Forum - View topicFlip Flappers (TV).
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15546 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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Episode 11
Despite everything that got explained, it feels like there is still a lot open to theorising. Like, why was Papika made into a child? Might it be like what we heard from the nice Mimi that she maybe knew she was a bit out of control? Mimi is changing reality with Real Illusion, but had she done it before something happened but what physically happened to Mimi? High tech devices seemed to be used before to connect with Real Illusion, but Salt had Papika and Cocona use something more rudimentary, and the other side was less grounded. The first real illusion was used with the snow land, which maybe seems the most tied to Cocona herself, while Mimi is more tied to flowers. Maybe something about their differences? Especially with the scene that Mimi tried to make Cocona look like her. |
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Chiibi
 Posts: 4829 |
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I hope the final episodes explain what Papika's obsession with Cocona is. Because that's my main issue with the show; she showed up out of nowhere going "I WUV YOU, PARTNER!" and I'm like "......ok.....why?" lol
If they don't explain that, it's really going to feel like Cocona's just a Mimi replacement. Nyunyu is annoying. lol She may as well be a pokemon. Papika sobbing kinda got me in the feels. D: |
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DuskyPredator
Posts: 15546 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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Yeah, she was an odd one. They referred to her both as the Third Child, and as a robot. In the episode though her attitude had me thinking that perhaps she was an attempt to copy Papika, only it only worked to make her kind of annoying. |
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Galap
Moderator
 Posts: 2354 |
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I only made a couple of posts about this show early on, and then stopped. This was for several reasons.
The first, and least interesting, was that my TV bit the dust so I fell behind and had to catch up later when I replaced it. The other is that I haven't really known what to say about this show. I'm enjoying it tremendously, and that's partially because my feelings are so complex about it. From this show, I've learned a bit about my own tastes and become able to put some vague things I've known about my tastes into words: The more frustrating a work of fiction is along certain demensions, the more I tend to like it. And I don't mean things that are frustrating because they're annoying, boring, stupid, etc. What I mean is that I like things where there are developments that are off-putting, or I see things developing in a direction that I don't 'like', as in, seeing things fall apart for the characters in some sense, or break my expectations. I also mean that I like things that challenge me, where I have to think a lot about them and don't always get where they're coming from. Flip Flappers is really like that for me. I feel like I'm going to have to watch this again to really understand everything it's saying. And maybe that won't be enough. And it's really 'flip flapping' (if you pardon the pun) between hitting notes that resonate really strongly with me and leaving me scratching my head about what it's really trying to say. And that combination is about the best place a work of fiction can be for me. It's also made references to things that I was previously unaware of, for example the concept of a Hyperart Thomasson, which is a man-made object or structure that used to have a purpose, but has lost that purpose due to changes that have been made to itse environment. The two-layer cabinet that Papika and Cocona sometimes go into to enter pure illusion is called that Thomasson, and there are seveal Thomassons at the flip-flap base, like the weird half staircase they have to climb over every time, Papika's pipe, or the door to nowhere that Sayuri and Hidaka exit out of in this latest episode. But it's clear that in the context of the show the fact that the cabinet is being called the Thomasson means that it is in some sense superfluous: the girls can (and do) get to Pure Illusion without it. So going there really must only depend on the state of mind of the traveller. And in general, whatever a Thomasson is, it's referred to as a 'pure ____', like a useless sidewalk is a Pure Sidewalk, and that door would be a Pure Door. This makese sense, since with the function of the object removed, it's become more basic and 'pure' in a sense, in that all that's left is its form, which is to be appreciated for its own merits, hence 'hyperart'. That somehow goes with all the episode titles being terms for audio/video stuff with 'Pure' appended to them. I'm still woking on the meaning of this. Maybe that's the true nature of Pure Illusion: it used to have a purpose at some point in the past, but times have changed and the context around it has changed, and now now it's just kind of...there. And now any excursion or adventure into it is purely a personal journey. And I really like things that are covertly disturbing and unsettling rather than overtly so, which this thing's got in spades. For an example from this latest episode, seeing Mimi, this normally gentle and innocent person murdering people by turning them into clover with her mind is distressing in a really unique way. There are 2(?) more episodes here, so I may be getting ahead of myself a little bit, but I think I finally can verbalize what Flip Flappers is saying with its characters and their arcs. I think that there's something specific going on with the clover. I think flowers do have a large role in this as DuskyPredator said, but flowers seem to be a recurring motif in this in general, but white clover in specific is what is associated with Mimi. The clover field is the setting for many of Mimi's best memories, like the first time she went outside, or when she, Salt, and Papikana were pushing each other into the lake. And that's why it's the landscape of the realm of Pure Illusion that's linked to her mind. Is this maybe saying that what is the deepest layer, the deepest and most vulnerable fortification of the self is essentially whatever the best part of them is? Or is it just saying that people mostly see the best of themselves? I'm not sure. The traditional meaning that is conveyed with white clover is 'think of me', or the concept of a promise. So it makes sense that Salt, Mimi, and Papikana's relationship is forged on the field of white clover, and sealed with the crown of white clover. It's a promise of support, a promise of fidelity and alliance. The white clover also has a bit of a darker meaning, though, and one that goes hand in hand with the first meaning. White clover also conveys the connotation of revenge for broken or forgotton promises. So what we see makes total sense there too, that Mimi and Salt break their bond on the same field of white clover, and Mimi kills the lab-cultists by turning them into white clover. To me, that's the worst thing about dealing with corruption in people's or organizations' motivations, and participating in a society or organization where you have significant disagreements or complaints about its values. It can sour you in a very specific kind of way, it has this very selective way of ruining all the best moments, or at least trying its damnedest to. Mimi's entire world is the organization, and all the best and worst of her life is contained in it, from her imprisonment to her dives into Pure Illusion to her forming bonds with Salt and Papikana, along with her first tastes of freedom. So it makes sense for her to have really mixed emotions and motivations. What you do may be so beautiful and motivating, but other factors like the integrity of the people around you make matters more complicated. Sometimes it's hard to know whether you should continue what you doing, and hard to know if you really can enjoy what you are doing. Did Salt's father 'deserve' what happened to him (on both counts? Was he the lead cultist as well?) for controlling the lives of the test subjects? Does anyone really 'deserve' anything? For that matter, to what extent is everyone justified in their actions? Was Cocona justified in her "I hate you." to Papika? I think you're supposed to decide for yourself. I'd leant to saying no, but I think the point is that there are very few things that are completely one-sided. From Cocona's perspective, all the relationships she had with people, all the things she created and work she did, and you could even say her entire life was only created and allowed to exist because other people wanted something from her-- something that wasn't the core of her self or identity: they didn't want her for her, they wanted her for the amorphous, to be a replacement of Mimi, etc. It's hard to imagine that not feeling like an ultimate, crushing, conspiratorial betrayal. And it's not like she's wrong about that being the situation. However, she is overlooking the fact that other people, like Yayaka and Papika, and her grandmother did end up coming to care for Cocona herself, as in the source of her volition and choice. But it would be easy to dismiss that as lies or even self-deception on their part.In a sense, people are complicated, and the patterns that drive their behavior are complicated. But complicated is different than nuanced. Your instincts are fairly complicated, but don't have much coded in them in the way of attention to nuance. Let me explain: To me, the biggest lesson that makes up the core of what I would call 'growing up' is the realization that it takes a lot of conscious effort to operate in ways other than your most primal, basal, default level. And that you don't get to call yourself by default a 'good' person who is just and right in everything that you do. The episode with the helmet is probably the most obvious manifestation of this idea, but there are other, more subtle ones, like the "I hate you." from Cocona. Operating on her default level, Cocona is not a good person. She's not a bad person either, though. She has the potential and capacity to choose to do good or bad things, and just operating as she does by default, she's made both kinds of decisions. If she wants to end up going beyond her shortcomings and becoming a better person, she has to put a conscious effort into making the choices that align with the standards of good. And this whole thing can be a really difficult and painful lesson to learn. I'm not sure how many people really learn it. And I think for as much as Cocona is wiser and more stable than Papika and Yayaka, I think the latter two understand this while Cocona does not. Mimi appears to be in the process of learning this lesson, with a part of her that 'gets it', and a part of her that doesn't. |
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 24034 |
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Very interesting analysis, Galap. I always find it fascinating to see what jibes with viewers and what doesn't. There is still a ton about this show that I don't understand and maybe I'll understand more by the end and maybe I won't. At least I finally have enough information to have a general sense of what this show is about on a plot level. I was finding it frustrating - and not in a good way for me - to not have a grip on that. I have long suspected I will enjoy this show more during a rewatch - assuming such a thing ever takes place - when I can watch the earlier episodes without be frustrated about trying to figure what is going on.
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Chiibi
Posts: 4829 |
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Yes, I totally got EVA flashbacks with that one. 
This whole thing feels so GAINAX or Trigger....and there's a little Miyazaki thrown in there for good measure..... |
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Galap
Moderator
Posts: 2354 |
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Something else interesting that I just thought of:
It's pretty funny that the characters end up using all the Thomassons: the named Thomasson cabinet is used as the place Papika and Cocona go to enter Pure Illusion. The weird stairs and stuff on the wall in Flip Flap base are turned into traps when the organization invades. HIdaka and Sayuri escape the base out the door Thomasson. Papika makes the abandoned pipe into her dwelling. Papika sitting on the spiral staircase to nowhere. I think that's a real great irony since the definition of a Thomasson is something where the use is gone and only the form remains. |
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Chiibi
Posts: 4829 |
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Yayaka's transformation was awesome!! I wasn't sure what hair color she was going to get but the lime green suits her!
I hope Cocona can have a normal happy family end....I'm worried Mimi will sacrifice herself or something to save her daughter... 
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DuskyPredator
Posts: 15546 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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Yeah, I thought the green was matching too. It was pretty good seeing a return of earlier parts.
A little interesting that that the last episode is being called Pure Audio and a lot of what looked like story boards were shown. |
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Chiibi
Posts: 4829 |
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Cute end.
Glad there was no blatant yuri going on. 
(tumblr will be quite upset though LOL) |
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DuskyPredator
Posts: 15546 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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Episode 13 (finale)
What is real life, and what is fantasy? It is a question still left open because the episode actually played with it. The world Cocona finds herself in towards the end fits the sort of observations I made earlier, the world they had been in up to now had a number of dream like qualities, which contradict the grounding of a few flashback events. And so Cocona wakes up everything seems a little more dim coloured in comparison. Noting the Mad Max poster on the wall like desert world episode like an inspiration to that event, there is plain news, the wacky professor is just crazy, the school looks normal, Uexkull looks like a proper rabbit. It all seems to make sense here, even if it is boring. But then it gets turned on its head, that this is just another Pure Illusion, like maybe one Cocona made, for being normal perhaps? Looking back on the series, I can admit a feeling of disappointment a little, and I think that stems from a little disconnect about what the series was really about. Early episodes especially had the focus just on the friendship/relationship between Cocona and Papika, context of symbolism could be picked up from surrounding events, but there was a shift that seemed to make the symbolism a little hard to pick, and it was not necesarilly what else was happening in the episode. There was a goal, but to be honest we were not really told what the goal was. And the last few episodes showed that it was largely about Mimi, or Cocona and her mother, and the line between them was a little hard to distinct, especially with Papika. Right now I feel like the series would require a full analysis beyond what I could just pull off, I feel like I am missing something and that things flew over my head, like what does the yuri boarding school mean with Mimi? What was even the purpose of Papika waking up as a child, being greeted by Cocona who talks about her being a baby and an old lady? Episodes like the alternate Papikas one only works with the story being more about how Cocona feels about Papika. It may sound like trying to make it about yuri, but homosexual relationships between girls. Or at least relationships with females in general with friends, seniors, mothers and grandmothers. Apart from that is also the thoughts of the relationship between Cocona, Mimi, and Salt (her father). Only really came to me that setting aside the fake grandmother, the crazy cult guy was actually Cocona’s grandfather. I do think it was nice that Salt automatically rejected the idea that he could get a reset option as he refused to forget mistakes he made, but also ask for forgiveness from Mimi. I am going with a rating of Very good (8/10), seeing it as a little bit of a jumbled piece it is what I feel is fitting. I can’t quite now tell if the jumbled pieces are part of a single puzzle or multiple puzzle sets that don’t quite connect with each other in a smooth way. |
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Chiibi
Posts: 4829 |
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Caught in a landslide, no escape from reality?
Had to. I had to. ...............oh no. I'm turning into my DAD!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! 
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DuskyPredator
Posts: 15546 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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I admit, I had to hold back from doing the lines myself.
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Galap
Moderator
Posts: 2354 |
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Woah.
So this is done. Well, I think I'll ultimately have a lot of things to say about the series as a whole, but I'm still processing that for now. The first thing I thought after the episode ended was that I should watch Flip Flappers again sometime, probably sometime pretty soon. Maybe then I'll have better-formed global thoughts. About the final episode in specific, I was really interested in how after Cocona goes back to the 'real' world, everything is mundane; all the dream-like aspects of her ordinary world have changed: Bu is a backhoe, uexkull is a normal rabbit, the uniforms are more drab, etc. and she's closed off from Pure Illusion. I thought that it was trying to say that growing up results in you losing your sense of wonder and imagination. But then that ended up not being the 'real' world after all, and Papika rescues Cocona to her more familiar reality, and it turns out that 'realistic' place was another Pure Illusion all along. Initially I was annoyed at that, since I tend not to like bait-and-switch tactics in fiction, but upon reflection, I think it's really interesting. I think what it's ultimately saying is that there is no place that is not real, there are just different locations in the multiverse, and those with the right frame of mind can traverse them. Like Cocona actually did seem to go 'out' of the pure illusion with Mimi and into the 'realistic' one. And that means the realistic place was just as real as anywhere else, including all the fantastical-seeming Pure Illusions we've seen so far. and Cocona's state of mind at the time took her to somewhere that was very remote, far from where whatever powers travel in Pure Illusion can easily reach. But such a place is still just another location in the multiverse, only one that we happen to be more familiar with, and with Papika's help, she's able to go home for real. |
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