Forum - View topicINTEREST: Yuragi-sō no Yūna-san Stirs Controversy Over 'Sexual Depictions' in Shonen Jump
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catandmouse
Posts: 219 |
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The thing about the girls "crying" in the pictures is that in anime and manga the character's eyes are almost always wet, regardless.
My point being that if you read/ watch the medium why would tears be taken to mean something inherently bad? As for the titillation, I'm not saying it's a good or bad thing, but let's not kid ourselves whether it's real models or drawings, the fan service is always there. And whether or not kids should see it? They are gonna see it whether we want them or not. Like they say the devil is in the details and in this case the details are the titilation and it's up to the parents how they want to handle that. |
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leafy sea dragon
Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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I don't really see how it's useless, unless you think all of sociology is useless.
I don't really like the thought of shonen simply being the default category and seinen being something that wouldn't be in shonen. Seinen doesn't have to be boring or serious, can it? There must be seinen series that are completely family-friendly and can be enjoyed by kids if their tastes are as such, just that they're aimed at adults. Quiz shows, for instance, are aimed at general audiences. Something like Jeopardy! or Win Ben Stein's Money have adults as their intended viewers, for instance, but there's nothing in them that'd be unappealing to children,and no one would consider that as kid shows or teenager shows.
Nah, I got all my anime from Toonami until college.
Kids actually listen to their parents in Japan and not just do the opposite of what their parents say?
I don't know what you mean, in that case. Please elaborate, considering those gateway series (and we can add Pokémon, Digimon, Yu-Gi-Oh!, Cowboy Bebop, Bleach, and Attack on Titan to that) are not focused on sexuality, and with the exception of Sailor Moon, the appeal to them does not come at all from sexual attraction to the characters. I'll admit that I am probably part of a minority who is a fan of western animation and continued to watch western animation through my teenage years alongside anime (still do--if anyone's noticed, every avatar I've had for the past several years is a character from western animation), and I know that anime took off among teenagers because it was doing things most western TV animation was not doing at the time, but I don't think an overwhelming majority of them went to anime to look for characters to jerk off to.
No, Nisekoi was relatively innocent compared to I"s and Strawberry 100%. Between it, Double Arts, and that short about the girl with the heart condition, Naoshi Komi's storytelling style tends towards the sweet, wistful, quiet, and somewhat nostalgic. There IS fanservice of the sexual nature in there, but it's rare, maybe once every 15 chapters on average. Nisekoi is almost wholly about emotions and slapstick comedy. (He is a fiend at Smash Bros. though.) |
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GrayArchon
Posts: 393 |
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I feel bad for the author. Decades of fanservice oriented series appearing in shounen manga, including Shounen Jump, with little issue. After years of fan service heavy rom-coms struggling and failing in Shounen Jump since To Love-ru ended, Tadahiro Miura succeeds at surviving and gaining popularity with one; with a series that's pretty much equal parts romance, comedy, and fanservice. His series passes the one year mark and gets a popularity poll, major milestones for any Jump series given the competitiveness of the magazine. Milestones which get him the cover and the lead color for the first time since his series debuted to publish the poll results.
Then even though his series is censored in the magazine itself like To Love-ru was, despite being mostly milder than To Love-ru and downright tame compared to it's spin off To Love-ru Darkness; despite other series with remarkable fan service running in the magazine such as Shokugeki no Soma (illustrated by his friend Saeki Shun); some prudes who clearly don't regularly read Jump happened to see the cover and color pages, and decided to make a mountain out of a molehill. Then all of a sudden a bunch of people who haven't seen more than a couple of cropped images, much less the full color spread or - God forbid - read the series to get context and make informed evaluations; are condemning his series as little more than pornography and saying it should be canceled because such "filth" doesn't belong in Jump. Others are commenting on why the series and fanservice is bad, and patting themselves on the back for their insight when their knowledge of the series doesn't extend beyond articles like this one. That's got to be somewhat depressing and demoralizing. |
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NeoStrayCat
Posts: 628 |
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Well, thanks for correcting me Leafy. >.>
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Alexis.Anagram
Posts: 278 Location: Mishopshno |
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You took the words right out of my mouth haha.
This is really the crux of the issue for me, and why depictions like this tend to make me uncomfortable (and after reading through this thread, I'll concede right away that it's entirely possible this particular one only makes me uncomfortable because it lacks context). At the end of the day, there's a reason women are routinely portrayed in this so-called "lucky sukebe" fashion, and I think it actually has a lot to do with avoiding frank depictions of sexuality in a way that encourages young people to investigate what they're feeling about what they're seeing/reading, and in particular diminishing female participation in the moment as a matter of making them seem blameless, which would imply there would be something to blame them for if they were actually into-- or even just ok with it. Ironically, the message I walk away with is one of sexual conservatism: girls shouldn't be comfortable with their naked bodies and ought to be embarrassed and ashamed at being seen that way; while hypocritically, boys who have an interest in girls should just be so lucky as to gain unintended "access" to their best friend/class president/(maybe) adopted oneechan/loli spirit roommate. Either way, it pointedly shirks the effort of making anyone accountable for their actions and designing a scenario where sexual behavior is designated as intentional and cooperative, because that might actually focus the audience's consideration of the sexual content in the story as more than a throwaway gimmick. And I'm not saying that's inherently a bad thing, it's just a large part of why I have zero interest in fanservice shows and find these kinds of situations and the characters who generally inhabit them both shallow and unbelievable. On the other hand
While I can't speak for anybody else here, this absolutely a huge part of the origin of my fascination with anime and manga. And I'm curious how much of this does come down to the individual and their circumstances? I always felt I was more interested in sex, or maybe just more aware of my interest, than most peers of my age group-- I remember how much I liked watching Disney's Hercules because of the scene after he fights the Hydra where he's standing around shirtless: I really liked that image, and I was five when that movie came out. I got into DBZ for the exact same reason; my dad and mom worried about the violence on-screen, but I was mainly watching to see how frequently Goku could get top naked (the violence was fun too). Obviously none of that material was overtly sexualized, but that didn't keep me from enjoying it. So yeah, when I got my hands on manga which directly, sometimes even visually, addressed the subject of my interest, it captured my attention: even something as innocuous as a full view of Kagome's breasts in Inuyasha felt super affirming, not because it turned me on (boobs aren't my thing) but simply because it read as an acknowledgment that it's fine to see that. I mean, I was also inexplicably drawn towards Stephen King novels in middle school... So topics like this are always interesting to me. I realize there are probably other factors guiding this decision artistically, but I almost feel like the Yuna drawing would be less objectionable if they just removed the censorship altogether and let the girls' boobs be boobs. At least then it wouldn't seem so coy and underhanded. |
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leafy sea dragon
Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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There is also a strong wish-fulfillment quality to these situations: It seems that it's very common in Japan for teenagers to be rather shy and coy about the classmates they have a crush on. The male protagonists of these stories tend to reflect that timidity and nervousness over asking a girl out, and then, through sheer accident, stumble upon glimpses of a girl's whatevers, or in a case like this, multiple girls'. That is, the wish-fulfillment comes in the ability to peek at their panties, boobs, butts, or what the author feels like through minimal interaction with that girl/those girls. They get the view without ever having to so much as ask. |
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Thorfinn
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The Yuna manga finally gets some attention in the West and it's this garbage, I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Well, at the end of the day, nothing will change and Yuna will continue running in the magazine.
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Vibrant Wolf
Posts: 109 Location: Canada |
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and not just in stories. anything that a kid can observe sends a particular message. a kid who wants to learn how to bake, need only watch a parent/guardian in the kitchen, for example. the people who put out anything that can send a message should be careful. and if they choose to shirk that responsibility, then it falls n the parents/guardians to child safety lock their computer and such. also, it is the parent/guardian/teacher's responsibility to teach their kids about safe sex practices, and what is acceptable/unacceptable. |
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Jonny Mendes
Posts: 997 Location: Europe |
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Yeah, i know that. I talked about Goko because i remembered that time when that scene was criticized and even censored, at least in my country. But anyway, of course there will be sexualized depictions of females and fanservice with females in Shonen Jump with very few sexualized depictions of males. After all, is a manga magazine for young teen boys, even if there are a huge female fan-base. Even if Japan is a very conservative country with declining birthrate is also one of the countries most open minded when comes to entertainment were the depictions of sexuality have a long history and is very prevalent in manga and anime. |
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Galap
Moderator
Posts: 2354 |
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For one, I think trying to restrict the media teens consume is pretty silly, and also artists should be able to draw whatever they want.
That being said, I really want to see more fanservice where the girl is into it and initiating an actual sexual encounter. A tactile sex scene or even kiss scene will do way more for me than just 'hey look at that girl's ass'. And the humiliation fanservice really doesn't do anything for me. The fact that the other kind exists doesn't really bother me that much; I'm not into it, so I tend not to watch things that have that as the main focus. The only thing that does bother me is that it seems to be what exists to the exclusion of everything else. |
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Lord Oink
Posts: 876 |
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That's more people's unfamiliarity with series outside entry level stuff. Shin-chan, Gashbell, and Beelzebub are all famous for elephant showing as well, just to name a few recent series. Though an exposed wang to clothed boobs and butts seems uncomarable.
Pokemon: Heh, Pokegirls are hugely popular. Hundreds of doujinshi and fanart about them. Part of Sun and Moon beating out XY in popularity are the girls. Suiren, Lillie, and Mao are super popular. Hikari and Haruka were the queens before as well. Digimon: Not that popular in the first place to be honest, but literally only people I see bother with Appmon are Eri fans, and the show started pushing her hard as a result. Yu-Gi-Oh: Zexal was the most fanservicy series, and its also the one with the most doujinshi and one of the more popular series in Japan. Correlation = causation? Who knows. The bracelet girls were also the most popular thing about ARCV even if the show itself was hated. Blue Angel is stealing VRAINS spotlight as well. Cowboy Bebop: Faye seems pretty popular to me at every convention I see. Though not exactly for children. Bleach: Pretty much known for its girls and fanservice if you ask me. Attack on Titan: Sure, not really any fanservice in it, but fujoshi still like the dudes eitherway. I dunno man, usually if a series stands out the girls or guys play a huge part in it within a fandom. We can think of a few exceptions no doubt, but the trend is pretty noticable. Pretty Cure is another one with tons of focus on the girls in the fan community. I mean, even you got to admit even among bronies the furrys are a big part of a fandom, with tons of sites and art dedicated to pony smut. |
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ChibiKangaroo
Posts: 2941 |
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In the U.S. (and in some other countries) we have laws against corruption of minors. These laws have different names but they generally involve an adult showing pornographic materials to children. These laws have a purpose. One of the known tactics of child abusers is to show children pornos in order to get them aroused and make them easy targets for abuse. The laws are in place so that the abusers who have been caught before doing the ultimate act can still be jailed for their prep work.
I bring up that context because several people have said "who cares if children see sexual content! They'll see it anyway!" You have to think of the full ramifications though when you advance such a position. These laws do have a purpose. Saying no one should care if kids are shown titilating material means that abusers should not be jailed for doing that. We cant have separate laws for different people. I am perfectly fine with mature individuals enjoying their fetishes in 2d art. However I do not think we should be marketing sexual content to kids. It's true that many of them will learn that on their own and that's how it should be. Adults should not be shoving sexually arousing material into kid's faces. Let the kids explore their development on their own. |
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Shay Guy
Posts: 2255 |
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I gotta side with Agent355, leafy sea dragon, Alexis.Anagram, and Galap here. Not much else of my own to add to their points. There's more to sexuality than voyeurism.
What's your current one? Google Reverse Image Search isn't turning up anything, but it looks Wakfu-ish to me.
Big, BIG difference between a series focused on sexuality and a series with a fandom that ships the characters enthusiastically -- more often referred to as "a fandom". Hell, 17776 has existed for all of a week and consists almost entirely of dialogue transcripts, diagrams, images of documents, and 3D map renders; and people are shipping its characters. Including the main characters, who are space probes. For that matter, consider an extremely popular family movie from a few years back about the relationship between two sisters, with musical numbers, a cute snowman mascot, and a strong theme about how there are more important things than romance. Half the fandom activity is shipping the two sisters. Fans gonna fan. |
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HeeroTX
Posts: 2046 Location: Austin, TX |
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I'll agree with you that anyone going to Pokemon, Yu-gi-Oh or Digimon for the sex... then that's more on them. Attack on Titan is debatable, but I would say that it's selling point is more on the action/violence. Bleach & Cowboy Bebop have female characters that are CLEARLY in the Fujiko/"bombshell" motif. If you're NOT going there for those characters then that's your choice, but then I can say (and this IS true) that I don't watch harem shows for the "happy accident" fanservice. (I'd say Faye of Bebop is that fandom variation on Chii from Chobits, you can say the show is or isn't about getting screentime for a character that hits a certain fetish) Bleach made its effort to hit both sides, like Fairy Tail. It had several very busty ladies and various moments of fanservice pretty much for ANY option. Or do you think its pure coincidence that Aizen went from practically a dad/teacher look to rock-star male pinup just from removing his glasses? |
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Lord Oink
Posts: 876 |
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A series has to have that spark to attract that sort of fandom, though. Not everything gets an equal amount of those fans. Frozen and Zootopia has tons because incest and furries, but Moana and Brave don't, probably because they have unappealing MCs. Anime's no different. Not every series gets doujins or art. Even hugely popular ones can have surprisingly little if they fail to capture people's interest in that regard. Might not be a factor in western productions, but Japan definately keeps those kinds of wealthy fans in mind when designing characters and set ups, thats why you get kids series with adult oriented merchandise like pervy figures of Sailor Moon, Yu-Gi-Oh, One Piece, etc. They know. Considering how many creators got their start as doujin artists, they're very savvy to how things work. |
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