Forum - View topicQuality vs entertainment - a tradeoff?
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Jason T
Posts: 3 |
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I am new to these forums, but have been looking at the ratings from this website for about a year.
After watching a few Mushi-Shi episodes, I have noticed something; just because something is a masterpiece doesn't mean it's entertaining. I completely agree with the show's high ratings based on its artistic merits, but that doesn't change the fact that if I'm the least bit tired or pre-occupied, this show puts me to sleep. On the other extreme is Bleach. Its ranking is quite low, relative to its popularity among both casual and hardcore anime watchers. But I agree with it's low ranking; a few of the episodes and characters are just plain stupid. However, we don't watch Bleach because it's an artistic masterpiece, we watch it because it is fun to watch. This leads me to ponder -- How does one go about discovering/choosing an anime with the right balance of entertainment and artistic quality? |
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countchocula86
Posts: 159 |
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Meh, comes down to personal taste and attitude at that moment right? I mean, there will be some people who only watch artistic and highly-acclaimed series, and some people who will just watch anything entertaining. Its kinda like only watching movies that have won Oscars vs watching a movie because it seems like it will entertain you.
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Vortextk
 Posts: 892 Location: Orlando, Fl |
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How does one find well balanced anime? I doubt anyone can tell you how to find anime for yourself. I will say that if you think Mushishi can not keep you entertained and you find yourself unable to watch it at times because of it's slow pace, maybe you don't think it's a masterpiece? If someone rates it a 1 or 2, I dismiss their rating entirely. However if someone gives it a 5 or 7 with some good reasoning behind it, I think that's fine.
I rated it a masterpiece because I was entertained. You're chalking up entertainment as only quicker paced comedy and/or action it seems and I think there's your problem. I love Mushishi and it's slow pace didn't really have much of an effect on me. Sure, there weren't any cliff hanger episodes or big action sequences but for me personally, I was never bored with it. Rather than shows that mix and match everything, I think I rather watch things like Bleach and Mushishi seperately. |
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Porcupine
 Posts: 1033 |
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The ratings on this website are crap in my opinion. So are the ratings of the "anime fandom", which are not necessarily the same as those on this site. In my opinion, the most objective ratings come from the population of people who rarely pirate/download anything (thus being unaffected by the unobjective fandom), but buy and watch a lot of anime. Unfortunately there's not many people like this out there. Amazon.com reviews are the largest online concentration of this type of viewer that I know of, but you'll find fandom reviews there too of course. I understand what you mean about there being a difference between what keeps YOU entertained, and what you think is an artistic masterpiece. It's good that you are able to appreciate even things which don't keep you entertained, few people are. To some extent I think along the same lines myself. But you should also give your own opinions more credit. If the show completely fails to entertain you, maybe it's really not the masterpiece you think it is, regardless of what the "ratings" say. If I think a show is total crap, but acknowledge that many other people think it is a masterpiece, and acknowledge that they have good reason to think so, I won't call that show a masterpiece. I'd call it an okay or good show (overall). And if I think a show is crap, and many other people think it is a masterpiece, but I think they are complete morons to rate the show that way, then I will rate the show as crap. About your last question, my answer depends on what entertains you, and what is your personal definition of 'artistic quality'. Have you seen Godannar and Madlax? (two very different styles of anime, both of which I personally consider masterpieces) If you can, watch them and tell me whether or not you consider these two titles entertaining and/or artistic... |
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Murasakisuishou
 Posts: 1469 Location: NE Ohio |
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Generally I favor entertainment over quality; some of my favorite anime have extremely cheap (or at least low quality) animation, but great stories and characters. Still, there are series like Haibane Renmei, FMA, and GitS: SAC that I've found entertaining and are absolutely gorgeous to look at. Entertainment doesn't always mean amusement; generally series that focus more on humor are going to have lower quality animation just because exaggerated character designs and facial expressions are a better vehicle for humor. A series can be more dramatic and still be entertaining, and drama series generally have better animation (in my experience).
To the other extreme, I sat through GitS: Innocence without understanding a word of it just because it was so pretty. |
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Porcupine
Posts: 1033 |
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Sitting through GiTS: Innocence in the movie theater (because a friend made me go, we both regretted afterwards) was one of the most difficult things I've ever done. If I bothered to rate that show here it would be a 1...definitely a Worst Ever. And I acknowledge that many other people consider it a masterpiece, and I even agree that in one tiny category (background rendering quality...a category I personally consider unimportant) the show probably is a masterpiece. But in most other categories (directing, story, drawing style, etc) GiTS: Innocence is garbage and so are the opinions of all the people who consider that show a masterpiece.
OTOH if the exact same show had been drawn with the best-looking anime girls I'd ever seen (although I guess that is impossible because most of the characters aren't girls) my rating would totally change. To me though, not only was the story garbage, but so were the visuals (where's the pretty girls?) so the show was good-for-nothing. I think a lot of non-biased objective viewers would agree with me, too. As I walked out of the theater, I was ultra angry so I blurted out loudly "That was the worst anime I've ever seen in my whole life!" to see if anyone would get mad. But that only triggered an agreeing chuckle in a number of people around me (although there could have been some people who were offended and never said a word). On a different subject, like I said in my previous post, artistic quality is hard to define and I'm not sure what Jason's definition is. He said that Bleach was low quality. But to be honest, in terms of animation quality and drawing style and drawing quality, Bleach is quite good. Far above something like Mushi-shi (however I haven't actually seen Mushi-shi just pics and trailers, so I could be wrong). But Bleach is low quality in other areas where Mushi-shi is probably high. So we should figure out what he considers as important aspects of quality. |
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kakitamike
 Posts: 183 Location: Akron, OH |
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For me, it really depends on what i'm in the mood to watch. If you want somethig to wake you up or keep you on the edge of your seat, Mushi-shi isn't what you should be playing to begin with. That's not to say it isn't a good series ( i find it great when i'm in an introspectie mood) but you kinda need to pick the right visual for the right mood.
FLAG is another series where although I really enjoy it, I wouldn't watch it lying down on the couch of after a long day of work, because i'll be out in minutes. Both Divergence Eve and D.N.A Angel put me to sleep, and I have yet to finish either series, but I can't point to what causes that. I think Samurai 7 is a good example of entertaining and beautiful. Others i'd add to that list are FLCL and Samurai Champloo. There are more but this is off the top of my head. |
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Jason T
Posts: 3 |
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That's following an assumption that there isn't a quality middle ground, but there is*. I wouldn't have made this thread if I didn't think there was. However, as a casual anime viewer I am having difficulty finding that. *In my opinion, a good example of a middle ground between quality and entertainment is Death Note. It's fast pace isn't derived from overblown action or comedy, but rather from it's entangling-well-written story. |
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Vortextk
Posts: 892 Location: Orlando, Fl |
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Never said there wasn't a middle ground. You're comparing two shows and so am I.
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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I think I get along with entertainment more than quality, though sometimes I might enjoy shows the other way around. Story seems to be the more crucial part, as I have seen when I just gave my sister a whole series that I didn't really need because I didn't like the way the story was going.
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Jason T
Posts: 3 |
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mhmm... How is Monster in terms of pace/entertainment?
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Porcupine
Posts: 1033 |
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You consider Death Note to be fast-paced? I've only seen what was shown for free on Cartoon Network so far, but I haven't been able to stay totally awake for the entirety of each episode. It's such a boring show to me, pacing-wise. Story-wise...it's not super interesting but it's more interesting than the average show (except I get really annoyed at some of the dumb things Light does, although he is reasonably smart most of the time. A real Death Note would have so much more potential than what Light is stupidly using it for).
Once again though, if everyone in Death Note was 10x better-looking this show would be awesome.  Actually that wall-eyed shinigami is pretty good looking. I laugh whenever I see him. If it weren't for him I would have stopped watching Death Note already.
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Chesis
Posts: 27 |
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While I get what you're saying, I don't really agree about Mushishi. There are anime that I can respect and appreciate but don't watch to be entertained. "Grave of the Fireflies," for instance, is a great film and possibly the best animated film ever made, but not exactly a crowd-pleaser.
On the other hand, there are people who enjoy watching tragic and dark stories, or more esoteric ones like Mushishi. I for one, liked the series an awful lot and don't enjoy other shows that some people find entertaining. So, personal taste always plays into it. And finally, quality and entertainment aren't mutually exclusive at all. Think of Cowboy Bebop or the Miyazaki movies. Just takes a certain kind of genius to pull it off. |
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Randall Miyashiro
 Posts: 2451 Location: A block away from Golden Gate Park |
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These two qualities are not mutually exclusive. I would go as far as to say that there isn't even an inverse correlation there as you have suggested. I for one have a hard time sitting through a whole volume of Bleach (or Hkaru no Go, Naruto, One Piece and most Jump series) since they just seem like a bunch of fight scenes strung together revolving around young boys. On the other hand I love watching the variety in the Mushishi episodes and find it easy to sit through a whole volume. There are of course many shows that I find extremely entertaining and artistic like Last Exile and Planetes. |
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Samurai-with-glasses
 Posts: 628 |
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Porcupine: No offense, but I think you're either just trolling or trying to be edgy here (Zac's term wasit).
I understand character design is a subjective thing, even animation can be a subjective thing to a point (think SHAFT's style), but you keep calling Mushi-shi out for its supposedly "low" animation quality and "terrible" character design, which quite frankly is just BS period. Series like Bleach use far more shortcuts, have more drawing inconsistencies, and drag out their scenes far more than series like Mushi-shi do. If you're going to say something sucks then please do watch them before saying so, else someone else would mistake your opinion for a supported one. The same goes for your criticism of Innocence. Incomprehensible, pretentious storytelling? Sure, I can take that. Bad visuals? What the hell are you talking about? "Cute girls?" Since when is that a mark of good visual quality? Jason T: I love Mushi-shi, but I have to agree with you. If I haven't slept properly the day before or it's an exhausting day, I find that Mushi-shi is sleep-inducing. Its sentimental, introspective tone and pacing is not conducive to excitement. Although if I'm in a thoughtful mood I find the series to be extremely compelling. The same "problem" (not so much a problem really) goes for similar series like Kino's Journey and Haibane Renmei. However, I don't think that this is at all a negative towards their entertainment value. "Entertainment" is a very vague, very big concept and I'm sure there's more than one way to entertain; the "Mushi-shi way" is one of them. After all, does the Horror genre provoke the same emotion as the Summer Blockbuster, the Romantic Comedy, or the Drama? All of them are entertainments. Equating entertainment with explosions and fanservice is a disservice to oneself in my opinion. Excitement is one form of entertainment, sure, but what about provoking one's thoughts? Of course, easily accessible entertainment and artistic merits are not mutually inherent, that much I agree. But what tends to happen, in my opinion, is that the best of the very best are the ones that successfully combine accessibility with substantial merits. Think Jane Austen's works: Pride and Prejudice is a classic literary work, an excellent character study, an exercise in wit, and a clever social observation. But first and foremost it is an easily accessible novel anyone can read. I suppose one could put "entertaining" as a replacement for "accessible" though. |
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