Forum - View topicINTEREST: Sony Apologizes for Keyakizaka46 Idol Group's Nazi-Like Costumes
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NGK
Posts: 244 |
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more like it's the soviet-era they gonna try to idolize next 
also: http://www.japantimes.co.jp/life/2016/11/02/food/tokyos-first-russian-style-maid-cafe/
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Deacon Blues
Posts: 395 Location: Albuquerque, NM |
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Soooo it's wrong for an Idol group to have something resembling Nazi attire yet it's okay for it to grace manga pages and pop up on screen in live action, anime and video games because those are "fake"? Double standards much, Japan?
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Snomaster1
 SubscriberPosts: 2875 |
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In my view,Sony did the right thing by apologizing. But,it's also shameful that Japan chooses to gloss over the just horrific atrocities that were committed by them during World War II. You can hardly blame Japan's neighbors for being upset with them. They've never really apologized for what had happened. And they continue to do this. Is it any wonder that China does these over the top shows that bashes the Japanese? Or that South Korea bans stuff that even hints of Japanese culture?
I wouldn't be surprised is that there are those in much of Asia who feel that the Americans were too kind to the Japanese at the end of the war. Unfortunately,the Japanese aren't exactly helping themselves here. By continuing to deny what had happened during the war and doing stuff like this,they continue to see to it that no real healing take place. Imagine for a second that someone in Japan tried to do a manga or something that tried to convince Americans that they were on the wrong side of the war. That we should have sided with them and not the Allies. To call something like that controversial would be the understatement of the year. It wouldn't just be insulting to the intelligence of Americans,thinking that we'd fall for something like this because there are anime and manga fans in America. Not only that but it would also be insulting to those throughout Asia who had suffered under Japanese occupation. To me,Sony did the right thing by apologizing. But,Japan is only hurting itself by not openly and honestly dealing with what had happened during World War II. All of this will continue to haunt Japan until a legitimate and honest apology is given. No weasel words. Just an honest and heartfelt apology and an honest examination of Japan's wartime behavior. Stupid stuff like this isn't going to help. Last edited by Snomaster1 on Thu Nov 03, 2016 7:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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NGK
Posts: 244 |
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Like I said in the previous post, Japan places far more importance forward-looking tasks like rigorous STEM education and school clubs, and that's why they are perennial top performers in OECD PISA tests. And let's not forget that Japanese high school students are still learning how to read/write/recognize general use kanji. What use is "critical thinking" in social studies class when you still barely know the basics to become fully literate. To them there's no time to dwell too much in great detail about the distant past. It's simply not productive and take away little fun time they have left (you know... like consuming manga/anime/game etc etc). The rest of Asia has moved on like Philippines and Indonesia. Why can't Korea and China. Previous leaders in Japan have expressed regrets and given out aid for the umpteenth time. China and Korea reciprocated by creating Japan-bashing industry in the 90s by the former (even though Japan and China already reconciliated and were in good terms in the 70s & 80s), and extracting more money & aid by the latter (under the guise of "this to the nth degree of apology is not enough!" meme). I recall Japan's Prime Minister speech back in August. He sounded exasperated near the end when he finally said it out loud - "We must not let our children, grandchildren, and even further generations to come, who have nothing to do with that war, be predestined to apologize." |
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Daemonblue
 Posts: 701 |
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It has a name and it's not "the nazi eagle," or "the bird emblem," it's https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reichsadler . It's the Imperial Eagle based off of those from Roman times, same with the "nazi salute" which is just the Roman salute. If you go on labeling anything that has any ties to that era of Germany as "Nazi" then you'll have a long list of things that can no longer be used because it may "offend" someone. If you're going to find something offensive then at least know what it's called. Also, these same people complaining about the outfits aren't only attacking the outfits but the singers themselves, calling them "teeny-boppers" and "helium voiced." |
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Afezeria
 Posts: 817 Location: Malaysia, Kuantan. |
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Last edited by Afezeria on Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:05 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Mad_Scientist
 SubscriberModerator  Posts: 3011 |
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Hey, did you happen to look at the examples of the eagle given on that wikipedia page before you tried to "correct" me about this being a Nazi symbol?
Notice, if you will, how drastically different the Nazi version is from every other version there, including the current version used by Germany? Notice also which version was used on the hats? 
They even include the circle underneath the eagle, though at least they didn't go as far as to include the swastika inside it. But there is no mistaking this symbol. It is the Nazi version of the eagle, clear as day. EDIT: I actually just realized that in fact this isn't even the Reichsadler. To quote Wikipedia: "During Nazi rule, a stylised eagle combined with the Nazi swastika was made the national emblem (Hoheitszeichen) by order of Adolf Hitler in 1935. Despite its mediæval origin, the term "Reichsadler" in common English understanding is mostly associated with this specific Nazi era version. The Nazi Party had used a very similar symbol for itself, called the Parteiadler ("Party's eagle"). These two insignia can be distinguished as the Reichsadler looks to its right shoulder whereas the Parteiadler looks to its left shoulder." The hats have a Parteiadler, albeit with the swastika replaced with a triangle. And even if it had been the Reichsadler, it is clearly the Nazi version of it. So yes, this is in fact an explicitly Nazi symbol, please stop pretending its not. I will say that personal attacks on the idols themselves are uncalled for and gross. Doubt they're too blame for what happened anyways, and the people who are to blame have apologized, so I don't this is really a huge issue other than as an example of a larger trend of Japan trying to gloss over and forget the past. |
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Stuart Smith
 Posts: 1298 |
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In China and Korea's case jealousy is also a part of it, but the fact of the matter for some people no amount of apologies will ever be enough in their eyes. That quote you quoted illustrates it perfectly how people who were never even involved in a war are expected to apologize is absurd. Japan lacks the white guilt mentality that some Americans have, so the idea that Japan does not spend every waking moment on their knees begging for forgiveness is weird to some people who think if you are white you are personally responsible for everything bad that has happened to minorities, even if you yourself never did anything. I can't imagine being so self-loathing. I am personally interested in knowing how many Jewish people in Japan complained about this compared to how many westerners complained about it on behalf of the Japanese people. Also would be interested in knowing how many of them even knew of this group before this controversy. Either way it's a shame because the custome were interesting. -Stuart Smith |
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Mad_Scientist
Subscriber Moderator Posts: 3011 |
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According to Wikipedia, Japan has about 2000 Jewish people, total, in the entire country. That's about 0.0016% of the population. Pretty sure this fact is gonna skew any numbers regarding how many Jewish people from Japan complained. |
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AnimeLordLuis
 Posts: 1626 Location: The Borderlands of Pandora |
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Well it's good that Sony apologized for the incident and although those uniforms only slightly resemble actual Nazi uniforms there was no cause for the kind of outrage that it caused on the internet but unfortunately in this PC age we live in even the smallest spark can start a massive forest fire in this day and age.
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silentjay
Posts: 304 |
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Wow... Just... wow... False equivalency much? It's one thing to have fictional Nazis in a work of fiction, and it's a completely different thing to dress up as one for a holiday celebration. Hell, even most WW2 reinactors skip the Nazi regalia, and they're really anal when it comes to historical accuracy. As an aside, I don't think I've seen so many dog whistles been blown in a single thread here before. It's like all the apologists are crawling out of tge woodwork. |
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Daemonblue
Posts: 701 |
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I'm just saying call it by its name, not "that there nazi thing," or "that bird symbol." If you're going to claim something's a hate symbol then at least know its name, otherwise it looks silly when you write about it. @Animorphimagi https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Boss Don't know if they do anything modern that looks like it but that's the fashion designer that dealt with the original uniforms. I'm sure if you really wanted to get that look it wouldn't be too hard all things considered, but don't be surprised if people look at you weirdly. |
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DearSayAnime
Posts: 2 |
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So lets talk history
 . How about the living native americans you know the few that live and apolagize to them for the centries long genicige our presidents have caused them ooooh wait thats our oun history lets ignore that and attack other countries misdeeds and continue to celibrate columbus day
Fashon is its own world and clothing and icons are borrowed and recycled through history Im not good at writing my thoughts but if you wete interested in our own bark history we have lots and all we do is wave it off as history just like japan waves ww2 germany off as history not something to thank about with everything you do Really it was a fashion statement not the next natzi age |
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Errinundra
Moderator
 Posts: 6561 Location: Melbourne, Oz |
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silentjay is right: the dog-whistles are being blown.
If you have something hateful to say then take it elsewhere. You're not welcome here. |
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BadNewsBlues
Posts: 6188 |
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This point is interesting as I seem to recall some in Japan during his last visit some expected Obama to apologize for the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. So it's clear some in Japan haven't moved on themselves from certain things.....not that they should completely, but still. |
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