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Last edited by Jonny Mendes on Wed Mar 22, 2017 2:20 pm; edited 1 time in total

Hoppy800 wrote:

Japanese and American fans need to start working together, things such as bad LN adaptations and crummy mobile adaptations that require you to play the game to enjoy them could be reduced or eliminated if both sides worked together. We need think tanks, big discussion panels, and the like moderated by fans and consisting of fans, including fans who are employed in the industry (No shareholders and such that aren't fans and just want a big hit for money, they're part of the problem).

For that to work, American and Japanese have to had the same or at least near anime/manga tastes and in reality that is the point. They are complety different with very few exceptions like YOI.
What you called bad LN adaptations and crummy mobile adaptations that require you to play the game is what keeping the industry afloat, with the help of shows like YOI.
Is exactly because of LN/manga and games that most anime is made.
What you are proposing is eliminate most anime and closing many studios that depend on that anime to keep alive.

Haha, this is why One Piece is doing alright in Japan only. It doesnt need the worldwide attention that DBZ had. Either way very interesting read ANN.

Jonny Mendes wrote:

Hoppy800 wrote:

Japanese and American fans need to start working together, things such as bad LN adaptations and crummy mobile adaptations that require you to play the game to enjoy them could be reduced or eliminated if both sides worked together. We need think tanks, big discussion panels, and the like moderated by fans and consisting of fans, including fans who are employed in the industry (No shareholders and such that aren't fans and just want a big hit for money, they're part of the problem).

For that to work, American and Japanese have to had the same or at least near anime/manga tastes and in reality that is the point. They are complety different.
What you called bad LN adaptations and crummy mobile adaptations that require you to play the game is what keeping the industry afloat, with the help of shows like YOI.
Is exactly because of LN/manga and games that most anime is made.
What you are proposing is eliminate most anime and closing many studios that depend on that anime to keep alive.

There are more than enough articles on ANN that clearly explain how the modern anime business model works... Real shame that folks don't pay attention to the workings of their favored mediums.

Anime is expensive to make and has never looked better. The kind of capital required needs support and I'm sure as heck that folks aren't willing to pay more for their anime. Entertainment nowadays is full of justifiable evils, so while they want "just want a big hit for money", in order to make a decent product they need cross promotion.

(BTW Jonny, you are full of good comments today.)

Just listen to this extremely topical interview by Trigger top dogs, as Will´s question is addressed:
Animation Interview - Little Witch Academia creators Hiroyuki Imaishi and Yoh Yoshinari
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ga8APtGhFys
I still can´t believe that Egoraptor lined up this interview. How? I ultimately don´t care too much about LWA or even the studio but pretty much everyone who is into the nuts and bolts of anime production should watch this.

Be careful what you wish for Justin. Mamoru Oshii tried his hand at the "prestige" game once with GitS: Innocence. He wanted to win a Cannes Lion (his words) and produced one of the biggest flops in the history of the medium... But what a film! Lol at the Umizaru 2 story though. The film is only 45 minutes long too. That´s technically still a "feature". Who organized this?

Jonny Mendes wrote:

Does American entertainment media listen to opinions of other Countries (Ok, Hollywood are listening to the Chinese but looking at the results, that is not that good)?

.....Releasing movies like Transformers Age Of Extinction and making a substantial amount of money as a consequence is bad? Not sure what you're alluding to.

ParaChomp wrote:

A real shame that they ignore us entirely. Many Japanese companies suffer due to ignoring criticism such as Nintendo's copyright abuse, they have no understanding of fair use and instead decide to soil their reputation with greedy criminal tactics.

Nintendo soils their reputation by putting out weak video game consoles or having sub-par online infrastructure few people care about them going after people making (and sometimes selling) fangames that infringe on copyright or having youtube take down videos featuring their games or whatever.

I find it difficult to believe this article, that it's stated as fact, that all of Japan doesn't care how popular anime is outside of Japan. I'm sure that a vast majority of the country doesn't care about anime overseas, but I would think there would be some of the normal citizens that actually look into stats like that. It's a practical impossibility that 0% of the citizens don't care, so there are some.

When you think about how other big companies in Japan like car & gaming companies, that are always thinking about the US marketplace, you know that anime companies are the same. I'm sure not to the same level, but the thought is there.

Last edited by relyat08 on Wed Mar 22, 2017 3:11 pm; edited 1 time in total

^I think you're misinterpreting his statements. That's not what he is saying. He used the word "generally" which is important here. And went on to state that it is an outdated attitude to think that the Japanese don't care at all, given how valuable the International market is.

zrnzle500 wrote:

Here I'd forgotten to put what I originally planned to comment on after reading the article, which is looking at the question the other way around. While the western fandom is certainly more aware of and probably interested in what is popular in Japan than the other way around, I think we tend to be more concerned with what is popular over here than in Japan per se. If that weren't the case, we would care a lot more about Sazae-san, Chibi Maruko-chan, Shin-chan, and Doraemon, which regularly beat every anime we care about in the Japanese ratings, in Sazae's case by far.

I think most of us, and definitely myself, really just care about how shows I like are received in Japan. Sort of how they are with us, I suppose, though we are probably that way to a larger degree. I enjoy seeing numbers for things like Osomatsu, which is a phenomenon there, of course, but for the most part, I'm scouring sales figures, and looking for news articles, that relate to the shows that I want to do well. But mostly, of course, because their success in Japan has the largest effect on whether or not it could get more. If their market didn't have as large of an effect on whether something I like gets more, or made money in the long run, I probably wouldn't care quite as much, to be honest. Now that China is such a big player, I'm also paying attention to them as well.

Hoppy800 wrote:

Japanese and American fans need to start working together, things such as bad LN adaptations and crummy mobile adaptations that require you to play the game to enjoy them could be reduced or eliminated if both sides worked together. We need think tanks, big discussion panels, and the like moderated by fans and consisting of fans, including fans who are employed in the industry (No shareholders and such that aren't fans and just want a big hit for money, they're part of the problem).

This seems to assume that what plagues anime these days is bad LN and mobile game adaptations but I don't think that is true. Taking this season as an example, out of the 50 or so anime that premiered this season, only 7 (or 8 if you include Granblue Fantasy which formally premieres next season) are adaptations of LNs or mobile games (including one where the game was never published). And looking at those ones, they don't seem to be a uniform evil.

Tanya is well rated over here, to say nothing of Konosuba, which was one of the top ten anime of last year on this site (In fact 2 of the top ten of the last three years running have been LN adaptations). Reikenzan I'd put more under the Chinese stuff not being there yet in terms of quality rather than on LNs per se.

Mobile games do fare worse with Idol Incidents (the one where the game never came out) and Schoolgirl Strikers doing poorly. Kemono Friends is quite popular in Japan and while I wouldn't say that it is high quality, it is nonetheless fairly enjoyable, even without playing the game, not that anyone can at this point. The two JRPG mobile game adaptations aren't bad either. Chain Chronicle seems like it could gain the most entertainment from playing the game, but considering that it is a fairly standard JRPG setting, I don't think anyone who has much experience with such fare will really need the game to understand what is going on sufficiently. I certainly haven't. The reviews are fairly positive so far as well. I'll reserve judgement on Granblue until the full series airs, but what I have seen so far was pretty decent as far as such things go.

If you look at what populates the bottom of the rankings on this site, the bottom ten consists of manga, originals, one (non-mobile) game, and one visual novel.

I'm not saying that there aren't bad LN and mobile games adaptations or that you can't dislike them, but thinking getting rid of them or limiting (the already limited) amount that is produced will improve things or that even the western fandom would agree that such things are an evil to be driven from the medium let alone the Japanese one seems wrongheaded to me.

zrnzle500 wrote:

Here I'd forgotten to put what I originally planned to comment on after reading the article, which is looking at the question the other way around. While the western fandom is certainly more aware of and probably interested in what is popular in Japan than the other way around, I think we tend to be more concerned with what is popular over here than in Japan per se. If that weren't the case, we would care a lot more about Sazae-san, Chibi Maruko-chan, Shin-chan, and Doraemon, which regularly beat every anime we care about in the Japanese ratings, in Sazae's case by far.

You're completely right, becuase anime is a niche market - something I'm sure Answerman has pointed out like a gajillion times by now. And it's not only niche, it's mostly for kids/pre-teens. It's not the super artsy medium some weebs like to make it out to be - most of it is just like your average entertainment show on TV, which is totally fine, but it's not the super popular medium some think it is.

Everyone in Japan knows the shows you mentioned because they've all watched them - when they were kids. New stuff flies under most people's radar because *gasp!* they grew out of it. However, we on the other side of the pond look at the new stuff, which while "popula"r among us and its target audience in Japan, is not well-known by the Japanese per-se, since they're just not interested in it.

Sakurafire_ wrote:

Jonny Mendes wrote:

For that to work, American and Japanese have to had the same or at least near anime/manga tastes and in reality that is the point. They are complety different.
What you called bad LN adaptations and crummy mobile adaptations that require you to play the game is what keeping the industry afloat, with the help of shows like YOI.
Is exactly because of LN/manga and games that most anime is made.
What you are proposing is eliminate most anime and closing many studios that depend on that anime to keep alive.

There are more than enough articles on ANN that clearly explain how the modern anime business model works... Real shame that folks don't pay attention to the workings of their favored mediums.

Anime is expensive to make and has never looked better. The kind of capital required needs support and I'm sure as heck that folks aren't willing to pay more for their anime. Entertainment nowadays is full of justifiable evils, so while they want "just want a big hit for money", in order to make a decent product they need cross promotion.

(BTW Jonny, you are full of good comments today.)

It works in a business sense but it's leading to stagnation, for example when the 1st season of Haikyuu came out it was a breath of fresh air after years of wanting something different. We need something different especially from LNs, just looking at for example Amazon Japan you see a wide variety of LNs that could be a future anime, but no, we can't have nice things and we end up with the bad LN adaptations instead with the same or similar themes time and time again.

{Edit: Please refrain from excessive quoting.. I edited your post for you. ~ Psycho 101}

They care when you outbid them on Yahoo Japan. I've received angry e-mails from several people that I've outbid once I displayed the items in my gallery. Some people can't move on.

Honestly, it doesn't bother me if people in the US or abroad like what I like. With 90+ anime shows a season, there's more than enough anime and manga for all of us.

ParaChomp wrote:

A real shame that they ignore us entirely. Many Japanese companies suffer due to ignoring criticism such as Nintendo's copyright abuse, they have no understanding of fair use and instead decide to soil their reputation with greedy criminal tactics.

Another example is Sword Art Online, the YouTube anime community has analysed the series to the point that it's worse than irredeemable and yet the franchise continues to pump out material as opposed to keeling over and moving on.

We need to communicate as a whole in order to move on and until people accept others' ideals and learn from them, they will never grow.

I think this comment represents why Japanese people never seem to care what we think.

Hoppy800 wrote:

It works in a business sense but it's leading to stagnation, for example when the 1st season of Haikyuu came out it was a breath of fresh air after years of wanting something different. We need something different especially from LNs, just looking at for example Amazon Japan you see a wide variety of LNs that could be a future anime, but no, we can't have nice things and we end up with the bad LN adaptations instead with the same or similar themes time and time again.

That's just a personal opinion, that's not how business works.
Also, Haikyuu did nothing new, it's the same formula lots of sports animes use (Nothing wrong with that, it's pretty good). That's why things needs to continue the way they are, because here we constantly see ideas like "things I think are bad don't need to exist!" (Though I know it's vocal minority), entertainment shouldn't be made for you exclusively, everyone has the right to like what they like.

So the best solution in this case would be adaptating more LNs, like zrnzle500 said only about 10% to 15% of the 200+ animes that are released per year are LN adaptations, since there are few of them, only the popular (With some exceptions, of course) ones gets an adaptation.

{Edit: Please refrain from excessive quoting.. I edited your post for you. ~ Psycho 101}

Look at this question from the opposite side. Almost all US movies, including some too poor to get a theatrical release, are released internationally. Many an expensive blockbuster has only made a profit when released overseas.

I've yet to hear that the fans of, say the Marvel superhero movies, gave a damn about how popular the movies are in Japan, or Europe or any other place outside the US. I'm sure the studios or other investors in those shows do care, but the fans, not so much.

If the fans of US entertainment don't care how their shows do outside the US, why should we expect Japanese fans to care how their shows do here?

When it comes to online play of Japanese games, I often watch gameplay videos, and some of these uploaders are Japanese. From what I've noticed, there are some who don't like to play with/against foreign players, there are some who don't care what country the other players are from, and there are some who actively seek out foreign players. Pokémon, in particular, seems to have a lot of the last category. There are fundamental differences in your typical Japanese Pokémon player online, your typical American player, and your typical European player, and some people just prefer the company of another region's style.

NeoStrayCat wrote:

(Though it would have been nice if this Answerman was another lightning round article, lol. Maybe next time? Wink

)

Well, I suppose when he collects enough of them to do another one. Quick! Send him a question with a short (but not one-word) answer!

Jonny Mendes wrote:

Does American entertainment media listen to opinions of other Countries (Ok, Hollywood are listening to the Chinese but looking at the results, that is not that good)?

What make entertainment media great is showing and making shows from the perspective of that country. Listening and making changes to appeal to other countries only bring bad results.

The reason these industries exist is to make money. Hollywood is listening closely to what the Chinese want because they believe Chinese audiences are a huge potential source of money. (Bear in mind the current flows the other way too: The Great Wall is a Chinese production that reeled in Brad Pitt for the purpose of selling back to viewers in the United States.)

Me, I don't care what perspective it is or if it's mixed with appealing to some other country's audiences. What matters if it they'll entertain me, and if I feel I got a meaningful experience out of it.

Jonny Mendes wrote:

For that to work, American and Japanese have to had the same or at least near anime/manga tastes and in reality that is the point. They are complety different with very few exceptions like YOI.
What you called bad LN adaptations and crummy mobile adaptations that require you to play the game is what keeping the industry afloat, with the help of shows like YOI.
Is exactly because of LN/manga and games that most anime is made.
What you are proposing is eliminate most anime and closing many studios that depend on that anime to keep alive.

I can definitely think of some cultural differences between Japan and the rest of the world that can result in different things being popular too. One example is Final Fantasy: All the Bravest, a mobile game with randomly-generated DLC, which can include duplicates. In Japan, people are used to UFO Catchers and they don't mind so much. In countries where claw machines have a bad reputation (or outright illegal, like some provinces of Canada), it's viewed as gambling without a payout, especially since paid DLC itself is already on shaky moral ground.

Here in the United States, and I'm sure elsewhere too, there are vendors who sell opened blind-box and blind-bag figures and individual CCG cards at a significant markup. They earn a living solely by doing this (but they'll sell unopened ones too if a customer wants one) because when we buy something, we don't want to leave it to chance.

Cutiebunny wrote:

They care when you outbid them on Yahoo Japan. I've received angry e-mails from several people that I've outbid once I displayed the items in my gallery. Some people can't move on.

Honestly, it doesn't bother me if people in the US or abroad like what I like. With 90+ anime shows a season, there's more than enough anime and manga for all of us.

To be fair, they'd probably care no matter what country they're from. But I think what you describe falls under the "if it concerns them" category.

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