point it was steady progression after Robotech. Pre-Robotech, there were a handful of fans like myself who knew about anime and were passionate about it, but we were a small, dispersed but close-knit group. Robotech was the catalyst that really got people to notice anime. It caused anime's first big US explosion; suddenly people were interested in this new, completely alien artform, and the people it ensnared then became the seeds for what came next. Most of the people who started Viz Media, ADV Films, Manga Entertainment, etc. all began out as fans from the Robotech era.
Would anime fandom have become as big today without Robotech? No idea. But I suspect it would have taken longer for it to sink in. The boom of the late 1990s did not occur in a vacuum; Robotech paved the way.
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TarsTarkas
Joined: 20 Dec 2007
Posts: 5906
Location: Virginia, United States
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Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:08 pm
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SWAnimefan wrote: |
On Harmony Gold's end, most definitely!! With the movie in production, it appeases the legal end of things that they are maintaining the license. So if the movie is completed and even if it does horribly, they can maintain the stranglehold on Macross in America. But if the movie fails to be completed, Harmony Gold will have to take drastic measures or lose their "rights". |
No, all Harmony Gold has to do is renew it's contract with Tatsunoko routinely. There is nothing stopping Harmony Gold from holding onto Robotech forever, outside a U.S. court order. Big West and Studio Nue could take Tatsunoko and Harmony Gold to court in the United States if they wanted to, since they haven't we only have our imaginations to think of the reasons why.
Considering Japanese machinations with a Certain Trading Card Game, I have no problem in thinking that the Japanese side of things don't have halos either.
I love Robotech, but I also love the Macross franchise and would be happy if they came to the West. I just don't buy into the Harmony Gold hate machine, as if they are solely responsible for this mess.
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CCTakato
Joined: 24 Jul 2015
Posts: 514
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Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:26 pm
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As much as I have a nostalgic appreciaton for Robotech, I do kind of have to agree I feel Robotech's overall importance to American anime fandom has been kind of overstated. Robotech is certainly important as one of the first anime dubs to not censor death, but for all the progress Robotech made in televised anime dubs, most dubs following Robotech seemed to go right back to ridiculous censorship like DBZ changing death to being sent to another dimension or Sailor Moon's season finale changing death to being sent to the Negaverse.
Maybe Robotech's initial success helped paved the long run for more mature anime like Akira and GITS, but I feel like most American anime fans seem to owe their appreciation for mature anime more to Katsuhiro Otomo and Mamoru Oshii than they do Robotech. In terms of old school dubs' lasting staying power, Voltron seems to be having the most success these days, although I feel Robotech's writing holds up a lot better than the original Voltron to be honest. Even before the hit Netflix reboot, I remember there was a lot of buzz and excitement when they first released Voltron in those lion themed DVD boxsets a few years ago that Robotech could only dream of having. Macross seems to mostly only be popular among older fans that grew up with Robotech and most Macross fans seem to no longer care about Robotech.
I think Robotech could finally gain some of it's appreciation back if Harmony Gold gave the rights to another more responsible company. But it seemed like even when Robotech was still fondly remembered, it was always Macross that was the main part of the franchise most cared about and it always seemed like most fans didn't care about the Robotech Masters or New Generation part of the story. It's a shame though since I do think Robotech isn't quite as bad of a dub as most people seem to do and there are some things I actually like better in Robotech more. But whatever influence it might have had in the past, it didn't definitely didn't last and it's sad to see Robotech fade into irrelevancy and I like to think Carl Macek would be ashamed at what Harmony Gold has turned into.
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Cptn_Taylor
Joined: 08 Nov 2013
Posts: 925
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Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:48 pm
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Beatdigga wrote: | That's assuming they can even get the rights.
It's been repeatedly established that the situation is so bad and so petty no one can throw money at it and end it because it's about pride. |
Pride has nothing to do. Would you do business with someone who backstabbed you in the first place and then stole your work ? Because that is what Harmony Gold did to Big West. And the supreme irony is that even after having stolen all that was possible from Big West, they can't use it for anything, liveaction or otherwise. And the parts of Robotech they acquired normally don't interest what few fans they have left. So if this live action Robotech movie ever comes out it will have none absolutely none of the story elements of Macross.
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KabaKabaFruit
Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Posts: 1882
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
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Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:30 am
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DeTroyes wrote: | Sorry, but I beg to differ here. I was very active in 1980s & early-mid 1990s Chicago-area anime fandom, and I can say quite categorically that fandom then was not only there and active but increasingly so throughout the post-Robotech years. I watched it happen, as more and more people filled up the anime rooms at various conventions (I ran the one at Capricon for a number of years) and started snatching up whatever became available. These were also the years that Akira and Miyazaki were first being noticed, and word of mouth was making those theatrical showings of anime at the Music Box sell-outs. By the mid 1990s, Sailor Moon & Tenchi Muyo were showing up on UHF channels everywhere, and internet USENET groups were bringing anime fans together. Anime VHS began showing up at Best Buy and Suncoast Video well before 1998 (I clearly remember buying my copies of Super Atragon and Lensman movie at Best Buy), or for rent at Blockbusters. SciFi channel also had several anime movie nights well before Toonami, including films like Beautiful Dreamer, Odin Photon Ship Starlight, and even Char's Counterattack. |
Which is fine and dandy to a cult audience but at the end of the day, it's just that: a cult audience. Special theater screenings, cable airings and convention showings don't exactly translate as mainstream. Also, any anime that was in video stores were nestled in private corners or mixed up in the kids section because staff members had no clue what they were supposed to categorize them as. Ditto for retail.
Quote: | From my vantage point it was steady progression after Robotech. Pre-Robotech, there were a handful of fans like myself who knew about anime and were passionate about it, but we were a small, dispersed but close-knit group. Robotech was the catalyst that really got people to notice anime. It caused anime's first big US explosion; suddenly people were interested in this new, completely alien artform, and the people it ensnared then became the seeds for what came next. Most of the people who started Viz Media, ADV Films, Manga Entertainment, etc. all began out as fans from the Robotech era. |
So anime couldn't be noticed at all without more mature themes that were put in place by Robotech and not the art style itself? Did everyone think Star Blazers, Battle of the Planets and Voltron were all made in America and yet somehow, Robotech, despite its Americanization, was noticed as being made in Japan because the themes were more mature? That just seems incredibly odd of a reaction to me, especially to that of an American audience. You would think the art style would be a dead giveaway that something was different from the usual animation fare that people were accustomed to. As for those who founded their own VHS distribution companies, that's fine and dandy to them but they were still catering to a cult audience. I haven't seen any proof that VHS anime was being sold exceptionally to a mainstream audience. The closest we've got to that back then was Manga's release of Ghost in the Shell, which was praised by Siskel & Ebert for its theme and direction but still got pushed away in the end from the mainstream audience that was still of the mindset that "all animation was for children". Not even a Pay Per View run was enough to save it.
Quote: | Would anime fandom have become as big today without Robotech? No idea. But I suspect it would have taken longer for it to sink in. The boom of the late 1990s did not occur in a vacuum; Robotech paved the way. |
And yet, fans of today's generation credit Cartoon Network and Dragon Ball Z for making anime what it is today. Anything prior to '98 just seems like a fluke. That's the generation we're dealing with. People like us aren't relevant anymore.
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